UPSB v4
Presentation / Spinning to music
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 14:13:33
[video=youtube;oXiJ254c_xw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXiJ254c_xw&feature=feedu[/video] After watching this video from A13x just now, i started to think about the point of penspinning. We just spin to be able to do a trick and then see who can make the best combo, but you are just blindly making a combo for the best appeal. I think there should be a category of spinning to music, because this would show a lot more skill and how you can apply your tricks. This would be more fun and would input a lot more diversity into PS. When you spin to music you're showing that you have mastered the trick/skill well enough that you can apply it to a specific beat or melody, IMO more impressive than any combo you could make. Not just doing a combo with music in the background, but making a combo when you have a song you want to use. Maybe if it is a category in the WT, the spinners are given a song, and the spinner who can be the most creative in applying their spinning to the music could win. So give your insight and opinions on this idea, why you want it or don't want it to be a part of PS, and even maybe if it should be included in the WC12? i think it would be great
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 14:25:07
that's so cool lol I wish I could do it though :D
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 15:58:23
and how long take those combo's IF they are going to be accepted in the WC?
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:03:10
Wow! That's so cool! IMO spinning to music should be included in a separate category. Spinning to music can sometimes be repetitive during the chorus of a song. Making cool combos gives much more room for the spinner to put in various tricks. IMO spinning to music concentrate more on the tricks and beats connections, not the various and difficult tricks part. It should be included in a separate category 'cos it'll be very cool!!
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:17:38
My goodness, 4 minutes straight of no dropping and continuous index baks and middle arounds. those are hard for me :) GOOD JOB A13X! I also think that what capoboy said is true. making combos can put a bunch of different tricks while spinning to music may get spammy. But its still very cool.
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:18:53
is it like spinning to the music so your combo should be based on the music right?
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:46:18
DrakeOhMeteor007 wrote: is it like spinning to the music so your combo should be based on the music right?
yes, that's what i said in my explanation -
Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:48:54
well instead of the beat, it can be like to the lyrics, like ponkotu's Penspinning Promo 13 and 27 (i think) it was really funny, not so "appealing" as this one tho
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 16:51:45
Wonder wrote: yes, that's what i said in my explanation
i didn't bother to look at your explanation, too many words -
Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 17:06:14
DrakeOhMeteor007 wrote: i didn't bother to look at your explanation, too many words
if you're not going to read the explanation/insight then don't ask questions <_< -
Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 19:51:12
I think that this idea is very creative, but as Sam mentioned, spining to a whole song thats about 2-4 minutes is just...hard for some spinners.. IMO. i think penspinning is not Just about showing off your skills and how good you are, its more like a hobby.Spinning to music is definately a creative idea but getting that into the WT..thats going to take some time..
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Date: Mon, Apr 25 2011 23:41:22
I was actually thinking about this yesterday and I was going to make a thread for it when I saw this one. I think that it would be awesome if you could do it because it would add that extra level of difficulty and creativity. However, including it in something like WT would be very hard because it would be very difficult for everyone that wanted to be in the tournament to train themself to make a combo and perform it with music. If you can do it, its awesome, but I think, at least for now, its a little to much to ask for something like WT
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Date: Tue, Apr 26 2011 02:53:24
Imagine a music video like this
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Date: Tue, Apr 26 2011 03:02:57
This was a topic of discussion in the research department in V3. Basically "Synchronized Music Choregraphies" I'll go ahead and quote the archive for public view here.
At its highest form, synchPS tries to match the music perfectly to the spinning. Ideally, every note, every beat should be represented in the spinning. Unfortunately, achieving that level of synchronicity proves to be very difficult, if not impossible. Therefore we define what we call "levels of synchronicity" to help us set realistic goals to aim, before going to next one. As mentionned in 3.1.1, synchronicity is the most important criteria to evaluate combos in synchPS. A combo may be totally unrelated to the music, which we define it as "asynchronous", or it can fit it perfectly, in which case we deem it "(perfectly) synchronous". Anything in between (which is where most of our work will be situated in) falls in the spectrum below:
- sketching I would say this is a Level 3 Synchronous combo... Another snippit. / overview of the project.
This spectrum suggests that synchronicity is evaluated on a continuum, rather than in discrete steps, which is mostly true depending on how exact your spinning matches the beat.
However, to help us discern the synchronicty of a combo, several levels can established within this framework:
Level 0: The music is a non-factor in the the creation of the combo, or the combo has been created with no a priori knowledge of the music. This is the "regular" type of combo we see every day.
Level 1: The combo has been created with knowledge of the music in mind, and is made to match obvious pattern in the music. This is seldomly used in collabs where, for example, the music has a big silence and the current spinner just stall during the silence. Often, it is only that combo which has any semblance of synchronicity, the rest of the collab is at the level 0.
Level 2: The music is selected beforehand and is divided into sections. Each section is assigned to a spinner who must fit its combo into the length of the section or loosely match it. I've only seen this done once for the PSConclave promo. At this level, we only begin to scratch the surface of synchPS.
Level 3: The first "real" level of synchPS. At this stage, we can truly say that there was an intention to make a synchronized video. The combo will respect the length of the music (or a section of the music), the general pace and "punch" the obvious beats and cues in the music.
Level 4: The combo is perfectly synchronized. The combo's timing is exact. Every note is accounted for.
This topic will give a general description of what synchPS (synchronized PS) is about. It will talk about the motivation behind such project and what should we expect from it. First and foremost, synchPS is about building a combo, or more commonly a whole collab, around one song or possibly a set of songs. The idea is that you pick the song first and then worry about the combo later. Doing a combo without prior knowledge of the music most definitively won't work. The other idea is that most of the difficulty of synchPS lies in the rhythm dimension of the combo; instead of following your own pace, you're following the music's. In this sense, the first criteria we should use to evaluate synchPS combos is how "tight", how good of a fit the combo is to the song. Therefore, by making this our first priority, combos will most likely suffer in our regular criterions. The combos may not be of superior quality when viewed on its own but they will be very impressive when matched with the music. [B]This is why synchPS combos should never be viewed without music. [/B]They lose all meaning if done so. It is akin to watching a music video clip on mute. The combos are secondary and arranged to the music.
- sketching (keep in mind the project was started over 4 years ago.) At the time I had initially suggested that spinless tricks would be best suited to basically deal out the beat of the music and conic/spin tricks would give the second layer of melody to the music. EK also did some music freestyle and synchPS videos a while back. (may only be one, not sure)... [video=youtube;58ubkQVTAlM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ubkQVTAlM[/video] I think this really speaks to the progression of spinning ability, and how real it is. from say 2007 - > 2011 there is a serious upward trend in the ability of spinners to be able to pull this stuff off, where previously difficulty stood as a boundary. ---------------- On the video itself, I love the use of spinless tricks (isolations could be a bit cleaner..), :p it also brings forth the point again, watching the video without the music, [B]synchPS combos should never be viewed without music[/B] -
Date: Tue, Apr 26 2011 03:03:15
Well we can make a collab that's each video must be 30 secs to 60 secs either to own music or provided music or section of a song Sent from iPhone 4 via Tapatalk.
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Date: Tue, Apr 26 2011 03:24:51
Imagine doing this with an LED mod in the dark ;]
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Date: Tue, Apr 26 2011 04:39:24
Hopefully one day penspinning would be so well-developed like yoyoing :)
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Date: Thu, Apr 28 2011 15:36:26
It's a good idea and I think even a 30 sec combo according to the music is a nice thing. But as a category for the WC12? I think it would be way too hard to vote objective on this, because of different preferences and it'd be really hard for every single spinner I guess. So as a conclusion: It's a good idea, but has a need to be improved, because there are a lot of lacks.
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Date: Thu, Apr 28 2011 17:02:03
I don't think judging would be that terribly difficult, it would be judged on the level of syncrosity, the more amtching it is, the higher the score.
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Date: Thu, Apr 28 2011 19:40:55
I would like to see pen spinning go in the direction eventually; I think this could be the next step. Similar to dancing and how dancers would act out the lyrics in the dance from time to time to make their routine relevant to the lyrics/song... the same could be applied to pen spinning. The limitation to doing it with pen spinning is obvious though, you obviously don't have as much freedom doing tricks with your hands/pens as you do with your body and cannot represent the lyrics as accurately. Spinning to the beat of a 15 sec predetermined section of a song and making it sync would be standard requirement, and what would be interesting to see is accurately depicting the song as an art form, like how songs are depicted as art in the form of dance. Another issue is the style of each spinner may not fit well with the song choice if we standardize a song for say a competition, but perhaps song choice could be left up to the spinner's discretion. But simply choosing a song will take a lot of work, and so filming a 15-20sec combo of this sort would be quite difficult -- but hey, fingerless combos would have seemed impossible a few years ago. I think in a few years, we'll be able to see decent attempts at this kind of spinning. ------------------------- Edit: Okay, I just watched A13x's video in the first post (lol i should've watched that first...) and I seemed to have imagined something different because I imagined acting out lyrics, but this is a good direction for pen spinning to go towards as well. And I suppose this may indeed be close to the limit that pen spinning can be taken in terms of following with the lyrics because you can't do so much with a pen and your hands? (but... here's an ex) of what i thought could happen, the spinner could perhaps creatively use 2p2h to make a "X" when the song says cross or something that represents "no" or "ex-bf/gf" or something, or have 2 pens already placed parallel on the desk and do 2p2h and make a box if it talks about something being enclosed, or a box, or dont' be square, or something lol----- or course transitioning in and out would have to be smooth, clean, and creative) If you watched the video without the song, it would've looked spammy as others have said and would've sucked as a combo. But that's the point, to make it relevant with the song and present it in that fashion rather than just making "efficient" combos. So perhaps there would be 2 categories (efficient combos / song combos -- maybe as a transition stage), but I feel like spinning should go towards the song combo direction more in the near future. But again, props to A13x for making such a video, it was quite impressive. Before this though, I think consistency would also have to drastically increase so that more people can spin for longer periods of time with no drops.. like peem with his crazy long live performances (another thing that could be expanded on in the near future, spinning in live performances to lyrics + big screen to zoom in on pen may also be nice...). I realize that when I said 15-20 sec for a song combo may be too short to appreciate anything... so consistency must definitely go up to spin nonstop to songs for at least like 1-2min.
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Date: Fri, Apr 29 2011 20:10:32
THAT is SUPER cool. I'm a yoyoer, and for yoyo competitions it's always set to music. Player picks a song, and points are awarded in part based on how their routine works with the music. A lot of players treat it as just a pleasant background element, but the best players sync it.
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Date: Fri, May 6 2011 19:33:25
You act like you've never spun with music