UPSB v4
General Discussion / WT11 - Semifinals - Results OUT!
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:38:35
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:45:02
I cant see them. It says that they are revealed, but it doesnt say them.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:47:45
MickChickenn wrote: I cant see them. It says that they are revealed, but it doesnt say them.
it gives the results in 3 format... pick whatever u want -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:50:05
oh sorry. I didnt see that.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:51:49
KIN BEAT SUPAWIT!!!!!! ♥.♥
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 16:53:43
drgripable wrote: KIN BEAT SUPAWIT!!!!!! ♥.♥
^ -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:00:22
Holy! Kin if you can beat s777, then the world of MX spinning will be reborn!
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:00:45
s777 vs snow 11-2 kill me please
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:01:23
unbelievable result-.-
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:02:09
How could Supawit lose? This is outrageous
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:02:43
Snow should've won.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:03:36
what a bunch of bull crap. Snow had it won, same with Supawit. Snow had beginner linkages, but the 2P2H stuff he was doing was freakin awesome. I wont even comment on Supawit losing to Kin. Just..... lame.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:07:03
Yeah, supawit's loss was a surprise. If s777 does a 2P2H kin might lose it.. They're both able to use light mods, which is impressive enough. I feel bad for snow's large fanbase though. It's hard for me to guess what kin will do, but he pulls something new in every video, except for his TP variations. s777 has a better look at being champion, due to experience and probably can pull something massively impressive for the final. I'm for kin, anyway.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:07:38
Lets have an FPSB winner shall we.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:09:12
supawit losing is surprising, I think he might be victim of "anti-power-trick" reputation. snow losing is expected IMO, because he is not as complete spinner as s777, especially in linkages and structure.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:16:24
i just can not understand the loss of 127.............
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:17:52
Zombo wrote: snow losing is expected IMO, because he is not as complete spinner as s777, especially in linkages and structure.
peem is not as complete spinner as minwoo, especially in linkages and structure -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:19:45
EaglE wrote: peem is not as complete spinner as minwoo, especially in linkages and structure
the rules of this WT11 were changed to avoid problems with last WT. -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:19:52
awh, i wanted snow to win not only cause i love his spinning slightly more than s777, but also because we can't really see much of snow's spinning elsewhere, while s777 has lots of videos D: and yeah, kin beating supawit is pretty radical
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:20:44
snow is great,2p2h helped him a lot in the tourney,but his linkages are just....not enough for wt level. i dun like power tricks,but im surprised to see supawit lost though. anyway,im rooting for kin,im proud to be chinese!lol
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:21:13
White person can win WT this year 0.0
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:26:02
Zombo wrote: the rules of this WT11 were changed to avoid problems with last WT.
alright, u create the rules and lead the directions of PenSpinning -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:29:10
s777 ftw !
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:30:05
this is ridiculous. i won't watch that final
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:32:28
so s777vs kin?
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:33:30
EaglE wrote: alright, u create the rules and lead the directions of PenSpinning
the rules were created 6 months before the start of the tournament, if you had a problem with the rules, you tell them before the tournament starts, now its too late. the rules say the winner must be the the most complete spinner overall -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:39:22
Zombo wrote: the rules were created 6 months before the start of the tournament, if you had a problem with the rules, you tell them before the tournament starts, now its too late.
The rules are fine. The problem are the judges ignoring the rules. -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:39:29
Gisele 8 wrote: this is ridiculous. i won't watch that final
No one needs you to watch this. This is a very fair result. -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:48:46
What is this with everybody whining? The four contestants of the semi-finals each pulled off impressive combos, all of which will influence and affect penspinning as a whole. I don't think neither Snow, Supawit, or even contestants from the previous rounds are ashamed of losing. The matchups were very tight. Yes, this is art, and more so than previous rounds, it's comparing apples and oranges, because the strong points of each of those spinners are completely different. And now what, starting to blame the rules for having your favorite spinner lose, when the tournament is almost over, when you probably didn't know that spinner in the first place prior to the tournament? Seriously, people, you have to grow up, out of your fan-bubble in which you live. Having a favorite spinner is great. Rooting for him is awesome, it's the spirit of competition. Whining this way is detrimental to all of penspinning.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:49:51
crinix wrote: No one needs you to watch this. This is a very fair result.
you feel like a hero saying this, right? whatever. this should be called Popularity Spin World Tournament 11 , though -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:56:06
s777 deserved it. I wanted to kin win at first but after watching supawit's combo more i really think he deserved it, but still it was very close. I think s777 was one of the only spinners that planned each round from the beginning, he deserves to win the wt IMO.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 17:56:58
Gisele 8 wrote: you feel like a hero saying this, right? whatever. this should be called Popularity Spin World Tournament 11 , though
If It'd called so, supawit127 would win. and yeah yeah i feel like a fucking super saiyan. -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:03:32
S777 vs Snow 11-2? This is bull
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:11:56
Herp. What are matchups for next round? :trollface: Lol jk. But really, I was shocked so badly at this. I think this year's world tournament is going to go to a FPSB member.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:12:58
there is no reason for a 11-2,snow is much better anyway,kin and snow are chinese's proud,kin will not be the king of mx,he will be the king of wt
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:17:11
it should be supawit vs. snow. period.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:23:02
r96 wrote: kin will not be the king of mx,he will be the king of wt
Imo, kin is good mx spinner, but toro is much better. Anyway, I think that supawit should've won -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:34:18
You guys have a problem with the results? Why not ask the judges.^_^ s777 vs. kin huh... It's like mutated creature vs. human!:hah:
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:43:28
Funny thing is, there would be lots of whining no matter what the results were. xD
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 18:57:13
s777, pull off another FPSB's 4th combo, and you got this
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 19:05:08
where did you get the 1 year spinner judges who feel able to judge something like execution etc? Snow vs s777 ok, s777 is one of the best spinners for years and he deserves it in a way. but Supawit, oh dear, tell me in which category he was worse than kin? maybe smoothness or difficulty? creativity? look at supawit, he used some linkages which I've never seen before, but hey, he didnt pull out 5 punkans and 20 parn news with ring finger and kins combo is his worst in the WT but HE USES MX OMG. I have the impression that this match was done for the judges in under 1 minute due to mx and less power tricks from supawit. And I thought the knowledge of the judges has at least a bit improved since kUzu's loss in the final 2008. eventually, I just can quote Gisele 8's posts here.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 19:20:34
kin win coz he uses mx... fuck yeah! its not fair but who cares, s777 go go go
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 19:45:54
next year we will rry to improve selection of judges, but its difficult...
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 19:57:40
Speaking of MXs, how impressive would S777's combo if it was with a buster? (This is an actual question.)
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 19:58:16
wow... really surprised that supawit lost... how come upsb didnt vote?
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 20:05:44
Cloud wrote: wow... really surprised that supawit lost... how come upsb didnt vote?
they were late and theres no point waiting for them when both spinners already got majority -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 20:06:04
Zombo;92062] but its difficult...[/QUOTE] Yes, thats true. And even worse: People are still going to complain. Organizing the WT must be a pretty shitty job sometimes :/ Anyways, my thoughts on the match Kin vs. Supawit: http://www.psws-blog.de/2011/05/07/supawit-vs-kin-in-depth-analysis/?lang=en Everyone may feel free to comment - or better yet: explain to me why Kins combo is better than Supawits (keeping in mind that the pen is no argument) [QUOTE=Advecticity wrote: Speaking of MXs, how impressive would S777's combo if it was with a buster? (This is an actual question.)
It would not be the same combo. (This is the actual answer since the choice of pen does not only affect the difficulty.) -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 20:28:39
Interesting analysis taichi, I saw you edited some parts after my comments. Good to see you actually take it seriously. :) I might have some indepth comments on your analysis later, I just wanted to say I don't think kin's execution is as bad as you're saying. We might have different standards though.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:03:44
If Kin wins against s777, it will be the rebirth of the korean style under Kin's banner, like how power tricking became outrageous after the 09 wt... oh man, this is quite an upset.
taichi1082 wrote: Anyways, my thoughts on the match Kin vs. Supawit: http://www.psws-blog.de/2011/05/07/supawit-vs-kin-in-depth-analysis/?lang=en Everyone may feel free to comment - or better yet: explain to me why Kins combo is better than Supawits (keeping in mind that the pen is no argument)
think happy thoughts and count to 10... ur gonna attack the judging because your fav. spinner lost then it's time to get some fresh air.. -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:09:01
i am very, very annoyed will do a better analysis later =__=" anyway, i guess at least PS may take a different route to what's been happening for the past 2 years or so...but having noobs learn triangle pass 234 and breaking their fingers to get flush sonics before learning thumbaround isn't that appealing either... congrats s777 and kin anyway
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:15:24
i.suk wrote: i am very, very annoyed will do a better analysis later =__=" anyway, i guess at least PS may take a different route to what's been happening for the past 2 years or so...but having noobs learn triangle pass 234 and breaking their fingers to get flush sonics before learning thumbaround isn't that appealing either... congrats s777 and kin anyway
at least it will be something different :) i've grown quite bored of the present -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:19:25
Stare;92121]If Kin wins against s777, it will be the rebirth of the korean style under Kin's banner, like how power tricking became outrageous after the 09 wt... [/QUOTE] Kin does not spin korean style at all. [QUOTE=Stare wrote: ur gonna attack the judging because your fav. spinner lost then it's time to get some fresh air..
I understand your assumption but this has nothing to do with my personal preferences. I like them both (not like that matters anyways lol). -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:20:50
taichi1082 wrote: Kin does not spin korean style at all. I understand your assumption but this has nothing to do with my personal preferences. I like them both (not like that matters anyways lol).
i see nothing said about kin other than “spammy” and “not difficult or innovative.”... how is this in depth at all? -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:26:20
I actually pointed out several noteworthy elements, such as the triangle-pass, the baktap, the switch rex-trick (followed by x1213s wiper-minicombo) and of course the ending. The main reason Supawit has "more text" is, that his combo is richer of noteworthy elements.
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Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:30:01
taichi1082 wrote: I actually pointed out several noteworthy elements, such as the triangle-pass, the baktap, the switch rex-trick (followed by x1213s wiper-minicombo) and of course the ending. The main reason Supawit has "more text" is, that his combo is richer of noteworthy elements.
wtf is an x1213 wiper-minicombo? -
Date: Sat, May 7 2011 23:32:54
Stare wrote: wtf is an x1213 wiper-minicombo?
It is a variation of several wipers after the Rex Trick, done by x1213 in the previous round. Eriror pointed that out, since my breakdown lacked detail. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 00:09:55
Gotta agree with you man. All this power trick spamming is boring. I'm liking the new move towards linkages and unorthodox trick. I'm sad snow lost. He took a real risk with the 2p2h spinning and it was one of the coolest 2p2h spinning I've seen but it didn't pay off. I was looking forward to more videos from him. Ah, oh well. GO KIN. IT'S THE RETURN OF THE MX ERA AND KIN SHALL LEAD THE WAY.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 00:40:42
this is ridiculous 9.5 to 5.5? supawit was a lot better than kin.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 00:43:29
YESH S777 vs KIN IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 00:58:40
wow, the result is shocking me (snow and supawit) but yeah, go go go! GO FOR KIN!
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 01:14:36
Snow is beaten by S777? No no no, unacceptable!!! IMO, this is only caused by 2 reasons. First, S777 is much more famous than Snow, you guys know what I am talking about. Second, not many people/groups want to see that the final happens between two chinese psers. If that does happen, people will feel embarrassed, really.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 01:24:03
thediy wrote: Snow is beaten by S777? No no no, unacceptable!!! IMO, this is only caused by 2 reasons. First, S777 is much more famous than Snow, you guys know what I am talking about. Second, not many people/groups want to see that the final happens between two chinese psers. If that does happen, people will feel embarrassed, really.
i know youre a mod on psh and want to support the chinese people. WERE NOT THAT RACIST, IM CHINESE AND I SUPPORT SNOW but it is true taht snow is not as famous but its the lack of experience, I bet you that he will be in the wc12 for PSH. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 01:40:36
snow... nooo... all hope.. is gone...... X.X
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 01:48:31
thediy wrote: Snow is beaten by S777? No no no, unacceptable!!! IMO, this is only caused by 2 reasons. First, S777 is much more famous than Snow, you guys know what I am talking about. Second, not many people/groups want to see that the final happens between two chinese psers. If that does happen, people will feel embarrassed, really.
1. Honestly, you guys are really only looking at one side of snow's combo. Sure, the 2p2h stuff was cool and everything, but what about the stuff in-between? First grade level filler and extremely extremely sloppy execution (think Minwoo pre-WT09, and then worse). 2. If you look at the results, HKPSA abstained from voting altogether. TWPS voted for Supawit127 and s777. PSH voted for kin. 2 out of the 3 votes submitted by the "Chinese" boards were for non-Chinese spinners. Furthermore, if you really want to expand your definition of Chinese to include the population in Malaysia, MYPSC voted for snow and Supawit127. That's 3 out of 5 votes for non-Chinese spinners. The second argument above is utter BS. If you want to argue that somewhere, take that to TWPS. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 01:59:23
HELLL YEAH!!! I TOLD YOU KIN FOR THE WIN~~!!!!!! Kin :wub:
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:08:29
Supawit .... OMG .... Unbelievable :| 9.5 - 5.5 is totally unpredictable :| Anyway, good luck Kin and s777 :)
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:24:22
good luck to kin and s777 and snow you re one of the best :D
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:29:00
I LOVE YOU SUPAWIT127 ♥.♥
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:29:09
snow and supawit127 were the best, and will always be. ^_^
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:44:17
I don't know how 1 hand spinners can beat ambidextrous spinners BY A LONG SHOT... Well anyway, go s777!!!
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:48:05
kin ftw!<3
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 02:52:33
Snow lost! D: NOOOOOOO!!! I hope Kin will win WT11! GOOOO KIIINN!!! <3
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 03:13:51
oh seriously. don't tell me they took the pen into consideration-________________- you know what I'm talking about just a few triangle passes is definitely unable to knock down supawit127.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 03:26:45
HOLY FUCKING SHIT. I'M GOING TO GO BUY A LOTTO TICKET.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 06:14:00
Dammit. At least a 7-6 for snow and s777. wtf. And supawit. I...arghh nevermind :\
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 08:55:06
nooooo, supawit!!!
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 10:17:11
@Zombo this hasn't been too much of an issue, or hasn't poked it's head out as an issue in prior rounds, but how much does the technical qualities of camera play into judging presentation looking at comments of the fpsb judges and taichi's blog comments, one fpsb judge deducts points for quote "too much luminocity" (over exposure) and taichi mentions the framerates of the two spinners unless everyone records using 5Ds, you cannot change the framerate. its either 30fps for US/most of asia (supawit, tachi mentioning his cam was "faster") or 25fps for europe, and HK, seeing as its a british colon (kin, with taichi mentioning it "could be faster) granted, at 30fps, fast movement looks cleaner and smoother, but this is still a very amateur level of "sport" thus, webcams, or HD handicams at most being common equipment. the only way europe/HK can get a 30fps cam is to import it, or, fork out 2 grand + on pro/semi pro cameras. again with exposure, it is very hard to control it on a handycam, and impossible on a webcam. again, if pen spinning was at a more professional level, supawit may invest in a specialised desk where his lamp would be a foot further away from him, and put on some diffusion, but it is not. unless it is WAY too dark, or way too bright, enough to burn out/crush details (of the spinning may i add), then it could be a problem, but the exposure on supa's vid was quite acceptable at this level what i am getting at here, is that camera equipment is being judged with the assumption that something can be done about it. i personally think that the only aspect of camera that can and should be judged is lighting, adequate enough so that spinning is visible, and the angle. the rest are, at this amateur level, fairly uncontrolable in regards to the results of the match, would have liked snow to win, but s777 deservedly won kin/supa, i would say supa should have won it, i tried to play devils advocate and search through the comments, but taichi's comments on his blog were very convincing
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:01:24
about Snow's loss, I think that it's just because S777 is better than snow. S777 had incredible linkages, perfect smoothness and good creativity. He's getting better round after round. Snow got a great 2P2H combom perfectly controll, which were really hard to do it smoothly (and he did it), but the linkages were just OK. I mean, his previous combos were even better than this one. Also, it seems that Snow run out of idea for his combo. -------------- Moreover, if Supawit lost with one of his best powertrick bombos ever, then how could such a combo with simple powertricks like Snow's beat S777.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:10:25
k-ryder wrote: what i am getting at here, is that camera equipment is being judged with the assumption that something can be done about it. i personally think that the only aspect of camera that can and should be judged is lighting, adequate enough so that spinning is visible, and the angle. the rest are, at this amateur level, fairly uncontrolable
Good point. However, consider the following: Smoothness can only be judged if the camera is fast enough. Very slight changes in speed, choppy charges and so on can only be seen if a high framerate is given. I wouldn't go as far as to say Kins framerate was too low but if you take a look at supawit - even though his video is a bit overexposed, motions appear a lot smoother. I wouldn't withdraw a point for either of those flaws. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:14:28
kin vs s777 what a shocking and outstanding result ...
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:20:34
yea s777 epic win (: ( snow was also good ^^ ) but Supawit should have won o__o !!! i explain how judges have failed : i see difficulty level at the same for kin and supawit ?,? wait ! i take buster cyl, i'm unable do begin his combo, and unable to do the finisher ( extreme hardd O_O ) i take normal pencil ( pencil from sunrise JEB ) i can do triangle pass 234 and others tricks , maybe their is the problem ? o_O !! Kin combos with mx is not harder than supawit just because: Kin CAN'T DO supawit 's combo with MX , no, he can't that's why you can't says is combo is harder than supawit one, and i'm pretty sure that he couldn't do supawit 's combo with buster cyl anymore.... now time to CREATIVITY : supawit showes us a new finisher . ok . Kin showes us some tricks that we have seen at round 1 ,2 , 3 , 4 and nothing more, not even a single new trick... but judges decided triangle pass are creative, even for the 5th time... T______T what's the f'u'c'k ???? the one good point for Kin is maybe the "clear camera " but this is subjective, cause some people doesn't like Kin's style anymore. anyway good luck to s777, he will face those amazing and creative Triangle pass o_O
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:25:25
taichi1082;92352]I wouldn't go as far as to say Kins framerate was too low but if you take a look at supawit - even though his video is a bit overexposed, motions appear a lot smoother.[/QUOTE] i'm saying that kin may want a better framerate, but the technical availabilities in his country/region only allows for 25fps cameras, and no one expects anyone to go out and either buy a 5D, or import the same handicam from america just for the capabilities to record in 30fps therefore, no matter how much 30fps would be better in judging smootheness, it is unreasonable to penalise those in europe/PAL countires if they somehow manage to shoot in something like 16fps, THEN it should be a concern [QUOTE=taichi1082 wrote: [B] I wouldn't withdraw a point for either of those flaws.[/B]
that was all i was looking for, but still looking to find confirmation with zombo, and to point out what i said earlier in the post clearly to him/potential judges in the case that it is not taken into concern -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:39:00
k-ryder wrote: therefore, no matter how much 30fps would be better in judging smootheness, it is unreasonable to penalise those in europe/PAL countires if they somehow manage to shoot in something like 16fps, THEN it should be a concern
Thats not really consistent. Where do you draw the line? Spinners in africa (lolsorry) may only be able to afford a 15fps 320*240 camera from china that has jumps every 2 seconds. Where would you set the minimum requirement? By the way - I'm guessing that in one or two years everyone will have a good framerate. Cams are getting cheaper and better. My 10€ Lifecam VX1000 can shoot 30fps already and is several years old already. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 11:46:50
Kin mastered his Triangle passes in an incredible way: T-123, reversed; T-234, reversed; lefthanded triangle, righthanded triangle, reversed. But clearly, It's nothing new since bonkura used it 4 YEARS A GO, and since then, many spinners can do it easily. Just see, Peem won WT 2009 and just few months later, we sew Haitua, multi busts, Peem's Palm spin, Parn new... everywhere. Then how can the judges say that Kin were more creative just because he spent 4 years to show us what we can do with one single trick in a WT, meanwhile Supawit spent few months on average to show us a new linakge, a new (power)trick, and a new level of imagination. ----------- To be honest, I don't like Supawit. He may not be the best spinner; but he deserves to be in the final.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 12:48:56
welllllll...if anyone knows a little about me they shoud know im very happy with s777 in teh final :D :D :D GO s777! I believe in you! Good job to snow! You are still one of my favourite spinners! right. now kin vs supa debate ----------------------------------- it is clear the that the lightness of the pen has been taken into consideration. It resulsted in the wow factor for s777 in first round with comssa, and mx from kin all the way. I think (once again, as ive stated before in a video) that there should be a well defined limit/some sort of factor on the pen used IF judging shuold continue this way. What i believe when it comes to pen spinning is that pens that arnt within reason should be CLEARLY defined. IE if a pen spinner used a 1 metre pen and did an awesome fingerless combo shuold he get marked down? On what criteria should he marked down on? it does not say. A ratio between hand size and pen size should possibly be made. People who say there shouldnt be a limit are crazy, what if people bring in a 2 metre stick like i said before. Now because these rules were never defined (an increassing factor for difficulty due to pen weight) then i really believe supawit should have won. IM even a huge s777 fan, and i dont really do power tricks at all but know for a fact supawit had a better combo. Its also very interseting to see which countries seem to enjoy mx's. JEB was a no brainer, etc. ---------------------------- and serves all the people right who were giving s777 bad feedbacks in the round 2 vid. yeah [B]suck IT trolls[/B]! s777's in the finals.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 13:04:06
All 3 WTs the finals have been between Europe and Asia. B)
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 13:13:33
A13x wrote: yea s777 epic win (: ( snow was also good ^^ ) but Supawit should have won o__o !!! i explain how judges have failed : i see difficulty level at the same for kin and supawit ?,? wait ! i take buster cyl, i'm unable do begin his combo, and unable to do the finisher ( extreme hardd O_O ) i take normal pencil ( pencil from sunrise JEB ) i can do triangle pass 234 and others tricks , maybe their is the problem ? o_O !! Kin combos with mx is not harder than supawit just because: Kin CAN'T DO supawit 's combo with MX , no, he can't that's why you can't says is combo is harder than supawit one, and i'm pretty sure that he couldn't do supawit 's combo with buster cyl anymore....
Disagreed. Then again, we're taking the pen into this. Let me explain this to see if people finally understand...If I've been spinning the same pen for ages, even if it's an unmodded, even if it's a stick, even if it's a pikachu with tips on both sides, that pen will be easier to use for me since I've got really used to it. Judges don't care about if you can do Triangle Pass with a pencil or not, neither if you take a Buster and you can't do Supawit's starter. I'm pretty sure that, for example, kin and s777 could do good things with a Buster CYL, but their style would be way uglier, the execution will be really different and they will lose part of the 'magic' of their spinning...since they are used to different pens. Every spinner is used to a pen, and that shouldn't be considered by the judges. This is not the Olympic Games and you have to prove that you can do 10 combos with 10 different mods. This is not a talent show. This is the World Tournament. You do what you can with the pen you like and that's all. About the overall results...well, I can understand them. It will be a great final after all. No matter what the results were, people were going to whine...so let's just enjoy this and stop complaining. We are doing no good to the pen spinning scene with this utterly shit :) And rememberSpoiler
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 13:22:21
looking at comments of the fpsb judges and taichi's blog comments, one fpsb judge deducts points for quote "too much luminocity" (over exposure).... i personally think that the only aspect of camera that can and should be judged is lighting, adequate enough so that spinning is visible, and the angle. the rest are, at this amateur level, fairly uncontrolable
By "to much luminocity" I'm sure he meant "to much lighting". Actually these two words mean the same thing for us.and serves all the people right who were giving s777 bad feedbacks in the round 2 vid. yeah suck IT trolls! s777's in the finals.
Actually these people weren't spinners, so they don't really care ; they were just a bunch of people hired by only one hater, known as gisele8, who lured them into disliking S777's vid by promising them porn in return (really smart huh ^^) -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 14:16:26
A13x wrote: judges decided triangle pass are creative, even for the 5th time... T______T what's the f'u'c'k ????
Exactly my point, s777, you got this -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 15:20:07
Zombo，I am X's，my chinese name is 看￠窗前落葉 Youtube name is PshSai. 對不起，我的英語水平只能說上面那兩句 我現在正在不斷的背單詞，但我非常希望發表我的意見 中文能更好的表達我的意思，希望我的意見對你有幫助. Snow的失敗，讓中國的轉筆者對WT非常的失望 中國政府長期的封閉Youtube，使我們與世界的轉筆發生了阻礙 Snow是我們中國在WT唯一的希望，一路上他都非常的努力 在WT之前，他做了非常多的準備，他的“太極手”，是結合了中國的京劇衍變而來. 每一年的世界冠軍，都會引領世界轉筆的潮流 KTH引領了風格，Spinnerpeem引領了難度 今年的WT，如果世界冠軍是S777，你希望全世界的Pser轉筆都要扭來扭去的麼？ 在轉筆界中，風格，難度已經被相繼開發到極限 在轉筆界中，最少人開發的，就是Two hand（雙手） 為什麼每個人在轉筆，都只用一隻手而放棄另一隻手？ 副手同樣是我們的伙伴，兩隻手的結合與分散，都能讓轉筆開發出更多的招式. Snow，不僅讓我看到了中國走向世界之冠的希望 他更讓我看到，轉筆界能有一個新的發展道路，讓轉筆更加的豐富起來的希望 一個世界冠軍，應有舉世無雙的本事，你說是麼？ 相比起半決賽的3個人 S777，沒有任何特點的人，其軟骨流取自於Bonkura但並為超越Bonkura. Supawit127，也是一個沒有任何特點的人，其暴力流取自於 SpinnnerPeem但並未超越SpinnerPeem. Kin，RSVP的確做到了舉世無雙，但是轉筆界不可能去發展RSVP 因為RSVP是一隻非常難轉的筆，即使它能創造Combo難度，但並不能給轉筆帶來任何的進步 就像我和Eagle說，我用筷子轉出Bak fall，也是高難度 但是如果每個人都拿筷子轉，那轉筆就不用發展了. Zombo，你是轉筆界最偉大的人物之一 你對轉筆的熱情能堅持到現在，我看￠窗前落葉對你非常的尊敬 我想不僅是我，包括中國，全世界的Pser也都一樣 我希望你，轉筆界的老大，舉辦一個不失世界水準的世界比賽 不要讓大家都在懷疑你的能力. 現在，各個國家的Pser抱怨聲一片（特別是抱怨裁判的最多） 你是不是應該自我反省一下呢？ 轉筆界偉大的領袖，希望你把轉筆發展得越來越好！ 不要讓全世界的轉筆者都只適應你一個人的口味 太以自我為中心不好，Do you think？
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 15:58:14
Fascinating
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 16:08:01
Can someone translate HuangHuaDa's words? Google translate isn't incredible as far as an important text like that is concerned.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 16:21:12
VikroaL wrote: Disagreed. Then again, we're taking the pen into this. Let me explain this to see if people finally understand...If I've been spinning the same pen for ages, even if it's an unmodded, even if it's a stick, even if it's a pikachu with tips on both sides, that pen will be easier to use for me since I've got really used to it. Judges don't care about if you can do Triangle Pass with a pencil or not, neither if you take a Buster and you can't do Supawit's starter. I'm pretty sure that, for example, kin and s777 could do good things with a Buster CYL, but their style would be way uglier, the execution will be really different and they will lose part of the 'magic' of their spinning...since they are used to different pens. Every spinner is used to a pen, and that shouldn't be considered by the judges. This is not the Olympic Games and you have to prove that you can do 10 combos with 10 different mods. This is not a talent show. This is the World Tournament. You do what you can with the pen you like and that's all. About the overall results...well, I can understand them. It will be a great final after all. No matter what the results were, people were going to whine...so let's just enjoy this and stop complaining. We are doing no good to the pen spinning scene with this utterly shit :) And remember
i just said why i though Supawit was winner easly... just because judges have obviously took the pen used into consideration. Kin combo is for the 5th time using triangle pass wich are not hard, and he gets the same marks like 5/5 as supawit for difficulty, so, again, judges are obviously wrong. and for creativity you don't need to be good at pen spinning to see that's Kin was just puting the same tricks of 1st and 2nd round in different orders,to use for round 3 round 4 round 5 so he can't has any creativity. judges are wrong once again. so of course Kin's victory is just ridiculous, and also, it was just ridiculous to see him at round 4, for the same reasons. seriously, at first round, i loved him, now i'm just totally bored by him. I can't believe that someone could go to WT final by making some boring triangle passes with a mx == -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 17:01:14
Weird, because I think those triangle pass [reverse] variations are ridiculously hard...
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 17:10:51
Erirornal Kraione wrote: Weird, because I think those triangle pass [reverse] variations are ridiculously hard...
I've been thinking this too, especially when they're done on your non-dominant hand. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 17:35:34
Erirornal Kraione wrote: Weird, because I think those triangle pass [reverse] variations are ridiculously hard...
Exclusive gave me the link of that indepth analysis yesterday in TinyChat, I was wondering of the same thing when I saw the sentence that this was easy. Definition of difficulty is pretty much varied and mainly depends on each person. I'm not sure what standards do the WT judges use. But in WT it should be difficulty in 'general' not by each person's opinion, hopefully. I feel regret for letting Supawit posted up that combo. =/ I should really have told him to film a new one because I really had a feeling about this coming event. I don't blame kin because this was a really close match and kin did great. Even if kin lost then I wouldn't surprise either. Both really had a great chance to win. May the best spinner win the WT. I'm now rooting for kin, though. >_> -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 17:53:57
seriously,im gettin fed up with snow's fans '如果世界冠軍是S777，你希望全世界的Pser轉筆都要扭來扭去的麼' "S777，沒有任何特點的人，其軟骨流取自於Bonkura但並為超越Bonkura. " dude,u r pissing me off with ur funny opinions. im a chinese,i do hope that chinese can win wt,but penspinning is not about style only
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 18:24:22
Kay guys, complain all you want but the results won't change. I'm pretty sure you people know that.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 18:37:30
Wind wrote: I'm pretty sure you people know that.
Yes, everyone knows that and it has already been pointed out several times... -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 19:19:29
Basically X said: Snow is innovative because he incorporate traditional hand movements found in chinese arts like tai chi and beijing opera. he said WT has a big impact on the future of pen spinning, because it sets new trends, as observed by KTH and Peem. He said if s777 wins the WT, spinners will copy s777 finger-twisting techniques (it's implied that this is not good). he said difficulty and style were already explored in previous WTs, now it's time to expand 2-hand, going back to 1p1h is a step backward. he said 2-hand can unlock a lot of new tricks he said the other 3 spinners do not compare to snow in their contribution to PS. s777 is a copy of bonkura, supawit is just power tricks, kin is a master of RSVP MX but spinning a RSVP MX doesn't really unlock new tricks, just make old tricks harder. Eagle said bakfall with chopsticks is difficult but it doesn't really do anything for pen spinning. He wants me to run a WT which is not centered around my opinion ------------ 今年WT每轮提前结果公开都没发表自己的评论。跟裁判没有任何的影响。也就是说你想说服的不是我,而是全世界的PSers。我认为今年的Snow还没超过s777,他的连接更结构缺乏. 我希望他能改善自己的弱点。 I have no control on the opinion of the judges, I did not reveal my opinion during this WT. You should convince the whole world, not just me. I think snow has poor linkages and structure. I hope he can improve those aspects.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 19:51:41
Zombo wrote: I have no control on the opinion of the judges, I did not reveal my opinion during this WT. You should convince the whole world, not just me. I think snow has poor linkages and structure. I hope he can improve those aspects.
Ironically, because some other guy last year complained in a post written in Chinese that the Zombo's opinions were affecting the judges. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 20:16:49
A13x wrote: i just said why i though Supawit was winner easly... just because judges have obviously took the pen used into consideration. Kin combo is for the 5th time using triangle pass wich are not hard, and he gets the same marks like 5/5 as supawit for difficulty, so, again, judges are obviously wrong. and for creativity you don't need to be good at pen spinning to see that's Kin was just puting the same tricks of 1st and 2nd round in different orders,to use for round 3 round 4 round 5 so he can't has any creativity. judges are wrong once again. so of course Kin's victory is just ridiculous, and also, it was just ridiculous to see him at round 4, for the same reasons. seriously, at first round, i loved him, now i'm just totally bored by him. I can't believe that someone could go to WT final by making some boring triangle passes with a mx ==
I'm sorry to say this, but I find it hilarious that you say that kin was ridiculous in R4 when tons of people thought the same about you :) You even reuploaded the video to get rid of the negative feedback, dude! Watch your own words :) And it doesn't mean [B]anything[/B] that you can do those Triangle Passes. Just because you can do his combo you think his combo is "boring" and "ridiculous"? What a great impartiality, dude. I don't think there is a criterion at the rules that says "If A13X can do this combo rate it down, it's pretty easy". Moreover, I'm with EK and AwonW in this one, I also thought that those variations of the Triangle Pass were ridiculously hard. I find it very disrespectful to kin to say that he is in the finals due to "boring Triangle Passes with an MX". I'm not going to analyse every combo from kin in this WT, but definitely I can say that he deserves to be, at least, in the semifinals. And I'm happy to see him in the finals as well. He has done far more than "boring and ridiculous" combos in this WT, just open up your narrow head and get rid of that strong bias you have. That's all my opinion in this debate. Also, the point brought up by X is really interesting to read. To be honest, I did not know at all that Snow was using hand movements from tai chi or the Beijing Opera, but to be true, I find it really risky to use elements like those, because obviously not every judge knows about the Beijing Opera. I mean, personally, I knew about the Beijing Opera but I never thought that Snow was using elements like the ones used in there. Pretty interesting opinion, but way biased and harsh to the rest of contestants. So, as I said in my previous post, everybody should stop whining about the decisions - they're just damaging the image of the pen spinning and disrespecting the spinners. Results are out and you can do nothing about it, just let it happen. Peace <3 -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 20:39:40
VikroaL wrote: So, as I said in my previous post, everybody should stop whining about the decisions - they're just damaging the image of the pen spinning and disrespecting the spinners. Results are out and you can do nothing about it, just let it happen. Peace <3
Why do people think stuff doesn't matter just because the results are already out? This isn't going to be the last WT and if we all keep quiet and nobody says his opinion, nothing will change. Think about it - how good/prestigious is a WT if so many people complain or are unsatisfied with the results? -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 20:49:51
taichi1082 wrote: Why do people think stuff doesn't matter just because the results are already out? This isn't going to be the last WT and if we all keep quiet and nobody says his opinion, nothing will change. Think about it - how good/prestigious is a WT if so many people complain or are unsatisfied with the results?
I knew that exactly you would come with this point. Obviously constructive criticism is useful; if we say what's wrong, what'd be good and how can it be changed, it's pretty much the best reaction we can give. I'm pretty sure that Zombo was not expecting this Tournament to be flawless and perfect, that's obvious. But, the 4 spinners in this semifinals have a legion of fans and a good amount of haters...I think that if Supawit and Snow were in the finals, lots of people would be complaining here about how unfair, unbelievable and shocking the results are, and you are aware of that. Talking is the best way to find a better judging system for the upcoming World Tournaments. Posts like "the judges are bastards" "who chose 1 year judges" "judges must be blind" "this is utter shit" "I'm not even watching the finals" "The WT has failed again"...posts like this do absolutely nothing for the good future of the WT. If so many people are that much of visionaries, they should be opening threads and debating ways to improve the judging system, which obviously can be improved, though I really don't know how. @Breezy: If you don't like reading I cordially invite you to push the "Ignore User" button. Thanks for your useful contribution. -
Date: Sun, May 8 2011 21:35:25
I will agree that when the system is broken or at the very least imperfect, it is important to point it out as early as possible. Waiting too long (after the results, in this case), will only deepen the cracks. There are then two key points here: How is the system broken, and how can you fix it? To address the first issue, I will ask, is the system really that broken? Judging from the reaction, highlighted by words such as "ridiculous", "non-sensical results", etc, it seems that quite a number of people seem to think that everything is as wrong as it possibly could be. I'm not going to write 3 pages on this, so let me summarize it this way: can't you people bother to unplug your ears and open your eyes just enough to see that NOT EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU, because penspinning is well, ART, and disagreements are NOT caused by the "system" being at fault?. Like obviously not everybody is going to be unanimous on who is the best. Again, I'm not ignoring the possibility that the judging scheme may be non-ideal (not that it could possibly be), but by playing victim and blaming the loss of your preferred spinner is again, unsportsmanlike, detrimental to penspinning. So let's look at the second issue. How do you fix it? Well, let me tell you how not to fix it. Insult people, put them in the defensive, have them defend their own arguments, which, in effects, deepens their own beliefs. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. Now, I do realize that the situation isn't that bad, there isn't really that much flame flying around. But in most cases, the people trying to "demonstrate" the flaws in the system as using words in a completely immature way. They are not being constructive. If you want to bring change to the world, explain, elaborate, be logical. Don't whine! If you are really a rational, unbiased person, and really want to make your point that the judges are biased/judging scheme is inadequate/whatever, prove your point. Gets results. It does not matter a bit whether you think you are actually right or not. What matters is if you can convince people that you are right. Emphasis on convince PEOPLE. Whining, bashing other people for their opinions, blaming everything on Zombo without whom none of this would have taken place does not achieve anything. And if it does not achieve anything, it's not "proving your point", it's just self-gratification. Disclaimer: This post is NOT addressed to anyone in particular, thank you. Actually, by the time I got here, I'm not too sure why I wrote all of this, but anyways.
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 21:46:15
the problem is that theres no time for the organizers (ie me) to verify that all the judges are adequate, it is built on trust that communities will assign competent judges that know how to read the rules, maybe in the future there will be penalty like: "if your judges dont put the effort necessary to judge properly, you will be disqualified from next World event"
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 23:57:25
well i think zombo is doing a pretty awesome job handling like 100 spinners who all come from different countries and SPEAK DIFFERENT LANGUAGES. and to "X" from psh. Far out, how the hell were we suppose to know that he uses techniques from beigin opera and tai chi? Maybe snow should have said so in the beginning of his combo. You think s777 is a bonkura copy? Really? I find snow's tyle really similar to pyralux and minwoo. :/ have you seen bonkura ever do an inverse flush sonic? have you seen bonkura invesre side palm busts? NO! and You cant define "Your Direction" of pen spinning to be "superior" or "the correct way" to the other. There is no "right direction" to pen spinning, people should just spin the way they like it. s777 does not guarentee a follow of all spinners copying the style, and in fact he is against it. I think 90% of us think snow is an amazing spinner,its not like we hate snow, most of us love snow's combos. :/
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Date: Sun, May 8 2011 23:57:40
taichi1082 wrote: Thats not really consistent. Where do you draw the line? Spinners in africa (lolsorry) may only be able to afford a 15fps 320*240 camera from china that has jumps every 2 seconds. Where would you set the minimum requirement? By the way - I'm guessing that in one or two years everyone will have a good framerate. Cams are getting cheaper and better. My 10€ Lifecam VX1000 can shoot 30fps already and is several years old already.
quoting this a bit late, but i just need to clarify myself it is not a problem that european spinners cannot AFFORD a 30fps camera, it is that it is not sold in europe. In early television, video recording was split into 2 systems, the PAL (europe, 25 fps) and NTSC (USA/Japan, 30 fps). These frame rates were based on the frequency of the country's power supply. In 60Hz american grid, the 24 standard for film could not be broadcast properly because of sync issues, therefore raised to 30, and likewise with PAL in europe to 25. These standards have stuck, and even in digital videomaking, most camcorders are limited to the system of their country. So you cannot buy a 30 fps camera in europe, and likewise, a 25fps camera is not available in America. Therefore, it is unfair on european spinners if we start using 30fps as a minimum standard EDIT: if any further argument is necessary, i think we should do this in another thread -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 04:25:20
a lillte things about myself first...im not surprised about my loss in this round, my mistakes on execution is deadly aganist s777, and what i want to say is my understanding to ps. i choose the most broaden angle to show myself so its a little siily to use detailed linkage between fingers. in fact, my choice set me to show ps in another way in which arm movements and new ideas dominant whole combo. its just like those combos domomanted by powertricks or interesting linkages. my aim to attend this game is not to win but show you guys my ideas, new and intriging. i hope new psers could broaden our penspinning field in a way our predecessors did, and 2 hands is the way i choose to do so. i believe the tricks in one hand have been exhaused or will be so one day while 2h2p is a field no one has ever deeply explored. besides, i suppose the best way to let more people know ps is presenting it on stage and it needs us to come up with more ideas on big movement... well, something about rule. i believe our rule is not integrated and mature. my suggestion is to set the rule in a more detailed way, including the weigh of mods, socres depend on the things you do. ie, i do a new trick, then i can earn 5 credits, i do a powetrick, according to how hard it is, i can earn a certain creadits. finally plus all of these and get the score...just a suggestion...anyway, setting the rule is hard but it should be amended in some fields, since the complaints have been emgering from hal vs baimai. am i the first guy of the 4 to post here? XD
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 05:58:17
snow wrote: a lillte things about myself first...im not surprised about my loss in this round, my mistakes on execution is deadly aganist s777, and what i want to say is my understanding to ps. i choose the most broaden angle to show myself so its a little siily to use detailed linkage between fingers. in fact, my choice set me to show ps in another way in which arm movements and new ideas dominant whole combo. its just like those combos domomanted by powertricks or interesting linkages. my aim to attend this game is not to win but show you guys my ideas, new and intriging. i hope new psers could broaden our penspinning field in a way our predecessors did, and 2 hands is the way i choose to do so. i believe the tricks in one hand have been exhaused or will be so one day while 2h2p is a field no one has ever deeply explored. besides, i suppose the best way to let more people know ps is presenting it on stage and it needs us to come up with more ideas on big movement... well, something about rule. i believe our rule is not integrated and mature. my suggestion is to set the rule in a more detailed way, including the weigh of mods, socres depend on the things you do. ie, i do a new trick, then i can earn 5 credits, i do a powetrick, according to how hard it is, i can earn a certain creadits. finally plus all of these and get the score...just a suggestion...anyway, setting the rule is hard but it should be amended in some fields, since the complaints have been emgering from hal vs baimai. am i the first guy of the 4 to post here? XD
Good attitude, snow~~!!! ^^ We will always support you. Although you are beaten, you are not defeated in any way. Way to go, bro!!! BTW, I think supawit already posted in the thread "final matchup" haha. And lots of PSH psers already called out their opinions here. Don't worry, we big fans know that you are a best (or beast? lol). --- By L-in -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 06:12:37
I'm pretty sure the right phrase in that sense would be beast, lol. Now that i observe snow's videos more closely, i can see what people mean about incorporating the arm movements, etc. I remember some of them from when i used to do tai chi. (Hehe, now a wing chun addict) Honestly, i think that there will always be issues with competitions like these because people have different opinions on what is good spinning, as some people thought that spinnerpeem's spinning was better than minwoos. (I AM NOT TAKING A SIDE HERE) “雪” 明年一定要在參加這個比賽，答應我！ though snow is from china, idk if he can read my traditional :sorry:
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 06:42:57
PREDATORNET wrote: I'm pretty sure the right phrase in that sense would be beast, lol. Now that i observe snow's videos more closely, i can see what people mean about incorporating the arm movements, etc. I remember some of them from when i used to do tai chi. (Hehe, now a wing chun addict) Honestly, i think that there will always be issues with competitions like these because people have different opinions on what is good spinning, as some people thought that spinnerpeem's spinning was better than minwoos. (I AM NOT TAKING A SIDE HERE) “雪” 明年一定要在參加這個比賽，答應我！ though snow is from china, idk if he can read my traditional :sorry:
sure, i probabely attend it next year…btw, my english is poor XD -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 07:27:14
k-ryder wrote: quoting this a bit late, but i just need to clarify myself it is not a problem that european spinners cannot AFFORD a 30fps camera, it is that it is not sold in europe. In early television, video recording was split into 2 systems, the PAL (europe, 25 fps) and NTSC (USA/Japan, 30 fps). These frame rates were based on the frequency of the country's power supply. In 60Hz american grid, the 24 standard for film could not be broadcast properly because of sync issues, therefore raised to 30, and likewise with PAL in europe to 25. These standards have stuck, and even in digital videomaking, most camcorders are limited to the system of their country. So you cannot buy a 30 fps camera in europe, and likewise, a 25fps camera is not available in America. Therefore, it is unfair on european spinners if we start using 30fps as a minimum standard
What? This is wrong in so many ways... First of all, 60hz/50hz isn't the same as 25frames per sec/30frames per sec. Webcams work progressive (not Interlaced like old TVs). Also this has NOTHING to do with television standards and furthermore the choice of 50hz for PAL has nothing to do with the countries power supply. Funfact: France uses SECAM Oh and something else: 24 Fields(!) per second (cinema) has not been risen ever since. The use a technique called pulldown to sync it for television, look up Telecine. /But now I realize you are only talking about camcorders: Why is that? My cellphone records 30fps, so does my webcam and the webcams of all my other german friends. They are not only less expensive but also better for penspinning as you have instant results. But even with camcorders, they aren't limited on that. BBR and thumbskiller both use a camera (available in germany) that records from 30-120fps. And wow, I also wonder why you are so fixed on these two framerates. My old Nokia N82 records in 25fps, still the videos look a lot smoother than Kins. For several reasons, most importantly motion blur. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 07:39:27
because in HK, we buy cheap cams ($40 HKD ~ $5.5 USD) reason: 1) its just the trend to buy cheap electronics there 2) most suppliers are from china 3) small companies in china cant afford to sell internationally, but quality is somehow as good as other known cams 4) no one in HK will pay for 100 USD cam when theres a cheaper alternative of 5.5 USD cam and the quality is just slightly worse. 5) also more durable. PrinceXD
taichi1082 wrote: What? This is wrong in so many ways... First of all, 60hz/50hz isn't the same as 25frames per sec/30frames per sec. Webcams work progressive (not Interlaced like old TVs). Also this has NOTHING to do with television standards and furthermore the choice of 50hz for PAL has nothing to do with the countries power supply. Oh and something else: 24 Fields(!) per second (cinema) has not been risen ever since. The use a technique called pulldown to sync it for television, look up Telecine. /But now I realize you are only talking about camcorders: Why is that? My cellphone records 30fps, so does my webcam and the webcams of all my other german friends. They are not only less expensive but also better for penspinning as you have instant results. But even with camcorders, they aren't limited on that. BBR and thumbskiller both use a camera (available in germany) that records from 30-120fps. And wow, I also wonder why you are so fixed on these two framerates. My old Nokia N82 records in 25fps, still the videos look a lot smoother than Kins. For several reasons, most importantly motion blur.
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 07:49:58
HuangHuaDa wrote: Zombo，I am X's，my chinese name is 看￠窗前落葉 Youtube name is PshSai. 對不起，我的英語水平只能說上面那兩句 我現在正在不斷的背單詞，但我非常希望發表我的意見 中文能更好的表達我的意思，希望我的意見對你有幫助. Snow的失敗，讓中國的轉筆者對WT非常的失望 中國政府長期的封閉Youtube，使我們與世界的轉筆發生了阻礙 Snow是我們中國在WT唯一的希望，一路上他都非常的努力 在WT之前，他做了非常多的準備，他的“太極手”，是結合了中國的京劇衍變而來. 每一年的世界冠軍，都會引領世界轉筆的潮流 KTH引領了風格，Spinnerpeem引領了難度 今年的WT，如果世界冠軍是S777，你希望全世界的Pser轉筆都要扭來扭去的麼？ 在轉筆界中，風格，難度已經被相繼開發到極限 在轉筆界中，最少人開發的，就是Two hand（雙手） 為什麼每個人在轉筆，都只用一隻手而放棄另一隻手？ 副手同樣是我們的伙伴，兩隻手的結合與分散，都能讓轉筆開發出更多的招式. Snow，不僅讓我看到了中國走向世界之冠的希望 他更讓我看到，轉筆界能有一個新的發展道路，讓轉筆更加的豐富起來的希望 一個世界冠軍，應有舉世無雙的本事，你說是麼？ 相比起半決賽的3個人 S777，沒有任何特點的人，其軟骨流取自於Bonkura但並為超越Bonkura. Supawit127，也是一個沒有任何特點的人，其暴力流取自於 SpinnnerPeem但並未超越SpinnerPeem. Kin，RSVP的確做到了舉世無雙，但是轉筆界不可能去發展RSVP 因為RSVP是一隻非常難轉的筆，即使它能創造Combo難度，但並不能給轉筆帶來任何的進步 就像我和Eagle說，我用筷子轉出Bak fall，也是高難度 但是如果每個人都拿筷子轉，那轉筆就不用發展了. Zombo，你是轉筆界最偉大的人物之一 你對轉筆的熱情能堅持到現在，我看￠窗前落葉對你非常的尊敬 我想不僅是我，包括中國，全世界的Pser也都一樣 我希望你，轉筆界的老大，舉辦一個不失世界水準的世界比賽 不要讓大家都在懷疑你的能力. 現在，各個國家的Pser抱怨聲一片（特別是抱怨裁判的最多） 你是不是應該自我反省一下呢？ 轉筆界偉大的領袖，希望你把轉筆發展得越來越好！ 不要讓全世界的轉筆者都只適應你一個人的口味 太以自我為中心不好，Do you think？
我只是一個新手 沒有權去評別人轉筆 可是我說啊 你參加這個比賽便順服評判的判決吧 難到你又想全世界以"太極手"轉筆嗎? 我認為這些主觀的東西並無絕對的"好"與"不好" 只有"喜歡"與"不喜歡" 你也不要因中國的代表輸了就抱怨 I must say that I am just a beginner And I don't have the right to judge how everyone spins In fact I think all of you spins very good. But what I want to say is You join the WT, then listen to the judges. These artistic things don't have "good" and "not good" But only "likes" and "dislike". Don't complain about the pser you like didn't have the result you want. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 07:54:33
@snow congratulations for being brave enough to try new ideas and push the boundaries of pen spinning :) we need more spinners who think like that ^^ you succeeded in promoting your vision of 2p2h spinning to the world, so it still counts as a 'win' x) i also agree that 1p1h spinning has the potential to be 'exhausted' one day, or at least the rate of progress/expansion in 1p1h is slowing down (when that day will come, no one knows...but seeing the skills of s777, vicgotgame, spinnerpeem etc, it seems there aren't any 'revolutionary' ideas in 1p1h for quite a while, i think...in the history of PS, there are probably many people who thought there is a 'limit', only to be proven wrong a short time later)
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 10:00:40
A13x wrote: yea s777 epic win (: ( snow was also good ^^ ) but Supawit should have won o__o !!! i explain how judges have failed : i see difficulty level at the same for kin and supawit ?,? wait ! i take buster cyl, i'm unable do begin his combo, and unable to do the finisher ( extreme hardd O_O ) i take normal pencil ( pencil from sunrise JEB ) i can do triangle pass 234 and others tricks , maybe their is the problem ? o_O !! Kin combos with mx is not harder than supawit just because: Kin CAN'T DO supawit 's combo with MX , no, he can't that's why you can't says is combo is harder than supawit one, and i'm pretty sure that he couldn't do supawit 's combo with buster cyl anymore.... now time to CREATIVITY : supawit showes us a new finisher . ok . Kin showes us some tricks that we have seen at round 1 ,2 , 3 , 4 and nothing more, not even a single new trick... but judges decided triangle pass are creative, even for the 5th time... T______T what's the f'u'c'k ???? the one good point for Kin is maybe the "clear camera " but this is subjective, cause some people doesn't like Kin's style anymore. anyway good luck to s777, he will face those amazing and creative Triangle pass o_O
Kinda agree with you man. Triangle Passes are hard, but seeing it like 5 times is just boring. But I still have respect on kin's victory. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 10:01:33
i believe that snow will set up a new trend with 2h2p r1,he wants to present a simple combination of two hands r2,he show up a combination of 2h1p r3,he lets everyone to know that it's possible to do spreads with both hand r4,he did the variations using a pen hitting towards another pen r5,he show that it's possible to do 2h aeriels at once r6,he had actually plan something which is incredible,unfortunately,he coudln't show it up this is what snow says,he really work very hard for this wt,and that's why everyone in psh are dissapointed for the results
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 11:09:43
snow lost,i am very unhappy......snow is very very good,but s777 is better..... i think....supporting someone has no problem.....but we shouldn't say others are bad....... snow大繼續開發2h2p的新領域,小弟一定會繼續支持你!!!!!!(當然也支持大佬kin)
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 13:40:22
r96;92638]i believe that snow will set up a new trend with 2h2p r1,he wants to present a simple combination of two hands r2,he show up a combination of 2h1p r3,he lets everyone to know that it's possible to do spreads with both hand r4,he did the variations using a pen hitting towards another pen r5,he show that it's possible to do 2h aeriels at once r6,he had actually plan something which is incredible,unfortunately,he coudln't show it up this is what snow says,he really work very hard for this wt,and that's why everyone in psh are dissapointed for the results[/QUOTE] maybe they are disapointed cause they do not know anything about pyralux, who exactly invented all mouvement before but in 1p1h, so,people who already saw pyralux before are less impressed, cause we just have to see a 2p2h version... people should see pyralux's ones before saying i'm a hater. anyway i think Snow is very good in 2p2h, of course, the last combo vs s777 was epic, this was a perfect synchronisation. [QUOTE=VikroaL wrote: I'm sorry to say this, but I find it hilarious that you say that kin was ridiculous in R4 when tons of people thought the same about you :) You even reuploaded the video to get rid of the negative feedback, dude! Watch your own words :) And it doesn't mean [B]anything[/B] that you can do those Triangle Passes. Just because you can do his combo you think his combo is "boring" and "ridiculous"? What a great impartiality, dude. I don't think there is a criterion at the rules that says "If A13X can do this combo rate it down, it's pretty easy". Moreover, I'm with EK and AwonW in this one, I also thought that those variations of the Triangle Pass were ridiculously hard. I find it very disrespectful to kin to say that he is in the finals due to "boring Triangle Passes with an MX". I'm not going to analyse every combo from kin in this WT, but definitely I can say that he deserves to be, at least, in the semifinals. And I'm happy to see him in the finals as well. He has done far more than "boring and ridiculous" combos in this WT, just open up your narrow head and get rid of that strong bias you have. That's all my opinion in this debate.
some people though my combo was ridiculous, but none of them are able to do it. so of course, saying that something is ridiculous or easy when your not able to do it has some "non sense " ok ? and because you think that this trick is hard, this mean that it is hard ? XD how can you expected from me to say this is hard if think it's not == difficulty is subjective maybe...and i find supawit combos hard because i can't do it. i'm only bored of things i can do since a while, and this is the same for everyone, most beginers are bored of sonics... and evolution should me bored of busting i have the right to get bored of triangle passes , many people blame supawit for using power tricks, and now, Kin these triangle passes ( with variations ) but still triangle passes, and you don't blame him. to be not biased, you should blame both of them. to be honest i found his first combo amazing, and i'm now very disapointed to him again, and again, and again , and again with something like before == and in the final we will have triangle passes ? with mx ? ( maybe with a different color ok ^^' ) i hope he will change, at begining i loved his style, but now you know my point of view, it will change, if Kin change triangle passes for a new and creative concept. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 14:03:44
I hope both of them (s777 and kin) arent bothered with our discussion here lets just hope they will make an insane final round :D
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 16:20:52
A13x wrote: maybe they are disapointed cause they do not know anything about pyralux, who exactly invented all mouvement before but in 1p1h, so,people who already saw pyralux before are less impressed, cause we just have to see a 2p2h version... people should see pyralux's ones before saying i'm a hater. anyway i think Snow is very good in 2p2h, of course, the last combo vs s777 was epic, this was a perfect synchronisation.
Of course we PSH people saw pyralux. Pyralux is nicknamed "Swivel King" there, and we respect him and his spinning very much. ^_^ However, snow not only uses swivel series tricks, he also combines them with power tricks, fantastic styles, new thoughts, and maybe some Minwoo's linkages. He brings it to a new level that no one has ever reached before. Maybe no one can copy off snow's combo in the recent (FYI, S777's combo is copied by Ocha only after a few days, including his finisher). If you insist that snow is just a so-called "less-impressed" version of Pyralux, then why not say supawit127 is a "less-impressed" version of spinnerpeem, why not S777 a "less-impressed" version of Bonkura??? :facepalm: Still, I agree that S777 is very good, but he is just too technical and conservative. I don't hear any "oh shit wtf did he just do" what-so-ever from the audience. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 16:31:33
PrinceXD wrote: because in HK, we buy cheap cams ($40 HKD ~ $5.5 USD) [...] 5) also more durable.
I highly doubt that
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 16:58:41
@L-in dude,u got ur point,but i guess no one will ever say that s777 is the less impressed version of bonkura,he is clearly better than bonkura in term or difficulty and linkages. "I don't hear any "oh shit wtf did he just do" what-so-ever from the audience. ". this is just ridiculous,i guess u really need to see those youtube comments.technical and conservative?thats just bullshit.why the hell u cant see those hidden difficulty and his new linkages in his combo?????
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 18:11:54
L-in wrote: Of course we PSH people saw pyralux. Pyralux is nicknamed "Swivel King" there, and we respect him and his spinning very much. ^_^ However, snow not only uses swivel series tricks, he also combines them with power tricks, fantastic styles, new thoughts, and maybe some Minwoo's linkages. He brings it to a new level that no one has ever reached before. Maybe no one can copy off snow's combo in the recent (FYI, S777's combo is copied by Ocha only after a few days, including his finisher). If you insist that snow is just a so-called "less-impressed" version of Pyralux, then why not say supawit127 is a "less-impressed" version of spinnerpeem, why not S777 a "less-impressed" version of Bonkura??? :facepalm: Still, I agree that S777 is very good, but he is just too technical and conservative. I don't hear any "oh shit wtf did he just do" what-so-ever from the audience.
i know 3 spinners who can copy snow's combo so easly , but anyway, i like his style now too, ( not on the 3first rounds ) but the r5 was epic. anyway, it is impossible to say s777 copied Bonkura, because i never of bonkura doing some pinkyback 1.5 x 30 at 10 months of spin ok ? s777 is way way way more amazing than Bonkura, he mastered bust at least x50, thumbindexspin at 19.5 .... s777's level is far way more impressive than any spinners on hearth. supawit 127 uses left handed spread and bust with backfall, something that spinnerpeem never done before. i'm still thinking snow is good spinner .... but not like s777 or Neptune who can do almost every tricks and style. -
Date: Mon, May 9 2011 19:14:06
This is debate-able as Bonkura is gone a long time ago. PrinceXD
A13x wrote: i know 3 spinners who can copy snow's combo so easly , but anyway, i like his style now too, ( not on the 3first rounds ) but the r5 was epic. [B]anyway, it is impossible to say s777 copied Bonkura, because i never of bonkura doing some pinkyback 1.5 x 30 at 10 months of spin ok ? s777 is way way way more amazing than Bonkura, he mastered bust at least x50, thumbindexspin at 19.5 .... s777's level is far way more impressive than any spinners on hearth.[/B] supawit 127 uses left handed spread and bust with backfall, something that spinnerpeem never done before. i'm still thinking snow is good spinner .... but not like s777 or Neptune who can do almost every tricks and style.
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 20:01:22
translation: OH GOD MY FAVORITE SPINNER DIDN'T WIN THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN ITS A CONSPIRACY THE WT IS BORKED stop complaining
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 22:54:45
@Stare : Looks like you have nothing to contribute besides being an idiot.
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Date: Mon, May 9 2011 23:37:48
taichi1082 wrote: @L-in : I just want to point out that Pyralux holds the record for most invented tricks, linkages and concepts.\.
I feel like Leviathan is probably on par with him. -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 00:06:16
A13x wrote: saying that something is ridiculous or easy when your not able to do it has some "non sense " ok ?
^lol you're right, movie critics shouldn't talk shit if they can't make better either -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 09:37:49
Stare wrote: ^lol you're right, movie critics shouldn't talk shit if they can't make better either
that's true, but movie critics usually have a degree of understanding of what they're criticising, unlike yourself :thumb: @A13x 3 spinners who can copy snow's combo? who might they be? Oo" (i have some idea, but i'm not certain) also, i'm sure you know that coming up with something is far harder than copying it off someone else x) *sigh* off topic rant: s777 more impressive than bonkura? of course...especially with 2 or 3 years afterwards to develop skills, but i wouldn't say from what we've seen so far (R6 may change this) that s777's level is that far above that of other top-level spinners around, he is certainly rank 1st or 2nd though in that aspect imo edit: also we should remember sunrise did thumbspin 15.5 with a normal pencil quite long ago xD perhaps still the most insane feat in pen spinning so far, arguably =\ about supawit compared with spinnerpeem: hmm, from material available (comparing supawit's WT11 videos with vids of spinnerpeem over half a year old), supawit's skill array is a lot more balanced, making him the 'superior' spinner; but knowing peem (who managed to release some new/slightly different power trick variation in basically every round of WT and WC), it would be safe to say that he probably has a huge amount of material unreleased that we may not even be able to imagine being possible xD it's all idle speculation though, but what is more 'concrete' is the fact that spinnerpeem essentially invented the whole power trick genre and re-defined the idea of difficult tricks, consistency, and skill of spinners in live performance, won a world tournament (albeit controversially), invented a widely used mod and style (sure, buster cyl doesn't use any vastly 'original' ideas, and there are many 'buster noobs' around, but his impact cannot be ignored)... conclusion: until spinnerpeem releases something very epic/different, supawit is the better spinner, but spinnerpeem is a legend -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 13:01:01
was pretty impressed that kin beat supawit :O anyways..gogo kin win this WT :D lol if he does..imo everyone will starting to have MX fever...
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 13:20:22
Zombo，Thank you for helping me translate However, the you Chinese need to progress. one paragraph I had this to say ... A world champion should be the most special And lead the world trend. S777 Imitate Bonkura，But did not Beyond him Supawit Imitate SpinnerPeem，Also did not Beyond him Kin，Very special indeed，But we can not develop Rsvp mx Because it is very difficult to use a pen，I use chopsticks rotation Bakfall Also Is difficult But if we All Rotate to use chopsticks，Penspinning how develop？ Semifinals ，Only snow two hand is Most special Two hand Few developing，Snow Can promote a new direction. Champion is a creator，Is not an imitator.
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 13:48:16
Interesting vision, but WT isn't much about promoting. It's rather to tell who is more skilled and talented. Of course the champion might set new trends in penspinning, but it's an effect of his victory, not his vision for future penspinning
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 14:32:12
Rude Boy wrote: Interesting vision, but WT isn't much about promoting. It's rather to tell who is more skilled and talented. Of course the champion might set new trends in penspinning, but it's an effect of his victory, not his vision for future penspinning
If you not can make progress in race You why waste 6 months Participate Competition? -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 14:40:47
holyshit,dude @HuangHuaDa,u are just FCKING RIDICULOUS. world champion doesnt has to be the most special spinners among all particpants and his style doent has to lead the world.its up to us to follow or imitate,but it doesnt mean that all of us have to follow it.its just a diection or choice for us. and mind u,2 hands spinning is even harder than spinning a mx,how the fck u could say that is easier to develop this as a new style or trend?both hand spinning needs more talents,control,consistency and efforts than u tot. being special doesnt guarantee u a victory in tournament,bonkura was special,but why the fck he lost in the wt07? champion is a creator?dude,snow is not the one who invents the both hand spinning,eriror had done the same thing in wt07 final,its earlier than snow.snow just beautified it with his style,so stop giving all the credits to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry for my bad english if u guys cant undertsand what im trying to say
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 14:51:43
HuangHuaDa wrote: A world champion should be the most special And lead the world trend. S777 Imitate Bonkura，But did not Beyond him Supawit Imitate SpinnerPeem，Also did not Beyond him
very subjective... I think you should watch more video from s777 and supawit before you say they are imitator. Also, world champion need not to lead the world trend imo. Snow is great and unique spinner, but that doesn't mean s777,supawit,kin aren't unique. They have their own style already but not copy from others. sorry for my bad english:(~ -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 15:04:05
HuangHuaDa wrote: Zombo，Thank you for helping me translate However, the you Chinese need to progress. one paragraph I had this to say ... A world champion should be the most special And lead the world trend. S777 Imitate Bonkura，But did not Beyond him Supawit Imitate SpinnerPeem，Also did not Beyond him Kin，Very special indeed，But we can not develop Rsvp mx Because it is very difficult to use a pen，I use chopsticks rotation Bakfall Also Is difficult But if we All Rotate to use chopsticks，Penspinning how develop？ Semifinals ，Only snow two hand is Most special Two hand Few developing，Snow Can promote a new direction. Champion is a creator，Is not an imitator.
I laugh a lot. If s777 imitates Bonkoura, Supawit imitates Peem, Snow is a mix between pyralux and minwo. He develops the penspinning with his 2p2h, 2p1h .., but s777 too ,look his linkages and tricks which nobody have done before. And when you say "Champion is a creator，Is not an imitator." i can't imagine you can compare snow and s777 in creativity.. Look Fel2fram, Freeman, Lindor (FPSB) etc.. and you will see what is creativity. Sorry for my bad English again. -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 15:43:49
Snow has already made a huge impact on penspinning, win or lose. Edit : And no, HuangHuaDa isn't ridiculous, his opinions are entirely justified, it's just that we all have different ideas of the WT. It's just that his idea is kind of hard to render in a competitive format.
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 15:44:38
My English is from Google...
song;93108]holyshit,dude @HuangHuaDa,u are just FCKING RIDICULOUS. world champion doesnt has to be the most special spinners among all particpants and his style doent has to lead the world.its up to us to follow or imitate,but it doesnt mean that all of us have to follow it.its just a diection or choice for us. and mind u,2 hands spinning is even harder than spinning a mx,how the fck u could say that is easier to develop this as a new style or trend?both hand spinning needs more talents,control,consistency and efforts than u tot. being special doesnt guarantee u a victory in tournament,bonkura was special,but why the fck he lost in the wt07? champion is a creator?dude,snow is not the one who invents the both hand spinning,eriror had done the same thing in wt07 final,its earlier than snow.snow just beautified it with his style,so stop giving all the credits to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry for my bad english if u guys cant undertsand what im trying to say[/QUOTE] Bonkura Stop the creation of（R4） Eriror vs KTH，A competition，Can not explain what Ponkuto vs Nia，Ponkuto Why win？Nia Not skilled？ [QUOTE=Ccw;93110]very subjective... I think you should watch more video from s777 and supawit before you say they are imitator. Also, world champion need not to lead the world trend imo. Snow is great and unique spinner, but that doesn't mean s777,supawit,kin aren't unique. They have their own style already but not copy from others. sorry for my bad english:(~[/QUOTE] I've seen S777 slow motion，I feel very ordinary. [QUOTE=Swist' wrote: I laugh a lot. If s777 imitates Bonkoura, Supawit imitates Peem, Snow is a mix between pyralux and minwo. He develops the penspinning with his 2p2h, 2p1h .., but s777 too ,look his linkages and tricks which nobody have done before. And when you say "Champion is a creator，Is not an imitator." i can't imagine you can compare snow and s777 in creativity.. Look Fel2fram, Freeman, Lindor (FPSB) etc.. and you will see what is creativity. Sorry for my bad English again.
S777 very creative, you win. -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 16:59:33
HuangHuaDa wrote: Zombo，Thank you for helping me translate However, the you Chinese need to progress. one paragraph I had this to say ... A world champion should be the most special And lead the world trend. S777 Imitate Bonkura，But did not Beyond him Supawit Imitate SpinnerPeem，Also did not Beyond him Kin，Very special indeed，But we can not develop Rsvp mx Because it is very difficult to use a pen，I use chopsticks rotation Bakfall Also Is difficult But if we All Rotate to use chopsticks，Penspinning how develop？ Semifinals ，Only snow two hand is Most special Two hand Few developing，Snow Can promote a new direction. Champion is a creator，Is not an imitator.
A champion is one who work out new ideas, this might be the reason why spinnerpeem was the champion in 2009. However ideas don't always refer to tricks in this context, they mean different variations. I'm sure you know what are the elements of penspinning. Style is not the only key to success over here, neither is creativity. Snow has done a good job which I think I will accept him to win s777, but the way he displays the tricks isn't pleasant to the audience's view. Over here, judges are the audiences. Though supawit has mimic spinnerpeem's style last few years, I will trust that he did that because he needs to carve out a journey in penspinning, which during that era, fingerless and power tricks were the hot stuffs. But if you were to look at his new videos, it aren't about power tricks only. Compare his new videos with spinnerpeem's. There is a lot of difference in depth. I shall not break the excitement of you finding the differences between them, it's not my job:P -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 18:03:35
I see some people said that there was no pen choice criteria(or pen doesnt matter) in this tournament. Hello? Don't you aware that it is part of the difficulity? Everybody knows that spinning a light mod is more difficult than spinning the heavy one.
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 19:52:52
crinix wrote: I see some people said that there was no pen choice criteria(or pen doesnt matter) in this tournament. Hello? Don't you aware that it is part of the difficulity? Everybody knows that spinning a light mod is more difficult than spinning the heavy one.
this is true for a beginner or a spinner up to 1 year of penspining. but we re talking about people training years with the same mod here, and after some time you get used to, whatever you're spinning and each mod has his positive negative points! if pen is took in consideration, dang i just have something to say: elite spinners, next time cheat your mods! doing 20g mx's and 25g cs or rushon is damn easy. Free points! what are we waiting? everybody spins what they want to spin, it's a personal choice that should not be influenced by the fear of judging. -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 20:07:10
Gisele 8 wrote: if pen is took in consideration, dang i just have something to say: elite spinners, next time cheat your mods! doing 20g mx's and 25g cs or rushon is damn easy. Free points! what are we waiting?
This is true, I do that all the time -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 20:17:43
@Gisele 8 I meant kin there as you can see and he gave the proof of it's not cheated at r3(which is one of his best combos at tournament). And that shows us he does what he does with a real mx and he can do without even need cheating. In the end, pen weight and choice is a factor at judging(difficulity) imo. I dont even want to discuss with you, it's pointless; but you quoted me. Whatever
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Date: Tue, May 10 2011 20:29:38
crinix wrote: @Gisele 8 I meant kin there as you can see and he gave the proof of it's not cheated at r3(which is one of his best combos at tournament). And that shows us he does what he does with a real mx and he can do without even need cheating. In the end, pen weight and choice is a factor at judging(difficulity) imo. I dont even want to discuss with you, it's pointless; but you quoted me. Whatever
so now we'll have to control each spinner's mods in every combo to be able to judge the difficulty ? Be realistic and don't escape the fact like a kid kin showed us that his mx was legit. Good for him, but he didn't have to. -
Date: Tue, May 10 2011 21:05:46
crinix wrote: I see some people said that there was no pen choice criteria(or pen doesnt matter) in this tournament. Hello? Don't you aware that it is part of the difficulity? Everybody knows that spinning a light mod is more difficult than spinning the heavy one.
yes, it is a part of difficulty, i agree. but for spinners like supawit and kin spinning with a mod they've used for many years (supawit has been using buster cyl for well over 2 years now, and kin has been using mx for way, way longer than that); it is probably the mod they spin best with, to us it is harder to do kin's combo with an mx, but for him the combo may be easier if he uses mx (not sure, maybe kin can spin heavier mods even better...but i don't think so =\) [more off topic ranting below] however, there is a major flaw in this line of argument - if we substitute the word 'pen' in the above argument with 'tricks', we get: spinners who have been doing the same tricks for a long time find them easier to do, so the same argument used to pens and difficult tricks means the whole judging of difficulty is screwed up =__=" in the end, especially with issues of cheating, analysing if the spinner did in fact take the mod apart properly etcetc, makes it practically too hard to implement some kind of mod checking in WT, i think we should leave it up to the judges whether they want to count mod in the difficulty or not (even if it is not a conscious decision, the idea of kin using an mx and doing crazy stuff with it surely raised difficulty subconsciously in the minds of some judges, probably) in reference to this issue in supawit vs kin: there are very, very few spinners who can copy kin's and supawit's WT11 R5 combos with any mod, for spinners so far in the tournament, their difficulty is above the comprehension/understanding of many, even some of the judges possibly =__=" sometimes it's hard to have an idea of how difficult something is unless you've tried it before, and expecting judges to have such an incredibly wide experience in PS might be a bit hard to achieve in practice...i would think, in WT R5, all the spinners have difficulty of 4.5-5 (see judging criteria to have an idea of the level of difficulty this means) -
Date: Wed, May 11 2011 05:54:55
i.suk wrote: yes, it is a part of difficulty, i agree. but for spinners like supawit and kin spinning with a mod they've used for many years (supawit has been using buster cyl for well over 2 years now, and kin has been using mx for way, way longer than that); it is probably the mod they spin best with, to us it is harder to do kin's combo with an mx, but for him the combo may be easier if he uses mx (not sure, maybe kin can spin heavier mods even better...but i don't think so =\) [more off topic ranting below] however, there is a major flaw in this line of argument - if we substitute the word 'pen' in the above argument with 'tricks', we get: spinners who have been doing the same tricks for a long time find them easier to do, so the same argument used to pens and difficult tricks means the whole judging of difficulty is screwed up =__=" in the end, especially with issues of cheating, analysing if the spinner did in fact take the mod apart properly etcetc, makes it practically too hard to implement some kind of mod checking in WT, i think we should leave it up to the judges whether they want to count mod in the difficulty or not (even if it is not a conscious decision, the idea of kin using an mx and doing crazy stuff with it surely raised difficulty subconsciously in the minds of some judges, probably) in reference to this issue in supawit vs kin: there are very, very few spinners who can copy kin's and supawit's WT11 R5 combos with any mod, for spinners so far in the tournament, their difficulty is above the comprehension/understanding of many, even some of the judges possibly =__=" sometimes it's hard to have an idea of how difficult something is unless you've tried it before, and expecting judges to have such an incredibly wide experience in PS might be a bit hard to achieve in practice...i would think, in WT R5, all the spinners have difficulty of 4.5-5 (see judging criteria to have an idea of the level of difficulty this means)
i would say I'd take about a year to get supawit's finisher move but a week for kin's. MX or whatever mod doesn't matter at all. If you were using MX from your first day of PS, you will be more comfortable with it. Same thing with specialised mods. I believe the tricks are meant to be seen, and not the pens that matters. If it is, someone can bring a stick of feather and do some thumbarounds and claim the champion of wt already. -
Date: Wed, May 11 2011 06:24:09
i.suk;93032]that's true, but movie critics usually have a degree of understanding of what they're criticising, unlike yourself :thumb:[/QUOTE] :peace: [QUOTE=pensp wrote: i would say I'd take about a year to get supawit's finisher move but a week for kin's.
a YEAR?! maybe a month or two at the most, assuming a slow pace... we are talking about one trick/hybrid, aren't we? or a minicombo -
Date: Wed, May 11 2011 06:50:16
Stare wrote: :peace: a YEAR?! maybe a month or two at the most, assuming a slow pace... we are talking about one trick/hybrid, aren't we? or a minicombo
yeah, a year for supawit's finisher is exaggerating quite a bit, as is a week for kin's. however, being one who has been doing power tricks for over one and a half years now (and i think i would be pretty decent at them), the movements required for supawit's finisher are very different and anti-intuitive =\ quite different to movements used for 'normal' power tricks due to the timing when the palmspin is caught to do the scissor spin thing, and getting a fl ta ~ palmspin after scissor spin is a lot harder than doing fl ta ~ palmspin cont... for kin's finisher, anyone with a little experience in aerial busts and hai tua can do it pretty easily, whereas a similar level of mastery of palmspin and scissor spin is not sufficient to do supawit's finisher at all... idk, if someone focused extensively on doing scissor spin from palmspins, and on the scissor spin ~ fl ta ~ palmspin transitions, they may be able to get supa's finisher faster than i expect (my muscle memory is adjusted to do 'regular' power tricks, but i think supawit's are too...i can't do it at the moment at all, whereas i did kin's finisher with an mx on 2nd try just then) but finisher is only 1 small part of the combo xD (sorry for off topic rant) -
Date: Wed, May 11 2011 12:29:08
lol look at the comparison more, not at the time xD
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Date: Wed, May 11 2011 13:46:17
i.suk wrote: for kin's finisher, anyone with a little experience in aerial busts and hai tua can do it pretty easily, whereas a similar level of mastery of palmspin and scissor spin is not sufficient to do supawit's finisher at all...
I agree. But now take a look at his whole combo and not only in terms of difficulty but also in terms of creativity. Bust -> Hai Tua ending is something you see all the time. Thats why many people feel comfortable doing it, it makes it easier on a global scale if I dare to say so. Supawits ending on the other hand is something entierly different. Not only is it original (by the rules definition) but also very difficulty. I'm actually eager to learn it, right now I can't do it. But as I pointed out in my analysis - this not only applies to the ending but also to the rest of the combo. I know for a fact that people are lazy and maybe even scared to take a closer look at combos like this but the density of difficult and 'fresh' linkages is higher than Kins. A lot higher actually! The same applies to HAL by the way. I made a huge fuss about this in GPC already, take a look at HALs linkages in detail, they are mindblowing. Almost no such thing as spam. Looking at Kins combo though, it's full of that. -
Date: Thu, May 12 2011 02:18:06
taichi1082 wrote: I agree. But now take a look at his whole combo and not only in terms of difficulty but also in terms of creativity. Bust -> Hai Tua ending is something you see all the time. Thats why many people feel comfortable doing it, it makes it easier on a global scale if I dare to say so. Supawits ending on the other hand is something entierly different. Not only is it original (by the rules definition) but also very difficulty. I'm actually eager to learn it, right now I can't do it. But as I pointed out in my analysis - this not only applies to the ending but also to the rest of the combo. I know for a fact that people are lazy and maybe even scared to take a closer look at combos like this but the density of difficult and 'fresh' linkages is higher than Kins. A lot higher actually! The same applies to HAL by the way. I made a huge fuss about this in GPC already, take a look at HALs linkages in detail, they are mindblowing. Almost no such thing as spam. Looking at Kins combo though, it's full of that.
I'm not going to get into the other stuff, but I completely agree with you on the topic of HAL. Throughout a lot of the tournament (the rounds he was still in) there definitely was a lot of undeserving comments calling his spinning "spam" or that he is only advancing due to a "bias." These too claims were definitely false, and anyone who took a closer look at his combos could easily see that. -
Date: Thu, May 12 2011 04:32:55
Supawit's finisher is also incredibly ugly.
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Date: Sat, May 14 2011 04:28:21
It's down to kin and s777. Damn I've never been so excited and pressured at the same time...
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Date: Tue, May 17 2011 20:37:08
Gisele 8 wrote: this is ridiculous. i won't watch that final
Don't pretend you won't, lol Best luck for Kin & s777, this is gonna be a great final =)