UPSB v4
General Discussion / WC12 Discussion
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 05:31:33
Use this thread to discuss WC12 ------------ 1) Should themes be reinstated? 2) If yes, what themes should be used? 3) Should collab qualification be used? 4) What should the judging scheme look like?
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 05:47:32
2012 not WT 2012 will be WC
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 05:51:02
Nou, Twine :3
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 06:04:46
Krypton wrote: Nou, Twine :3
fraltyem -
Date: Fri, May 20 2011 06:50:38
Every 2nd year is WC which is board vs board.
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 07:06:05
Twine wrote: Every 2nd year is WC which is board vs board.
ya , no need to fight cuz u all will see wt next next year from now -
Date: Fri, May 20 2011 10:15:20
If s777 continues to spin (I hope he does) fpsb will be unstoppable
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 10:37:59
FPSB + TWPSC ? (the board Kin is from) will be the power houses of next WC.
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 10:50:32
Krispy Kreme wrote: FPSB + TWPSC ? (the board Kin is from) will be the power houses of next WC.
kin is from HKPSA, but even so, if many of the WC12 themes are same as the WC10 ones, i can't see HKPSA (kin, wah, ccw, tony etc) beating THPSC (supawit, spinnerpeem, baimai, dongza),or FPSB (s777, A13x, gollumsk8, raeik) -
Date: Fri, May 20 2011 11:50:30
I think that UPSB has a good shot... Seriously though, I hope UPSB can go far. I don't think THPSC will win 'cause they probably won't be sending their A team (I believe they are gonna' send it the newer gen spinners) I'm hoping to see Boards like HKPSA, KPSA, PSH, TWPS and all the north(ish) Asian Boards surprise us.
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 12:20:05
thpsc easy domination in 2010 might end, yeah, but they're still dangerous :0 many strong individual spinners in fpsb, but absolutely no team-spirit, we'll see tough if golumsk8 and fratleym are getting tired, they still have good hopes likes raeik and overall fel2fram. twps is very strong too. i think those will be the 3 strongest ones and no bpsc in 2012 ;3 about jeb, we'll see the random line-up lol
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 13:09:12
i really really really hope spinnerpeem (and supawit and baimai) compete for THPSC (and dongza too, but not as much); the newer spinners of THPSC are simply not on the level of the 3 'gods' mentioned earlier =\ hmm, at least it will provide a strong incentive for the new generation to practice harder xD although if baimai isn't in THPSC WT team, who will represent them for creativity? peem can't afford to use all of his power trick ideas in one round for 'creativity' theme...i guess we'll just have to see x). FPSB - their spinners are insane (s777, A13x, gollumsk8, raeik, fel2fram) as well as some other elites/pros (neptune? smile etc); idk about the 'team spirit' aspect, but on paper they may well be the strongest team if those spinners choose to compete... JEB - can never tell what happens with them =__=" they'll be good, of course; i want mesi, HAL, Sister_R, rhetoric, ponkotu, fire@fox etc, whether JEB will be as good as it could be is unknown. if ponkotu competes, i wonder if he'll make any 'amusing' combos like in WC10 GPC - 'split' between GPC and LPSA dilutes concentration of pro spinners? not sure of impact of this -.- but with sponge being the 'dark horse' of WT11, he is now possibly the best spinner of GPC, and minwoo stating he will return (for how long though? and when? and how much would he developed?)...community issues is probably biggest problem for them, can't tell what will happen, there's also taichi, colddi, might, vstrike (but they are LPSA? sorry if i got anything wrong) KPSA - not enough active pro/elite spinners to make a judgment (or maybe i don't look hard enough); tose might be on the team? but the other members i have no idea (crew is inactive, on national service?)...NiA is also inactive =\ skydigital could compete too, maybe. if KPSA is in WC12, some new names might appear xD HKPSA - kin, wah, ccw, tony? kin is the strongest, wah is also very good...idk about the other 4+ members required for WC team though. not as strong as TWPS, imo... TWPS - rex, x1213, minzian (all to WT11 R3 or further?), as well as evolution, joey (that's all i can think of atm xD), look forward to seeing great things from them. i'd like to see JEB vs TWPS :) PSH - given youtube is essentially banned in china, we don't seem to see many videos of chinese spinners. from WT11, snow will no doubt take the 2 hands theme (and win it easily), i guess he could also go for difficulty and a lot of other themes (depends on development of 2p2h etc); but the other PSH WT spinners were not that strong imo...however, i think PSH has more strong spinners that are not that famous and did not participate in WT11 UPSB - first thing i think, 'who are the best spinners of UPSB?' then i realise 'damn, vicgotgame is gone, we're screwed xDDD' T__T one of UPSB's strongest spinners has left (but then again, WC/WT can make some spinners return...idk though, i won't get my hopes up, and i hope no one bugs him about it too much -.-)...i guess we have eriror, baaron (if he competes?), pen ninja, jamie enns, twine, myself possibly...but atm, most of the spinners who may represent UPSB for WC12 stand little or no chance against the god-level/nearly god-level (e.g. WT11 R3 or better) spinners. a lot can happen in the next 8 months though... more importantly, how will communities for WC12 participation be selected? last year's system was dodgy (ok, i'm a 'bit' biased...but still. i think it'd be better if system allowed for more than 8 communities to participate)
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 13:53:59
it depends on the number of communities that register if theres no 16 legit teams, then its still down to 8 teams
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 14:06:44
I love JEB's HAL,Mesi and sister_R,gogogo.XD
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 14:19:10
twps is really strong!! fpsb if they bring out another awesome line up will be really great to beat also! but i think THPSC is great when it comes to team play. They are especially good with their doubles O_O its amazing
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 16:01:09
TWPS, JEB, FPSB, and THPSC will be very strong, I'm pretty sure of it. And Indonesia? IPSB? (my country XD) Many communities like umm.. MYPSC, TPC, SPC, PPP, and sth like that are forgotten -.- And do we have to make a collab to qualify like WC10 again? Just asking :)
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 16:06:16
thpsc,fpsb or upsb gonna rape other boards.i hope the upsb wc12 line-up will turn out to be like this = eriror,baaron,twine,neoknux,jamie,hippo.
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 16:51:04
I hope it comes down to 8 teams and only one representing germany. -- GOD TIER -- JEB, THPSC -- HIGH TIER -- FPSB (+some BPSC guys) -- MEDIUM TIER -- UPSB, GPC/LPSA, KPSA, HKPSA PSH and PPP may be able to send strong spinners too, difficult to say right now. Also this is just my personal impression of the strength at this very moment.
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 22:14:31
will upsb even qualify? lol
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 22:42:00
song wrote: thpsc,fpsb or upsb gonna rape other boards.i hope the upsb wc12 line-up will turn out to be like this = eriror,baaron,twine,neoknux,jamie,hippo.
Don't forget i.suk! -
Date: Fri, May 20 2011 23:05:32
who will eriror even be with? there's not many spinners left that spin on a similar skill level as him, now that vic is gone.. we have a few powerful spinners but frankly i dont think it's WC12-winning material... sure to get somewhere in the tourny, but have to win that final match too
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Date: Fri, May 20 2011 23:19:18
Stare wrote: who will eriror even be with? there's not many spinners left that spin on a similar skill level as him, now that vic is gone.. we have a few powerful spinners but frankly i dont think it's WC12-winning material... sure to get somewhere in the tourny, but have to win that final match too
there's still quite a while for spinners to improve :) it'll be a while before someone fills the 'gap' vic left =\ also, getting into WC12 is good (probably only 8 competing boards? if UPSB is in those 8, it's good, improvement from 2010 -.- if 16 boards compete (which is unlikely? i think, not enough 'elites' in some smaller boards), then UPSB is sure to beat a fair portion of them), UPSB winning WC12? we can dream, eh? -
Date: Fri, May 20 2011 23:24:22
i.suk wrote: there's still quite a while for spinners to improve :) it'll be a while before someone fills the 'gap' vic left =\ also, getting into WC12 is good (probably only 8 competing boards? if UPSB is in those 8, it's good, improvement from 2010 -.- if 16 boards compete (which is unlikely? i think, not enough 'elites' in some smaller boards), then UPSB is sure to beat a fair portion of them), UPSB winning WC12? we can dream, eh?
well get practicin! -
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 01:07:25
song wrote: thpsc,fpsb or upsb gonna rape other boards.i hope the upsb wc12 line-up will turn out to be like this = eriror,baaron,twine,neoknux,jamie,hippo.
Wow me in the team for UPSB next year. I would love that but a long way to go for me I guess. Thanks for the compliment though Song Sad to see that BPSC isn't gonna' participate though, You guys were great last year. -
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 01:39:28
whoah....baimai was browsing this thread.... 0.0 anyways, i think our strongest competitors would be i.suk (who, by the way, does not suck), Baaron, and EK? i thought ek wasn't competing anymore though? lol we might also be able to get people like jamie enns in or twine etc. hippo2626 could also compete. Oyah i forgot neoknux :P sorry EDIT: also forgetting we have teotoko, awesome, pen ninja, shadow, and a bunch of other talents. I think we have a pretty good team
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 02:12:57
I don;t think the combos are up-to-par with spinners such as S777 or Supawit, etc. though. EK is good enough <3, i don't stalk Baaron and other UPSB spinners enough to know if they are, but honestly, it is gonna take quite a bit of work in order to defeat the other top boards.
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 03:43:45
UPSB got a powerful spinner too .. baaron , juminuwu , twine , eriror
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 04:29:58
I still think TWPS is a major dark horse. @drgripable: teo is long gone.
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 04:45:27
oh ya,i forgot to mention @i.suk.forgive me.lol
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 05:35:32
What ever happened to teo? I liked that guy. :/
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 05:36:22
song wrote: oh ya,i forgot to mention @i.suk.forgive me.lol
i think i forgot too and neonux too -
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 12:52:56
JEB could easily win the WC even without their Best like Seven, Toro and kUzu but who knows what team they'll send. They have so many pro spinners and all being distinctly good in different areas of PSing. It would be so awesome if 16 boards competed in the WC. There'll be so many vids to watch. I'm hoping that all the lesser known and less strong boards would send in a teams. There are so many highly underrated spinners from all these boards like JTS (SPSC) and ~L~ (BRPSB). I'm hoping that the WC would help get these spinners recognised. If 16 teams participate, it would be 4 groups of 4 for 3 rounds and the top 4 will move on to the semi finals right @Zombo
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 13:21:45
Krispy Kreme wrote: FPSB + TWPSC ? (the board Kin is from) will be the power houses of next WC.
Wut? He is from HKPSA... -
Date: Sat, May 21 2011 14:57:59
Now that Vic is gone, upsb is fucked!
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 16:27:58
I want JEB to win :3
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 18:19:18
A tournament with 16 teams would be amazing: JEB HKPSA TWPS PSH THPSC MYPSC KPSA GPC LPSA FPSB SPSC BRPSC UPSB NLPSC SPC PPP IPSB TPC BPSC +Russian Board 16 teams are possible
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Date: Sat, May 21 2011 22:54:14
AoD1 wrote: Now that Vic is gone, upsb is fucked!
do you even pen spin -
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 01:07:53
What the fuck do you think!
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Date: Sun, May 22 2011 01:17:41
AoD1 wrote: Now that Vic is gone, upsb is fucked!
i miss vic . -
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 03:54:02
Frip wrote: A tournament with 16 teams would be amazing: JEB HKPSA TWPS PSH THPSC MYPSC KPSA GPC LPSA FPSB SPSC BRPSC UPSB NLPSC SPC PPP IPSB TPC BPSC +Russian Board 16 teams are possible
which of these communities can actually pump out 6 quality spinners... many communities had less than 6 in WT11... you need 6 to make a team, whereas in WT you only needed 2 minimum -
Date: Sun, May 22 2011 21:36:57
sangara wrote: What ever happened to teo? I liked that guy. :/
he just... dropped out -
Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:28:41
1) Should themes be reinstated? 2) If yes, what themes should be used? 3) Should collab qualification be used? 4) What should the judging scheme look like? 5) Should smaller communities ally themselves to produce a full team of 6?
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 20:53:41
1. No, I didn't like themes because it encouraged "A is better than B because A fits the theme better" argument even though B might have been clearly better than A. I also felt that some themes (like body+environment) encouraged spinning way too gimmicky for a world competition. I guess it helps 'explore new aspects of pen spinning' but that's not true pen spinning, imo. 2. If themes are used, no aerials or body+environment. Who normally spins based on those themes anyways? I didn't really like the idea of speed as a theme either since it often became a competition of who could spin faster and lots of quality was sacrificed as a result. I would be interested in seeing a theme like style or something... that encourages judging based on appearance of the combo instead of technicalities. Yeah, it's kinda subjective... but these days I'm thinking stuff like difficulty are becoming quite subjective too. 3. I liked it. Collabs are a part of pen spinning anyways. 4. I'm satisfied with how judging is now actually. I would like more weight to be put in execution and presentation, but judges tend to do that already anyways so I don't care. 5. I wouldn't see why not. It'll be like UPSB.
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:07:19
1. I actually enjoyed the themes like body & enviroment; like who wouldnt be entertained by ponkotu's WC10 vids?? and BaiMai? So i think you should just keep it the way it was 2. The themes used in WC10 seemed good to me 3. Yes it should be used, but that will be only used when there are 8 boards competing no? So there will be selection 4. Judge seems fine to me as it was before 5. hmm... this, idk because then for themes such as doubles, will they have a easy communication between each other? and if they win whats going to happen to the board? i think it should be seperate boards...
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:30:22
1. I think we should move themes aside. Or at least get rid of 'Body and enviroment' and 'spinless'. As an addition to combo it may look nice, but as a dominant it really sucks. Watching penspinners who tried to fully adapt to those 2 themes wasn't enjoyable anyhow. 2. Smoothness and difficulty weren't that bad themes, but still I think it's better to abondon Themes idea. 3. Collabs might be interesting as a starter, but I would set a limit for number of penspinners. I think that only board representants should participate in those collabs. No need to make 5min collabs as qualification. 4. I don't have any idea how to improve judging scheme. For now I would keep it like it was on WT. 5. I don't see any problem with that. Good idea
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:31:42
3) Collab qualification should not used imo cause edit would be another creteria at judging the collabs and I believe what is supposed the judged is only spinning but nothing else. 5) That seem really sensable to me. Good spinners of small communites cannot participate due to they cant have a full team. That could help a lot to spinners from small communites to show up and makes the WC more enjoyable; the more qualify spin the more fun. Sorry for my poor English. >.<
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:33:20
Van wrote: 5. hmm... this, idk because then for themes such as doubles, will they have a easy communication between each other? and if they win whats going to happen to the board? i think it should be seperate boards...
thats their problem, if they decide to ally then they have to decide how to do things and how to split the team, its not our problem. the question is whether it should be allowed. it's not the first time it happened BTW (PZ/KCF, KPSA/PDS)3. Collabs might be interesting as a starter, but I would set a limit for number of penspinners. I think that only board representants should participate in those collabs. No need to make 5min collabs as qualification.
the collab is made in november, so communities don't know who's in their team yet. -
Date: Sat, May 28 2011 21:53:16
keep the themes. Someone said there is a risk a spinner will win because he fits a criteria, not because he is better; it's not a problem : WC does not reward the best spinner, only the best community. If a spinner win because of a criteria, it means the community is strong enough to send a spinner that "dominate" this criteria, that's all. I would like to see themes for every battles. Themes would be : Difficulty, style, creativity, 2p2h and stuff like that, and a "no theme" battle which would reward the pen spinner that is the best at "being good in every criteria". I'm fine with "fun themes" though. Collabs are a great way to evaluate the communities that should participate. Judges are not stupid enough to allow a community to participate because of a nice editing, but if people fear it would happen, then replace it with a "set of 6 combos" (not necessarily from spinners in the team, of course) that would show the level. But i prefer the collaboration idea. I would like to see it as an event, like every community reveal the collab the same day, at the same time.
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Date: Sat, May 28 2011 22:40:54
wc10 was perfect (obvious for me to say that, ikr) oh, spinless theme is still a bit weird, i think it's also not fashionable anymore. Aerial theme is legit, b&e can be funny so why not.
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 03:58:34
1) Should themes be reinstated? hmm, yes, it forces spinners to explore areas which would otherwise probably never be tried/developed, it also introduces an element of strategy on a board-scale not present in WT (balancing spinners chosen for strengths/material they have vs every man for himself). otherwise it'd be very, very similar to WT, i think =\ 2) If yes, what themes should be used? same ones as last WC, except remove speed (leads to too much sacrificing of other aspects of PS to gain a little speed, also speed isn't as important as say, control for example (speed is a small part of control in WT judging, too xD so i don't think it encourages enough 'exploration' or is significant enough); also have a no-theme singles battle in each round too maybe? the tag battle should certainly be retained ^^ hmm, not that sure about aerials either... 3) Should collab qualification be used? the issue of using (more like re-using) older combos of spinners, as well as the spinners in the collab not being representative of the board's potential WC team have to be considered; that being said, it seemed to work decently in WC10 (with the exception of FPSB's collab not having its best spinners =__="), also judges should be given an explicit notice not to take editing into account while judging...and the way votes are counted MUST be changed (i.e. HKPSA getting in instead of UPSB due to percentage approval vs the actual rankings the judges placed each community) 4) What should the judging scheme look like? similar to WT11 judging was, except with the given theme's criteria being weighted more (maybe 2 or 3x more than other aspects are by themselves?), and some judging for co-ordination/transfers etc for tag battles 5) Should smaller communities ally themselves to produce a full team of 6? don't see a problem with that :)
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 04:53:45
first zombo changed the title then he edited my entire post, i feel so used and abused lol anyway i.suk if EK doesnt want to go ill go with u ;)
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 15:46:04
@i.suk : collab system worked fine in 2010, it was just a huge lack of organisation on FPSB ^^ there was around 15 combos sent, and s777 thought it would be fun to use a simple pencil. The result was... bad =)
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 16:58:29
I personally like FPSB, they surprise me all the time with their collabs. Also, I idolize some JEB spinners like Mesi or Ponkotu. But to be honest, I think that THPSC with peem, supa, dongza, baimai is the best board at the moment. Of course, no speaking of judges like last WT. ---------------------- (1) Should themes be reinstated? == No. I think it's ok so far (3) Should collab qualification be used? == Of course. (4) What should the judging scheme look like? == .. no idea ( 5) Should smaller communities ally themselves to produce a full team of 6? == It's a good idea. It may motivate spinners from smaller communities to train harder, show off themselves. However, Spinners from all over the world can join UPSB if they really want, right? Therefore, I wonder if UPSB is a kind of what you mean at (5)
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Date: Sun, May 29 2011 17:12:24
However, Spinners from all over the world can join UPSB if they really want, right? Therefore, I wonder if UPSB is a kind of what you mean at (5)
UPSB will already be pretty full with its own spinners. Some communities exist outside of UPSB and may be want to form a team together because they are too small otherwise. -
Date: Sun, May 29 2011 17:43:06
if THPSC wants to win, They willl. Supawit, peem, Bai Mai, Donga, and newer spinners, and NZ (I think he's THPSC). You can't beat them. FPSB is good too, but no one will beat THPSC.
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Date: Mon, May 30 2011 00:24:49
1) themes i think was a major factor in making WC10 a success. Themes for one provided a way to improve various aspects of pen spinning by forcing the "best of the best" to experiment. And through that, i think we did see an improvement in the spinning community. And secondly, the themes forced a more tactical approach to both picking line ups, and picking match ups. This meant THPSC couldn't send out 6 power spinners, because they would have a problem with spinless. And in later rounds, although you might want to use peem/supa in the doubles, supa would be more suited to aerials than dongza. This is what made WC differ from "a team based WT" 2) speed should be out, it is hardly important in a solid combo, thus not contributing to the "evolution of spinning". 2 hands is a good theme to replace that with, seeing as this WT we saw what we can do with 2 hands. B&E was fun, and i think we need that, and spinless i'm a bit wary about, but i dont have a suggestion of what to replace it with, and the isolations etc were quite good 3) Definitely needed for qualification if there are only 8 slots open. Also useful for seeding IF there are 16. If there are any fears that editing/sfx/music is used to bump up the quality, i think like someone said before, "a set of 6 combos" would be better than a "collab" 4) WT style judging was fine imo, but obviously a little tweaking to both fit the WC and weed out any issues from WT11 5) If they think they can manage it, then by all means, i have no problem, and it will force better perfomances by having the very best 8 teams, rather than very good 10 teams, and 6 others which consist of 2-"godtier" spinners and 4 mediocre
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Date: Mon, May 30 2011 01:18:15
1) Should themes be reinstated? yes themes made it fun and fancy. 2) If yes, what themes should be used? Well the thing is isolations, and aerials are "types" of tricks that belong to certain trick families. If those can be allowed, then also themes like "baks" , or "wipers" or "Free Spinning (like Thumb Spins, bak 10.0's etc) should be included/considered. Also i agree that a "no theme" battle where just the best combo should be introduced into every round. well..this is how the commonwealth games were run: Every round had 1 Creative theme, 1 Technical theme, and a "Themeless Single" OR a "Themeless Double" which swapped over each round. 3) Should collab qualification be used? yes, but i think there needs to be a limit on the amoutn of spinners. i didn tlike the time limit thing last time bc the collabs varried too much. some had few spinners with long combos, others had lots with short. so it was hard to judge. 4) What should the judging scheme look like? Winner/Loser with an explanation. But also a guiding criteria sheet of what a "good combo" is. I know this is difficult but ive defined one before...Its also good for defining things like "If pen weight should be considered" etc. 5) Should smaller communities ally themselves to produce a full team of 6? yes because i was thinking of possibly creating one....with Aus and new zealand. that may be stealing quite a few of UPSB's spinners though... xD and im not sure if they would be happy to.
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Date: Mon, May 30 2011 01:52:55
1. control - freestyle over 50s 3. yes , it should be used 4. winner/loser with an explanation
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Date: Mon, May 30 2011 02:28:32
Zombo wrote: UPSB will already be pretty full with its own spinners. Some communities exist outside of UPSB and may be want to form a team together because they are too small otherwise.
ah yeah. I see xD -
Date: Mon, May 30 2011 03:21:48
hope to see JEB performing well in the WC X)
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Date: Tue, May 31 2011 16:13:06
haha, of course THPSC will come and rape the wc. remember the last WC? all other boards lost in the last round.
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Date: Tue, May 31 2011 22:25:34
So uh... When does team qualifications start :D
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Date: Wed, Jun 1 2011 00:29:41
1.) Yes. 2.) Aerials and speed should be taken out, I can't think of good replacements though. 3.) I guess, I can't think of anything else. 4.) Having a paragraph explanation would be good, otherwise, similar to WT. The pen used should be taken into judging.
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Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 01:28:37
I've been delaying posting my thoughts on the WC since last year and I finally am getting around to doing it. Hopefully this'll be helpful. I think the themes were a great idea. I find it is the best way to determine who should win the WC because the WC is basically finding out which is the best board. Like the WT, the best board is the board which is the most overall board. It is incredibly difficult to really determine who better overall with a regular battle is; hence thematic battles would be more effective (though not the best but it's the best way we can think have right now). One issue I had with the last WC was that not every board got to experience every theme which made it unfair as there's a factor of chance in play. For example, THPSC got 2 hand battles twice last year and since they had BaiMai, it was easy for them to win those 2 battles. My suggestion is that the round-robin stage be extended to 4 rounds. In which 2 rounds will be 3 1v1 matches (1st one will consist of 2 Technical themes and 1 artistic theme, the next one will be the other way around) and the other 2 would be the regular 2 1v1 matches and 1 2v2 matches. So in total there'll be 5 technical and 5 artistic battles and each board can experience every single theme and it'll give a more accurate picture of which board is a more overall board. This would make it harder on the teams and the judges though so it might not be as effective. Also, I remember Zombo saying something on this thread about if 16 teams sign up then all 16 would be compete in the round-robin stages. I think this is really risky just because of the enormous work load on the judges. Even if the due date for the judging is increased to 2 weeks, it'll be really draining on the judges and probably, their judgment would weaken after doing about 8 battles. With all the commotion about bad judging in the WT, it could be really detrimental if it happens again next year. For the themes itself (and the other things), I think judging it should be rather straight forward (not so much on the artistic side). I think there shouldn't be judging rubrics for each battle per say but there should be some guidelines on what to look out for, what plays a more important role, etc. Also , even though, these are thematic battles, there should still be a small fraction of judgment on the other aspects of the combo. Technical themes I think all these themes are fine. They encompass everything important in the PS technical world. Speed I thought this theme was a very prejudice theme. I noticed that after the Wc more spinners believed that faster spinning is pro-er (Who else wants to join the "Stop discriminating the slower spinner movement?"). Spinning faster does not mean you are a better spinner. What speed you choose to spin at is a stylistic choice and it's not bad to spin slower. I think the more important issue here is the control over ones speed. In which, at whatever speed you spin at, you show that you are not affected by the difficulty of the trick and your speed stays constant. Something Kin would succeed in very well. Of course variation of speed, if it were planned out by the spinner would earn more points. Not to say that, if you spin incredibly faster than the norm you won’t get more points but in that same light, if you spin incredibly slower, it would be just as if not even more difficult than fast spinning. Smoothness Not much of an issue here. Only I thought that, the judgment should not be solely on whether the combo is smoother or not but on other factors. For example, the WCR4 taichi versus kr4zy battle. I thought taichi should have won. Yes taichi's combo was not 100% smooth but it had many elements that displayed important aspects of smoothness like smooth directional changes and smoothness in difficulty. I think these factors play important roles as well. Difficulty I guess the most important thing is that there is a display of both difficult linkages and tricks evenly in the combos. Control Looks pretty perfect to me. Variety Nothing wrong to me but I was thinking instead of just variety of tricks, other important factors of PSing could be considered in this theme like serialism, being able to use rare tricks in a combo and having an fairly evenly distributed forward and reverse tricks in a combo. Artistic themes Personally I think the 2 most important artistic themes are creativity and originality. I don't think I need to explain why creativity is so important. Originality on the other hand is a little different. First of all, I think it should be separated from creativity because they are very different themes. Yes you need to be creative to be original but you don’t need to be original to be creative (best explanation ever... I don't really know how to explain this in words sorry). Secondly, it’s something that not every spinner can carry but it does differentiate the good spinners from the bad spinners and in that same light, the good boards from the great boards. I believe that the best board which is what the WC is supposed to determine, should be a great board and since originality is on factor in determining that, it should be in the WC. This is sort of opinionated so I may not be right. It would also be very interesting to see as it would push spinners further, and undoubtedly produce new interesting things in the PS world. Who knows maybe a new WC theme might spring from this theme for the next few ones. Of course if this theme gets in the judging would have to be lenient because it’s a very VERY hard theme. B&E, spinless and 2 hands are great themes I think. They show different aspects of PSing. I guess 2 hands is important now more than ever just because it’s still hot from the WT. I'm just wondering if there are any other themes other than spinless and B&E? I do so love these themes but it might be more interesting to mix things up a bit. They have been well developed since the last WC and it's not as challenging to come up with content for these themes (could be applicable for 2 hands as well). I was thinking the WT could be a platform to launch new (or old overlooked) concepts and ways of spinning. The only other themes I can think of right now is fingerstucking, simultaneous tricks and pen manipulation but they might not be big enough for a whole theme in the WC. I think the aerials theme is slightly irrelevant. I always wondered why this was the only trick family that was let into the artistic theme. It may be a little more underdeveloped compared with the other trick families but then again a lot of the trick families are underdeveloped (topsins, throughspins, arounds, conics) Others Qualifications I think the collab qualification thingy was brilliant. Collabs are the easiest way to get a feel of the skill level the board in one round. I think it also shows important aspects of the board that often goes unspoken, teamwork and unity. These qualities are really important aspects in determining the best board in my opinion. I'm not saying that they should be added into the judging criteria (I can't think of any way to judge these qualities) but there should be battles where these qualities would be required to produce something good like doubles battle and collabs. Doubles I liked this round but I thought there were too many of this, hence, I mentioned above that 2 of the doubles battles could be removed from the first few rounds. I think some of the important things to consider about the judging of doubles battle are how the 2 spinners complement each other combo wise whist displaying enough of their own skill set, transitions and how the doubles team display a little about what their board is about. Some of the things I said was opinionated so it might not be relevant but hopefully there was some use in this post. I think this is the longest post I've ever posted. Cool, 1462 words! Apologies for the bad English, I can't be bothered to check the whole post again. P.S. I was typing this out before Zombo released the WC thread but I didn't complete it. Hopefully this isn't too late to be of use to the WC. @Zombo
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Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 21:59:00
can someone give me a link to Ponkotu's body and environment combo from WC10? can't find it
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Date: Sun, Jul 17 2011 01:28:26
PDS?