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Off-topic / What would hurt more, a bigger fist, or a smaller fist?
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 15:07:41
So my friend just can't get his head around that a smaller fist is stronger than a bigger fist. The question is, what would hurt more, a bigger fist or a smaller fist, as the same speed and power? In my opinion the answer is the smaller fist, as it has lesser surface area. But my friend just doesn't get it. We even had loads of examples, one of my best one was, what would hurt more, a sharp knife or a blunt knife? The sharp knife of course, as it has a smaller surface area (therefore it is sharper), but he still thinks if something is bigger (same power and speed), it will hurt more. What are your thoughts on this? What do you think would hurt more, and why? Edit: after reading some of your comments, it has lead me to rethink the bigger fist will come into impact with more surface area, therefore hitting more nerves, and should cause more pain but the smaller fist, will penetrate more, but is that enough to cause more pain?
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 15:16:15
smaller hand will have more pressure since pressure=force/area and since both of the hands will have the same amount of force, then the pressure exerted will depend on the area. Bigger area=less pressure i think this is right...not sure though. Ima 1st year physics noob
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 15:58:27
My Physics is fail, but I'll give it a shot. Lets assume a bowling ball and a wrecking ball is travelling with an equal velocity and acceleration towards you. Which would hurt more? Or, a whip or a broomstick, when swung with the same amount of force, which would hurt more?
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 16:15:02
Mass might be a factor too?
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 16:15:55
well technically the more mass, the more momentum, if a car and a train are moving at the same speed the car wont do nowhere near as much damage as a train if they crash into each other head on. A larger body of mass has more kinetic energy when in motion therefor it will release much more force, now to as which one hurts more out of both fists is up to whoever gets hit, but usually a bigger fist or object will cause more damage, idk about pain but it seems reasonable that the more damge the more pain, I'll go with the bigger fist
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 16:20:13
just what I think: Bigger fist will cause more damage while the smaller will hurt more upon impact, the damages will probably cause more pain afterwards too
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 16:30:29
i think smaller fist causes more pain as the force is more concentrated. it is true that the larger fist would cause more damage but it would be spread out and would not hurt as much as the smaller fist, which would cause less damage but more pain. damage=/=pain imo lol big cuts hurt less than small cuts:P
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 16:43:08
mapjay wrote: lol big cuts hurt less than small cuts:P
that depends if you cut yourself with a sword it'll hurt more than if you get cut with scissors or a paper cut -
Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 17:12:16
Enigmatic wrote: well technically the more mass, the more momentum, if a car and a train are moving at the same speed the car wont do nowhere near as much damage as a train if they crash into each other head on. A larger body of mass has more kinetic energy when in motion therefor it will release much more force, now to as which one hurts more out of both fists is up to whoever gets hit, but usually a bigger fist or object will cause more damage, idk about pain but it seems reasonable that the more damge the more pain, I'll go with the bigger fist
hmm, ive never thought about the mass yet -
Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 18:08:11
depends...big wrist + big fist = uber powerful but slow, small wrist + big fist = strong but more prone to damage, small wrist + small fist = weak because it's light, big wrist + small fist(like mike tyson) is uber powerful and hurts more than the big wrist+big fist since the pressure is smaller..kinda like how stilletos would hurt if a model stepped on your foot lol the point is narrow...
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 19:03:11
Kinda like the concept of a katana, the smaller object would cause more pain to a smaller area but the large one would wound a large area but less powerfull.
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 19:16:07
It is the bigger hand that will hurt more; Mostly because pain nerves are most concentrated near the surface of your skin meaning the bigger area will cause more pain. The smaller hand will just penetrate deeper, but not deep enough to hit anything serious.
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 20:37:57
Soren Blade wrote: So my friend just can't get his head around that a smaller fist is stronger than a bigger fist. The question is, what would hurt more, a bigger fist or a smaller fist, as the same speed and power? The answer is easy, the smaller fist of course, as it has lesser surface area. But my friend just doesn't get it. We even had loads of examples, one of my best one was, what would hurt more, a sharp knife or a blunt knife? The sharp knife of course, as it has a smaller surface area (therefore it is sharper), but he still thinks if something is bigger (same power and speed), it will hurt more. What are your thoughts on this? What do you think would hurt more, and why?
@Soren Blade If both fists are travelling at the same speed, the larger fist would hurt more, not the smaller one. First we have to establish that pressure is completely irrelevant if you're talking about punching someone. You're not trying to puncture someone's skin with your fist, you're just trying to bruise them, so pressure has nothing to do with this. Also, the word "hurt" is pretty confusing because we're not sure how to exactly measure pain. In your sharp vs blunt knife example, either knife could hurt more depending on your definition of pain. Since the sharp knife can puncture skin more easily, it actually takes less force to stab someone; and since the blunt knife takes more force to pierce the skin, your victim will experience more force upon impact. Anyway, if you're not considering pressure (and you shouldn't) regarding fists, the larger fist would "hurt" more simply because it (usually) has more mass, assuming both fists are flying at the same velocity. For example, if I dropped a tennis ball and a bowling ball on your face from a height of 10 meters, it's pretty obvious which one hurts more. Even though the tennis ball is smaller than the bowling ball, the bowling ball definitely hurts more because it's much more massive. However, what if the tennis ball and bowling ball were the same mass? Then you would be able to bring up pressure in the equation. If both balls are the same mass, then the tennis ball would "hurt" more because it exerts the same amount of force as a bowling ball, but in a smaller area. I think a common misconception you made with this is that you assumed both fists were the same mass, even though one was significantly larger than the other. If this was the case, then yes, I think you would be right. However, human flesh doesn't necessarily differ in density from person-to-person, so you have to assume that a bigger fist equals a more massive fist. -
Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 20:41:48
I agree. you cant break someones fingers with a pencil but lets try it with a crowbar or a baseball bat and lets see who cries more, someone that gets hit with a pencil on their finger or someone with broken fingers small= pressure= annoying, bigger = more damage = pain+ going to a hospital XD
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 20:44:19
Well, at the same speed and momentum, then the smaller fist would hurt more, because the bigger fist would spread the speed and damage more. ^-^
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 20:56:05
If two objects have different masses they can't have the same speed and momentum, since momentum = mass * velocity.
Spartan wrote: Well, at the same speed and momentum, then the smaller fist would hurt more, because the bigger fist would spread the speed and damage more. ^-^
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 20:59:00
Spartan wrote: Well, at the same speed and momentum, then the smaller fist would hurt more, because the bigger fist would spread the speed and damage more. ^-^
as @Awesome said they cant have the same momentum because one is heavier than the other which generates more kinetic energy and more energy will cause more damage [video=youtube;gjBkRF4heqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjBkRF4heqQ[/video] hehe lol -
Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 21:24:16
F=ma assuming the bigger fist has larger mass, it has more force then you calculate the area of impact if the force/area ratio is higher for larger fist, then it hurst more (probably) not enough details shown to answer the question.
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Date: Fri, Apr 15 2011 21:38:20
I say we actually test this out if no one can agree on an answer.
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Date: Sat, Apr 16 2011 00:20:30
Define hurt.
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Date: Sat, Apr 16 2011 01:12:19
if he has long hands, that is his to his advantage. His long hands will act as a whip. but if he has small hands, he need to be more buff. If he has long hands dont even worry :)
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Date: Sat, Apr 16 2011 01:19:40
it all depends on whos throwing around the fist... if (no offense to anyone) a big fat kid was fighting Manny Pacquiao my best bet is Manny would win.. i dunno.. possibly he'd win! thats sarcasm btw Manny P. would destroy that fat kid!
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Date: Sat, Apr 16 2011 07:54:48
Force equals mass times acceleration.
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Date: Sat, Apr 16 2011 09:02:12
you guys are bringing up great discussion, i might have to actually rethink which actually would hurt more
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Date: Mon, Apr 18 2011 10:11:11
just think of muhammad ali and mike tyson..ofc mike tyson punches harder because he's bigger and he has a smaller fist which means the pressure is concentrated, and he has short limbs which makes it easier for him to punch hard, unlike ali who has long limbs, small wrists, but a big fist doesn't punch as hard because his arm isn't as solid since it's long and hard to fill in w/ muscle and his fist ain't proportional with his wrist which makes it difficult for him to punch hard as it might cause him injury
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Date: Mon, Apr 18 2011 10:38:31
same speed and power by power I assume you mean force you'd need more force to move a bigger first at the same speed as a smaller speed therefore you can't have both the same speed and same power argument is moot herpaderp
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Date: Mon, Apr 18 2011 15:11:00
Biji wrote: same speed and power by power I assume you mean force you'd need more force to move a bigger first at the same speed as a smaller speed therefore you can't have both the same speed and same power argument is moot herpaderp
so which one would hurt more at the same speed then? knowing that the bigger fist will have more force than the smaller at an equal speed -
Date: Mon, Apr 18 2011 17:29:13
It's been said so many times but hell, I'll say it again. We need to know the masses of the fists, if it's larger fist = more mass then yes the larger fist will hurt more if they're going at the same velocity. I think your friend can't get his head around this because he's more intelligent than you. Sorry. :/
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Date: Fri, Jun 3 2011 21:35:52
hey guys, just thought that i'll let you know that i added a poll so you can vote =D
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Date: Sat, Jun 4 2011 03:57:19
assuming that they are going at the same speed, bigger one causes more force. Generally more force=more damage=more pain. On top of that it will contact more nerves.but smaller is more concentrated. Actually, the more I think about it, if they go at the same speed, they should cause the same amount of force per square inch. But since going same speed, the bigger fist will have more force, and can thus cover a bigger area while keeping the same amount of force per square inch. So this eliminates the previous thought that smaller is more concentrated pain. So, in conclusion, I'd rather be punched by a little fist. Never been in physics or anything, but I think this is right.
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Date: Sat, Jun 4 2011 04:02:10
same pain, larger fist = larger area of pain, smaller fist = smaller area of pain
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Date: Sat, Jun 4 2011 04:06:18
Smaller. They are bony. Bones are hard.
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Date: Sat, Jun 4 2011 04:09:05
It's not like you're slapping them with an open hand, assuming you're punching someone with a fist the increase in area is much less than the increase in mass. Mass is related to volume... volume increases by a larger ratio than surface area therefore even if you were slapping them or something the bigger fist would still hurt more. Btw, blunt knife would hurt much more imo. 0_o ouch. Also, assuming that body parts are usually somewhat proportional, the person in question probably has bigger forearms and upper body, so he would probably be able to accelerate his fist faster.
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Date: Sat, Jun 4 2011 04:49:01
kirby what about a needle? going at the same speed as a fist a needle would suck a lot more to get hit by lol