UPSB v4
General Discussion / World Tournament 11 - Post-Tournament Discussion
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 18:36:09
Discuss the tournament in general here. Also leave feedback for the next WT, in 2013. 1) What's your favorite video of the tournament? 2) What's the revelation of the tournament? 3) What trends will become popular after this tournament? 4) How must the judging be changed?
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 19:57:13
my favourite in this tournament was eriror and vicgotgame, too bad they lost D=
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:02:16
1 snow's 2p2h combo in the semi final 3 MX spinning is gonna get popular now (i already ordered 2 more :P)
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:11:45
s777 all the way
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:18:50
exclusive wrote: s777 all the way
So intense. Anyway, I think this WT won't cause the same style-copy as for Spinnerpeem, first because it's not so easy to copy (I'm not saying what Peem do isn't hard, it's just you can vizualize it more easily), and then because it's not very astonishing for the new spinners ; for example my brother isn't very impressed by s777 but he thinks Peem is breathtaking. -
Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:24:26
yah supawit does EXTREMELY difficult stuff, but he makes it look effortless, peem makes everything he does look soooo difficult lol, s777 is REALLY good, but not as appealing to new spinners, because it is veryvery difficult to understand the idea of linkage unless you're a spinner
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:31:56
1) In descending order, only one combo per spinner. A personal list, not judging by the rules. 5. HAL R4 4. Vic R1 3. Mesi R3 2. s777 R6 1. Supawit R4 2) New stuff has been introduced, we have a somewhat official "world champion", the participants improved during the tournament... 3) I don't know. Maybe using pens for styles they aren't intended for? Or Snows way of using two hands and doing creative handmovement. 4) This is a question thats bugging me since R1. Worst thing is: I have no idea (even though I complain all the time lol). It is difficult to decide who is able to judge "correctly" (read: by the rules OR personal impression) and who isn't. In a community-based system it is even more difficult since you can't just exclude boards. Maybe the UPSB should decide on a team of judges, not the communities. Though I'm not sure if this is going to work out or if it actually would hurt the reputation of this event.
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:23:54
This would mean you're absolutely sure that UPSB is able to choose the judges more than the other boards. The problem is, even if i though JEB's judgments were all bad, i could never "prove" i'm better than them at judging and ask for a team of judges without JEB spinners - they probably think they are better at judging, and they may ask for a team without UPSB / FPSB members... I think nothing can be done : The world is huge, we're thousands of people practicing pen spinning, there will never be any global decisions about the best way to judge. Imo, the best solution is what was done : Judges from each community, even if people will keep on flaming each other about their opinions on combos. The only thing that could be improved would be to ask for judgments really "quantified", i mean, not saying "please look at the tempo, the speedness and the mistakes to judge execution", but asking for a note in each sub-criteria, like "tempo : 0/1, control of the speedness : 0/1, mistakes : 2 little mistakes, 1 big mistakes", etc...
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:26:29
well to new spinners power tricks seems appealing because theyre the "flashy" types, and s777's are very difficult, but not "flashy" if u understand about PS and see how difficult s777 is, then theyll be astonished by s777 my friend thought snow was god when he saw the semi-final vid so maybe beginners would still go the power tricking-buster way, and even 2p2h style, but intermediate ppl might go try out kin/s777 style i dont think it changes the beginners for now...
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 22:42:59
[B]1) What's your favorite video of the tournament?[/B] HAL R4 and s777 R1. I don't know about difficulty-wise, but they just LOOKED good. [B]2) What's the revelation of the tournament?[/B] How style has changed over time. New linkages, etc. [B]3) What trends will become popular after this tournament?[/B] Lighter pens like MX and s777 MX, and etc. [B]4) How must the judging be changed?[/B] More to the people. Perhaps spinners who are famous/talented who are not in the tournaments can help judge and the rest can be decided by "the people"
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 22:50:20
1) What's your favorite video of the tournament? sister_r and hal's videos, supawit r4 2) What's the revelation of the tournament? snow, especially vs a13x 3) What trends will become popular after this tournament? rex-arounds (already popular a lot) supawit's continous fl pass... i don't think the use mx or s777s linkages will become so popular. it's hard and not flashy enough, it's also more subtle 4) How must the judging be changed? judging method is alright since wc10. judges may not be but there's nothing to do about it (strong spinners are in the wt, blahblah) thanks for organising this wt. 1st round was a big challenge.
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 23:41:00
my favorite video by far was Kin R4.
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 00:01:23
Favorite video :1, kin R5 2, s777 r6 3, hal r3
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 00:32:49
1) Favourite Videos: snow R2, snow R3, HAL R3, kin R5. 2) Revelation: All-round psers are most appreciated. Two-hand spinning has a huge step forward. No creativity, no penspinning. Linkages between power series are valued more than power tricks themselves. Judging system is not perfect. 3) Future: Two-hand spinning will start growing rapidly. Lighter mods will become more valuable in psers' heart, along with buster and other heavy sticks. Unique styles will be further developed by every single pser. 4) Suggestions: Different categories should have different weights in the marking system (for example, the total mark for creativity is 10 while difficulty and others are 5). Also, the judges should be voted or chosen by the public of forums. Looking forward to seeing an even more epic WT13! ^_^
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 01:09:36
1. sponge R2 video 3. sure mx spinning . i already buy 1 mx XD .
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 01:11:59
some of the 2h1p stuff i saw from Snow was bodacious. if only he could have upped the difficulty a bit more he may have won vs s777
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 03:32:49
1) What's your favorite video of the tournament? HAL R4 and supawit127 R1 and more... 2) What's the revelation of the tournament? New tricks, different styles and the trend of ps 3) What trends will become popular after this tournament? I have no idea, its the beginner to decide their idols, maybe the s777/kin's style will influence them a little, but I feel the general trend will not change... 4) How must the judging be changed? First, choose judges more carefully, make sure they are qualified(its easy to say but hard to do = =) Second, make the rule more detailed, this is more important and practical...
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 03:43:56
1) What's your favorite video of the tournament? supawit R1 and R4, snow R1, R2,R3,R4, HAL R4, Vic R1, s777 R1, Rex R3, (and maybe a few more i can't pick out atm) 2) What's the revelation of the tournament? snow's 2h/2p spinning was probably the biggest 'revelation', also supawit's 2h; and both finalists used light mods...and of course some of the scores given by judges (not so much in the results of the matches themselves, but the scores for certain aspects) 3) What trends will become popular after this tournament? rex's flourish (as stated earlier), 2 hand spinning will become more popular, also maybe more ppl learning linkages involving finger dexterity; however, i think the trend peem started will continue, albeit not to the same extent 4) How must the judging be changed? judges actually read the criteria (or keep it in their subconscious while judging), and use it; also they could possibly make a brief comparison between what scores they gave to spinners in the same round to see if they make sense; for R1 the workload is enormous (but it's also way easier to pick out who is better in each pool compared to picking the winner of single matches); but for later rounds with fewer spinners maybe more of an effort can be made =\ judging is a thankless, hard job, and all the best spinners are basically competing -.- the criteria given in the document released before the WT itself was pretty good though; ironically, no matter what is done, there'll always be disagreements, just that there won't be as many xD
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 03:49:32
1) What's your favorite video of the tournament? I didn't follow every video intensely, but I liked s777, Vic, Supawit and Eriror's videos, in no specific order, because each spinner has their pros and cons. 2) What's the revelation of the tournament? Spinners have improve a lot since penspinning had been introduced (well duh). Like any sport, they improve with time, and the new people bring in new ideas and new level into it. Like, it's not exactly spinning anymore, with Punkan and stuff. Hopefully WT13 will be even more spectacular than this one. 3) What trends will become popular after this tournament? I'd say strange linkages :D But I don't think people *coughnewbscough* will give up on heavy pens that easily. And maybe stalls/triangle passes? 4) How must the judging be changed? Judging is fine actually. I think it's great.
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 08:41:55
1) s777 r1,r2,r3,[B]r4[/B], r5, [B]r6[/B] , fratleym r1 , vicgotgame r1, r2, r3 , snow r2 , ocha r1 , ............. 2) judges prefer nice linkages over powertricks 3) nice linkages, stalls, triangle passes like krypton said + 2 handed spinning (I already see some people spinning 2 handed after they saw snow) 4) I dunno what the problem was but supawit vs kin results in r5 had a big problem , you should fix stuff like that btw i realized how awesome vic was after seeing the wt
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Date: Mon, May 30 2011 00:13:03
1) snow round any, supawit r4, a couple of sponge's combos 2) snow's 2h spinning just blew me away 3) I agree with Van, lighter pens and harder linkages aren't "flashy". Maybe a little dip in the amount of new power spinners, but i still think the majority of newbies will fall into power spinning because of 1) watching the flashy videos of peem/supa and co, and 2) the flash to difficulty ratio is significantly lower than what s777 does, what kin does, and to an extent, snow. Although i think more spinners will experiment with 2h spinning, taking some material from snow and supa videos 4) keeping in mind that this is only the third world tornament, and 5th international tornament, the rules and judging system can still evolve. One of the biggest concerns is how closely the judges are sticking to the given criteria, and monitoring that is incredibly hard. Also the judging comes down to whether pen spinning is classified by ourselves as an "artistic" sport (a kin to figure skating, sync swimming) or a "competitive" art (drawing competition?). i have no clue on how either of those generally judge, so i can't really draw from them, but interesting to find out
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Date: Tue, May 31 2011 16:18:31
baimai's last round, and supawit 2nd last round:(
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 00:34:36
1.) Vic R1, Eriror R1, Kin R1, Ocha R2, Snow R2, Wah R2, Baaron R2, Supawit R5, x1213 R3 2.) Snow 2p2h, MX spinner 2nd place. 3.) MX, supawit's power sequence. 4.) Judges should supply about a paragraph of reasoning.
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 01:54:46
1.) x1213 R2, Rex R2, snow all of them, Supawit R4, Vicgotgame R1. 2.) I have no clue 3.) MXes, noobs trying to 2P2H 4.) Judging needs a lot more criteria.
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 02:33:26
HAL<3
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 09:54:58
Time to start typing my long post... About the judging issue, I think first of all people should stop complaining about how bad a job the judges are doing (Even if the results are biased or not). It is really discouraging to the judges to see all their long hours spent scrutinising the combos of every round only to see that the post on the WT threads are mainly bashing the judges. Constructive criticism is one thing is one thing but flaming at hating at the judges doesn't give them much encouragement to put more effort into the next rounds. Anyways, back to the question. One solution which isn't very feasible but still is a solution is that every community should send in write up on why they judged that way and someone could check through them to see if they are reasonable. Obviously this is gonna' be very VERY tiring for a lot of people. (the judges will have to put in even more time into judging to write this thing up, Obviously Zombo can't do this alone so there'll have to be some others helping him out, and considering all the different languages and determining the validity would take way too long). Another way is to establish sort of a central judging community, where only veteran, insightful or high level PSers will be accepted and they'll be the judges for the WT and WC. Those who enter would have to be throughly checked out (somehow) though just to prove that they are trustworthy and they know their pen spinning. I guess UPSB could be the "host" for this of sorts for this. This would probably mean the judges can't be anonymous anymore. I think that the WT really promoted various individual tricks and styles of spinning namely, the Rex trick (that got popular after R1) (I broke it down as Fl. TA. TF-P1234 ~ FL. Inverse Sonic Rev. TF-P1234 dunno' if anyone agrees with me), TP without the T, 2 hands spinning (Side note: it's funny that all the best 2 hand spinners like EK and S777 before the WT never did any 2 hand spinning in this WT.), spinning lighter pens, can't think of anymore right now. What I'm hoping to see is that more spinners coming to appreciate intricate, subtle linkages and creativity and more spinners paying attention to it. Hopefully they'll become more obvious and spinners who choose this field won't be so underrated. I guess something that the WT sort of push out to all the PS communities is the importance of the overall-ness in a combo. I doubt the cont. anti gravity, inverse pinky bust cont. and the other stuff S777 did would catch on soon though mainly because they are so darn hard. I mean people will definitely try it but it would never get as popular as the powertricking wave that Peem created. I do think S777's stuff would get more popular though, namely his older tricks, linkages (Cont FL. TA 1.5, Wiper P1, etc) and his style. I didn't have any favourite videos in the tourny. Some of the generally memorial able combos were Vic's R3 (cause it was his last combo), Snow R1 (cause many people had no idea how great a spinner he was before the WT other than his minovate 3rd combo and the tag with Hopo), BaiMai R2 (the whole cheating thingy), Supa R5 (for the new power trick linkage which I think he and Peem will be using a lot more to spread it around the powertricking world) Sponge R3 (For being the 2nd best dark horse in the WT and beating Sister_R) and Kin R3 (for doing all those crazy stuff with an MX) but these are just my opinions.
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 17:30:25
i love hal's combo all the way, but too bad he lost to kin DDD:
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 21:42:46
ehhh favs spinners of the tourney would be s777, a13x, ocha, baaron, snow too lazy to write down which vids
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 22:01:18
I think the judges need to go back to releasing a few short statements in the later rounds to justify their scoring. Also, I think that their also needs to be a better seeding system for R1. The spinners of some communities turned out to be in general worse than from others... so I think their were a couple BS groups.
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Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 17:27:03
im surprise snow didnt get into atleast the final round, his 2p2h combos are so beautiful, creative and innovative, its like watching a butterfly flapping its wings
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Date: Mon, Jun 13 2011 21:01:17
Supergirl wrote: im surprise snow didnt get into atleast the final round, his 2p2h combos are so beautiful, creative and innovative, its like watching a butterfly flapping its wings
true but its no surprise he lost vs s777, his difficulty just wasn't high enough.