UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / Is space infinite?
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 17:58:54
Is space infinite? I don't do science so i can't get very technical with this topic and would like to know if space is infinite. I think that it is, but can be hard to believe.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 18:46:26
It is hard to believe, but I think it is!~ ^_^
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:09:21
I think it isn't. So we're in the third dimension right? And think of space and all the galaxy and stars as if their located in a box. Wuts outside of the box? I think its the fourth dimension. So, simply outside of space is the fourth dimension.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:21:12
LightSpinner wrote: I think it isn't. So we're in the third dimension right? And think of space and all the galaxy and stars as if their located in a box. Wuts outside of the box? I think its the fourth dimension. So, simply outside of space is the fourth dimension.
Not quite. This video explains up to the 10th dimension... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY_ZgAvXsuw -
Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:46:02
The answer is: Science has not answered this question yet. Everything in this topic will be conjecture. Some of it may have loose evidence to back it up, but it is conjecture none the less. My personal opinion is no.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:47:16
IF it is not infinite then what happens at the end a dropoff and is that infinite and if so that would mean that space is infinite seeing as you ran into that drop-off in space.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:50:02
juggalo666666 wrote: IF it is not infinite then what happens at the end a dropoff and is that infinite and if so that would mean that space is infinite seeing as you ran into that drop-off in space.
There is no need for a drop off. Space is not like a table you can 'walk off'. It's very hard to explain, but space can wrap back around on itself. You cannot travel to an edge, because there is no edge. -
Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:51:07
Mats wrote: There is no need for a drop off. Space is not like a table you can 'walk off'. It's very hard to explain, but space can wrap back around on itself. You cannot travel to an edge, because there is no edge.
NOTICE the IF in all caps, I was speaking from a hypothetical stand-point space is without a doubt infinite. -
Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 19:53:17
juggalo666666 wrote: NOTICE the IF in all caps, I was speaking from a hypothetical stand-point space is without a doubt infinite.
I was merely explaining that if someone is of the opinion that space is not infinite, it is perfectly plausible for space to wrap around on itself. Space is not without doubt infinite. -
Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 20:09:34
for me, space is infinite...but I think if we travel faster than speed of light. We might jump into another dimention, or the "edge" of space. Shit I don't make sense.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 20:43:18
The universe we are living in is expanding at the speed of light. Even though there is a massive black hole in the center of it pulling most atoms in it's direction. For mass it is impossible to surpass the speed of light meaning we cannot fly to the edge of our universe. Getting outside the universe might be possible though if we manage to bend our 3 dimensional space inside the fourth dimension. That would allow us to jump outside the space of the universe to see what's outside. I think outside the universe is an infinite space which is like a super vacuum. The ,,normal'' vacuum outside of the planet's atmoshpere's still contains some atoms, radiation, etc etc, but outside the universe there is complete nothingness which is why the universe expands at the highest speed possible. Expanding into the available space is a attribute of matter after all. Just some of the theory I thought of when I was bored. :P
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 21:24:39
what if thinking universe as a big planet? there is no edge, and going extremely far would get you back to the starting point? just like earth itself... just a much bigger version. and if you think it that way each planet in the universe would be.. each "land" on earth. i dunno i haven't slept last night so i might be bullshitting myself really.. Frog~
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 21:58:49
We have to talk about two things then: observable universe and entire universe in general the statement that the universe is expanding at the speed of light is, simply put, wrong - it in fact expands faster As in, our observable universe has a diameter of almost 100 billion light years, even though the universe is approx. 13.7 billion years old. really i don't see the point in discussing the question, as the universe we can observe is very finite, and everything after that point is a mere thought from romantic point of view. That is, whether the thought of finite or infinite universe gives you a larger boner.
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Date: Wed, Jan 18 2012 23:38:28
Froggy wrote: what if thinking universe as a big planet? there is no edge, and going extremely far would get you back to the starting point?
So,if you keep going to the same place,would it still be considered infinite? -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 01:13:08
@Froggy: This is what they use for some astrological maps as a basis to draw star constellations on.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 01:13:26
My theory, is that our universe is like a 3d pacman. Consider this the game of life. In the game of life, if you go off any one edge, you will be brought to the opposite edge of the universe. so basically, if i move from the very top of a sphere, i will be moved to the very bottom, just like how in pacman if you go off the left, you move to the right. Also, i've read a few people who mention other dimensions outside of our own, or moving fast enough to escape our dimension. I believe that all dimensions occupy the same space, its just that we can only see the dimension we are at and those lesser than it. other dimensional objects aren't invisible to us, but we simply cannot move or in the extra direction required to comprehend those higher dimension objects, in the same way a 2d object cant move or see in the 3rd dimension.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 01:43:34
I personally think space is infinite. Some scientists say it's getting bigger everyday. Quantum scientists have there own theories on this too. No true answer yet. I watch nova.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:02:20
Yes, as you're just going around the loop. Think it in a smaller scale, earth. If you keep flying to brazil, would you consider it infinite? Because there is no actual starting point for a sphere, there is no ending point the only way u could argue back is if u set ur own starting point (and ending point), then it wont be infinite. eg: from brazil around the globe once, back to brazil = starting point brazil, ending point brazil. not infinite but universe doesnt have a starting point the only arguable starting point would be the center of the universe, just like the core of earth AKA the point where the big bang happened. (big bang spread outward, creating a "sphere" around it too ;)) but is that point reachable? if universe is a sphere, that means we're moving ON it, not able to move IN it. Frog~ p.s. I still havent gone to bed so I might be bullshitting myself again.
DArKT wrote: So,if you keep going to the same place,would it still be considered infinite?
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:04:38
Penz3160 wrote: I personally think space is infinite. Some scientists say it's getting bigger everyday. Quantum scientists have there own theories on this too. No true answer yet. I watch nova.
if space is infinite and getting bigger, then is infinite getting bigger? -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:10:29
Infinite has no limit. Maybe not getting bigger but expanding. Anyone read about how other universes a drifting away from the milky way? That could be evidence that it's expanding. Much more distance between than a previous year. (It might also contrast. Just a theory)
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:19:04
LightSpinner wrote: if space is infinite and getting bigger, then is infinite getting bigger?
I thought it was galaxies are getting farther away from each other but they have infinite space to do so in. -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:26:11
infinite cannot expand or increase in size. thats like saying infinite + 1. if u can + 1 to infinite, that infinite is NOT infinite. therefore, if you believe that the universe/space is expanding, its not infinite. Frog~
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:34:30
@strat1227: I can't believe you guys forgot to call in UPSB's resident physicist.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 02:58:29
I read a stephen hawking book. From what i can get, space has boundaries. However, it is impossible to fall of or crash into a wall. Think of like walking around the earth. You could walk forever but nerver fall off.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 03:09:48
As far as the current understand of the universe goes, it is not known whether the universe is infinite or not. However, space itself is curved (believe or not) and should the universe be finite than observations would tells us it's a loop (for example, the universe could be like the three-dimensional surface of a four-dimensional sphere). There's another important concept to bring up though, called the event horizon. Space, due to inflation, has overall expanded faster than the speed of light (this is allowed, because the speed of light is defined only within space, space itself can do whatever it wants). Thus, there is a distance at which no light could have traveled to us because the age of the universe would not have given it time to reach us. That means nothing, not even the gravitation attraction of a single atom outside that horizon could have influenced anything within our world. Let alone aliens. That leads to the question, does it matter if the universe is infinite? As a scientific-minded person I'll say yes, but it is merely for intellectual curiosity. Oh, and think of the implications of an infinite universe. Inside the milky way, there might be 10^1000 atoms. Each of them can be located at, say, 10^10000 positions within the milky way. That allows for (10^10000)^(10^1000) possible configurations for the arrangement of those atoms within the space of the milky way. But compared to infinity, that number is no bigger than one. If the universe is infinite, than somewhere far far away there will necessarily be a region of space with the exact same number and arrangement of atoms at that of the milky way. Meaning that somewhere far far away, there will be a person just like me, writing the same post on UPSB. In fact, there will be a infinite number of me in an infinite universe.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 03:13:52
Froggy wrote: infinite cannot expand or increase in size. thats like saying infinite + 1. if u can + 1 to infinite, that infinite is NOT infinite. therefore, if you believe that the universe/space is expanding, its not infinite. Frog~
I see. Nice explanation. Space is infinitely expanding? Meaning it will not stop expanding. -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 03:38:11
if its not then everything we now will not be true
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 08:30:04
ChainBreak;169047]The universe we are living in is expanding at the speed of light. Even though there is a massive black hole in the center of it pulling most atoms in it's direction. [/quote] None of that is true. It is expanding faster than light and not only is there no black hole at the centre of the universe, but there is no centre of the universe!
What? :?For mass it is impossible to surpass the speed of light meaning we cannot fly to the edge of our universe. Getting outside the universe might be possible though if we manage to bend our 3 dimensional space inside the fourth dimension.
lol what does this even mean? :?Expanding into the available space is a attribute of matter after all.
Not in all situations. [QUOTE=Penz3160;169092]Some scientists say it's getting bigger everyday.[/QUOTE] It is getting bigger, constantly. Edwin Hubble first discovered this. In the early 20th century I believe. Only a crazy scientist would argue against this point. [QUOTE=LightSpinner;169098]if space is infinite and getting bigger, then is infinite getting bigger?[/QUOTE] Well you can think of space as a giant grid. There are not more squares being added to the grid, but rather, each square of the grid is being made larger. So in a way, the infinite would not be getting bigger (if it is indeed infinite). There are theories that information will eventually become 'fuzzy' as time passes, since each square in the grid will have to hold more and more information within it. [QUOTE=Penz3160;169099]Anyone read about how other universes a drifting away from the milky way?[/QUOTE] No? This doesn't even make sense, since the Milky Way is within the universe. Perhaps what you mean is other galaxies drifting away from the Milky Way? There is also at least one galaxy headed straight for us too (Andromeda)! [QUOTE=Awesome;169106]I thought it was galaxies are getting farther away from each other but they have infinite space to do so in.[/QUOTE] Everything is getting further from each other. Every single thing in the universe. It is just that since the distance between galaxies is so large, the effect is much more noticeable. And do they have infinite space in which to do so? No-one knows. [QUOTE=Froggy;169110]infinite cannot expand or increase in size. thats like saying infinite + 1. if u can + 1 to infinite, that infinite is NOT infinite. therefore, if you believe that the universe/space is expanding, its not infinite. [/QUOTE] Not true. You can get infinities of different sizes. Try looking up the works of Georg Cantor. [QUOTE=Advecticity;169118]As far as the current understand of the universe goes, it is not known whether the universe is infinite or not. However, space itself is curved (believe or not) and should the universe be finite than observations would tells us it's a loop (for example, the universe could be like the three-dimensional surface of a four-dimensional sphere). There's another important concept to bring up though, called the event horizon. Space, due to inflation, has overall expanded faster than the speed of light (this is allowed, because the speed of light is defined only within space, space itself can do whatever it wants). Thus, there is a distance at which no light could have traveled to us because the age of the universe would not have given it time to reach us. That means nothing, not even the gravitation attraction of a single atom outside that horizon could have influenced anything within our world. Let alone aliens. That leads to the question, does it matter if the universe is infinite? As a scientific-minded person I'll say yes, but it is merely for intellectual curiosity. Oh, and think of the implications of an infinite universe. Inside the milky way, there might be 10^1000 atoms. [/quote] Far too large an estimate, but never mind.Meaning that somewhere far far away, there will be a person just like me, writing the same post on UPSB. In fact, there will be a infinite number of me in an infinite universe.
Not correct. There would be an infinite number of you in a universe of infinite size and mass. The key thing here is size and mass. The mass of the universe is not infinite, so this is not true. [QUOTE=Penz3160;169120]I see. Nice explanation. Space is infinitely expanding? Meaning it will not stop expanding.[/QUOTE] It appears at the moment, that the rate of expansion is accelerating! [QUOTE=funnky wrote: if its not then everything we now will not be true -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 12:43:21
Mats wrote: Not correct. There would be an infinite number of you in a universe of infinite size and mass. The key thing here is size and mass. The mass of the universe is not infinite, so this is not true.
Add infinite time to what he said and then it is pretty much correct and about one infinity being bigger than the other, think about it this way: the amount of rational numbers between 1 and 2 are obviously larger than between 1 and 1.1 , however it is infinite in both cases Also when making up theories like these that aren't always based on real physics, keep in mind that universe is often counter-intuitive, so watch out. -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 12:51:12
This is fascinating. Will read everything when I have the time.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 12:53:55
Raem wrote: Add infinite time to what he said and then it is pretty much correct
Also not true, since matter clumps together and seems to follow a certain 'life' (which would be ever heading towards iron). After which, it is postulated simply to decay. If you were to add infinite time and matter reacts totally randomly, then yes you get every possible scenario with that amount of matter. However, matter reacts in an essentially non random way (heading for stability), not totally at random. -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 13:52:37
Mats wrote: Also not true, since matter clumps together and seems to follow a certain 'life' (which would be ever heading towards iron). After which, it is postulated simply to decay. If you were to add infinite time and matter reacts totally randomly, then yes you get every possible scenario with that amount of matter. However, matter reacts in an essentially non random way (heading for stability), not totally at random.
Matter acts at random and thus statistical outcomes dominate. Matter heads for disorder (greater entropy), and not "stability". -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 13:54:42
Awesome wrote: Matter acts at random and thus statistical outcomes dominate. Matter heads for disorder (greater entropy), and not "stability".
I'm talking about formation of elements. If all matter tends to iron (stable), you can't have all possibilities being played out. -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 14:02:28
Matter would tend to being energy (high entropy) then being matter like iron (low entropy) from a thermodynamic point of view.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 15:41:02
There are different concepts of infinity.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 16:36:06
There is only one.....you mean that there are different concepts of the breadth of space and to what that would entail.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 16:42:43
N.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 17:05:54
What? If you mean like, countably, uncountably, theories regarding what infinity entails then yeah there could be different ideas for it, but Infinity, at least in terms of the theoretical/mathematical nature of it, isn't really subjective
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 17:36:54
If time was created at the start of the universe, which it was, then as it is the 4th dimension it has a beginning and could possibly have an end, which would be its restrictions. Start------End. If a dimension can start and end, like time, then it is not infinite. By applying this principle to the three dimensions we see, you generate a box limit.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 20:07:53
We don't know when the universe actually started. If you're referring to the big bang theory: the date calculated is the point in time in which any event before is indistinguishable, not the absolute beginning of the universe as you assumed. Thus your premise is questionable.
eurocracy wrote: If time was created at the start of the universe, which it was, then as it is the 4th dimension it has a beginning and could possibly have an end, which would be its restrictions. Start------End. If a dimension can start and end, like time, then it is not infinite. By applying this principle to the three dimensions we see, you generate a box limit.
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 22:55:04
Best Answer:Someday somebody will be able to answer this question...this is driving me crazy..
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Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 23:07:07
DArKT wrote: Best Answer:Someday somebody will be able to answer this question...this is driving me crazy..
Science has no definitive answers for this yet, so, you are not going to get a definitive answer. Try to go crazy on something solvable. lol -
Date: Thu, Jan 19 2012 23:40:40
based on Edwin Hubble's work, space seems to be expanding, though it's not quite that simple, but for the sake of this discussion, lets say that space is expanding ever since the 'big bang'... then what is it expanding into??? What space is space expanding into?... Makes you think doesn't it? Perhaps space is finite, but matter and energy are shrinking at a rate that makes it look like the universe is expanding....wild idea, no?
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Date: Fri, Jan 20 2012 00:20:15
Hahnda wrote: Perhaps space is finite, but matter and energy are shrinking at a rate that makes it look like the universe is expanding....wild idea, no?
The measured masses and energies of things have never changed. -
Date: Fri, Jan 20 2012 15:26:36
Mats wrote: Science has no definitive answers for this yet, so, you are not going to get a definitive answer. Try to go crazy on something solvable. lol
Sorry,but definitvelly,Someday,somebody will have the answer.have you read what i wrote? and im pretty sure one day this is going to be solved -
Date: Fri, Jan 20 2012 15:36:25
it is not infinite, but expanding (according to big bang's logic)
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Date: Fri, Jan 20 2012 15:57:59
That's not what I said at all, the theory is that time did not exist BEFORE the big bang and therefore there would be no date other than zero, when the big bang happened is irrelevant under that theory.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 01:10:20
DArKT wrote: Sorry,but definitvelly,Someday,somebody will have the answer.have you read what i wrote? and im pretty sure one day this is going to be solved
Why should you say definately we will solve this? It is rather arragant to assume this. -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 02:00:57
Mats wrote: Why should you say definately we will solve this? It is rather arragant to assume this.
How can you say whe wont? its a 2 way answer... -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 02:07:24
He didnt' say that, he said science at the MOMENT has no definitive answers for it, so you aren't going to get some yes/no answer in this thread as that isn't possible.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 02:22:05
DArKT wrote: How can you say whe wont? its a 2 way answer...
I'm not saying we definately won't. Read what I wrote. You however, said we definately will, which I believe is rather arrangant of our ability. -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 03:39:20
i just read through this thread and wanted to clarify what some people seem to misunderstand. if the universe is in fact of finite size, it does not mean that no matter exists beyond a certain point; it means that SPACE doesn't exist at all beyond the "edge" of the universe. of course, this is just my understanding, and i am no astronomy/physics specialist
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 08:36:08
@blahblahting: and what would that imply? How do you imagine that matter in an area without space? also, some scientists think that even the fine-structure constant might differ throughout the universe/time. It's not a proven fact, but the point is, that even our observable universe confuses the shit out of people. Stop trying to say you know what lies beyond the last horizon
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 09:33:10
I think you misunderstood him @Raem . He wrote that there shouldn't be any space if it doesn't contain any matter. After all you cannot prove there's space when there's nothing inside. But I think the universe expands and if it does there has to be place or some space to expand into. So there has to be some kind of space outside the universe.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 12:38:47
ChainBreak wrote: if it does there has to be place or some space to expand into. So there has to be some kind of space outside the universe.
There doesn't. Just as there was no time before the big bang, there can be no space outside of space. Space is all that exists. It doesn't need to expand into anything. You guys need to stop applying 'logic' to this situation, because at this scale, the simple logic you have learnt so far in your life is almost totally useless. -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 14:00:48
Well this was not just anything I thought of. It's something my Math teacher told me some time ago. He's a doctor of science so I assume he picked it up at some skill enhancement meeting for teachers. And knowing that I think the people that thought up this stuff didn't just throw some stuff together and added some logic. As for time before the big bang: Afaik the big bang was caused by a huge mass of atoms collecting at one place, and the atoms in that singularity quickly expanding in all directions, then collecting again forming stars and planets. Knowing this there has to be time for the process of anything happening. So without time there is no process, because nothing can move without time so nothing can happen without time. Which means there has to have been some kind of time even before the big bang. So without time the big bang couldn't have possibly happened.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 14:09:25
ChainBreak wrote: and the atoms in that singularity quickly expanding in all directions.
You don't get atoms in a singularity. It also seems, that all forces, all energy and all matter were all combined at t = 0. It's very strange. Magnetism, gravity and the strong and weak nuclear forces, all inseperable. The entire 'mass' of the universe, collected in an infinitesimal point. Our knowledge of phyiscs can't even begin to touch this situation. Who the hell knows what could happen? -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 17:53:44
Well a singularity no matter how much mass it contains still remains a singularity. By what I know the gravity of a singularity is so strong that it even affects gamma radiation and light. Some say it also affect's time, but if it would how could we even notice? If all matter really was inside that singularity from which originated the big bang what could have possibly led to the big bang itself? If there is neither time nor any forces outside (maybe even inside) the singularity how can it break down and scatter matter ? What could possibly lead to a singularity suddenly expanding without anything affecting it's state? If you cant answer the questions you cant criticise my opinion. If you cannot prove I'm wrong, you cannot say that I am. Singularities, the beginning of the universe, the big bang this is all stuff neither you nor I know certain things about. All we can do is make assumptions based on the information available to us and process this knowledge with our logic. I could be wrong, I could also be not wrong. You cant say that I am, because you have no proof.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 18:16:55
ChainBreak wrote: Well a singularity no matter how much mass it contains still remains a singularity. By what I know the gravity of a singularity is so strong that it even affects gamma radiation and light. Some say it also affect's time, but if it would how could we even notice?
Gravity affects space-time itself. It is not a case of 'some say it also affects time', it definately definately does affect time, and space, and therefore, anything within time and space.If all matter really was inside that singularity from which originated the big bang what could have possibly led to the big bang itself?
This is a nonsense question to ask. You cannot ask 'what led to the big bang' because this assumes cause and effect. The big bang created cause and effect. 'before' the big bang, cause and effect does not exist.If there is neither time nor any forces outside (maybe even inside) the singularity how can it break down and scatter matter ? What could possibly lead to a singularity suddenly expanding without anything affecting it's state?
Break down is a strange term to use. It didn't breakdown, it expanded. What could lead to this? Again, this assumes cause and effect, which did not exist until the universe existed.If you cant answer the questions you cant criticise my opinion.
Answered some of them. I think the answer to the 'before the big bang' will forever be unanswered. How can our minds even begin to imagine a world without time, space or even cause or effect? It is not possible and we will never know the answer. The answer, if there is one, lies outside of our universe's laws. As for if space is infinite or not, I would say it is very unlikely we will ever get a definate answer on that. @ChainBreak -
Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 22:11:30
Well how can you prove that a singularity does affect time? How would you measure time in a singularity? If you cant measure time inside or at a range which would affect time you cannot say that a singularity affects time, because there is no way to prove this. We dont know what time is so how can we be sure that time is influenced by gravity. It's not clear therefore your statement is only a assumption. Furthermore if you say that cause and effect originated from the big bang there is again nothing to make the big bang happen. If there is no cause and effect how can there be anything happening? You wrote yourself that noone can know what was before the big bang. So how can you say that there was no sort of time or matter before the big bang? In your logic there is nothing aside the matter you know. What if there is stuff that is not the matter you know of and therefore not influenced by the time we know of ? That sort of stuff may have caused the big bang, because there was another way to make things happen even before the big bang. It's just a theory, but this seems a lot more logic to me than just saying everything originated from the big bang even though there is nothing to trigger the big bang itself. Also I dont see why breaking down would be such a weird word to use. If a singularity is highly compressed matter then it can break apart into it's individual parts thus breaking down. Afaik such phenomenons have already been sighted. A world without time is just motionless. Nothing happens. No cause no effect without time therefore nothing happening. No action no movement, simply a state of motionlessness. I don't find it that hard to imagine actually. A state of complete motionlessness could be quite interesting, even though we couldn't possibly perceive it in any way, because no time no action -> nothing to perceive. Also I think discussing this any further is a waste of time, because neither of us can prove what we're writing. After all there is no way for us to know anything specific about singularities. Everything we think we know is just assumptions based on the information we posses and processed by our logic. Therefore there is no way to know anything specific. We will never be able to make a completely true statement, because there is still no way for us to know anything about the universe except for a few tiny details.
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Date: Sat, Jan 21 2012 23:30:35
ChainBreak wrote: Well how can you prove that a singularity does affect time?
Strong gravity fields affect time. The stronger the gravity field, the slower time will pass, with time ever tending to zero. If you were to somehow observe from the outside something fall into a black hole, you would never see it reach the event horizon. It would get forever closer and closer at an ever slowing rate, but never actually arrive. Quite a fucked up thing to think about. However, we see gravity affecting time no-the-less. Now, this does not prove that inside the singularity time is affected, but it certainly affected time rather significantly in the area around! All our physics breaks down in the singularity. Perhaps time itself breaks down, into something meaningless, or at least different.stuff...It's just a theory, but this seems a lot more logic to me than just saying everything originated from the big bang even though there is nothing to trigger the big bang itself.
Logic does not exist until the big bang either. Nothing we know does. This is perhaps the one question we will never ever answer, or even make progress on.After all there is no way for us to know anything specific about singularities.
Well, we do know some things about singularities. For example, they are of long, but finite life as they eventually give up their energy to virtual particles around them. This is another thing to think about, an infinite universe means infinite virtual particles. Infinite particles to keep track of in an infinite space. It all sounds a bit, infinite and what can possibly be calculating and keeping track of infinite things? There must be 'something' keeping track of positions of things.