UPSB v4
Naming Committee / [topic][5.3] Revision Of Old Trick Names/Naming Unnamed Tricks
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Date: Mon, Mar 14 2011 06:56:32
These are just suggestions. If you know of any others do post. (- = changed to) Flick - Scissors spin Rev. 2 Finger twirl - Cont. Indexaround (Assisted 1') 11 Helicopter - Thumbindexspread (Palm Down) 12-12 Copter Spin - Inverse Wrist Spin Dual Pass - Helix at 1:47 -Basketball spin (Assisted 1') 11' Also I thought that this was the official was the official way to name these tricks but apparently it still has not been settled yet so it might be a good thing to discuss as well. If this is the right way of naming these tricks then the names of these tricks can be revised to: In-Out Sonic - Charge Rev. 34 -> Inverse Skip Pass 34-12 Fingercrossing/Ringmiddlearound at 0:10 - Ringaround 23-3 ~ Ringskipmiddlearound 3-34
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Date: Wed, Mar 16 2011 15:52:52
I think the Flick as Scissor Spin Rev makes sense, as it is Halftap Rev >~ Indexaround Rev. I wonder if it would create confusion wit flicked Halftap Rev and flicked TA Rev. Also I agree, a Copter Spin is a Wrist Spin, but not sure if we must notate it as Inverse or Palm Down. What happens with Palm Side and Back Side Wrist Spins? I don't know what to do with 1P2H tricks like Two Finger Twirl and Helix, they're clearly assisted composition of known tricks, but they are unique. What's wrong with Dual Pass? Also Helicopter is not a spread, the pen doesn't go around any finger nor bounces on it, you just open the fingerslot, let the pen fall, and catch it with the same or another fingerslot. Spreads could be discussed in this post too, but we already had a discussion for that in UPSB v.3 For the fingercrossed RMA, I think the best idea is to develop an official fingercrossing notation.
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Date: Sat, Mar 19 2011 02:12:57
@Lindor We can discuss about the Skip concept here. Opps my mistake on the helicopter. I think the helicopter is is sort of an aerial pseudo Pass Release Rev. (Palm down) T1-T1 I forgot to remove the dual pass from the list when I posted it. However, I was thinking that the dual pass is kind of a tapping trick as well (Same motion as a backtap, just started perpendicular to the fingers and not parallel). Perhaps there's a way to name it to denote the fact that it starts in that position? This could also solve some of the other problems in naming tricks as well such as naming roll tricks that roll parallel to the fingers instead of the traditional rolling down the hand perpendicular to the fingers. Maybe something like Geometric backtap. For something even more detailed we could add the degress into it. 0 degrees being the traditional way of doing it. The increments would be in the clockwise direction so the Dualpass could be named Geometric (45 degrees) backtap 12-12. I probably gonna' post another thread soon on naming assisted tricks as well. At 0:18 I think someone named this tricks something but It looks like a Pseudo Swivel to me.
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Date: Fri, Mar 25 2011 20:51:20
The last trick you talk about is a pseudo swivel, but as any other swivel it could be breakdowned as an hybrid of sonics. It's a trick from pyralux. About skip : I just know that it does not exist on FPSB. We always used this notation, thinking it was official (or at least used everywhere) : while performing an around with more than one finger, we just indicate the fingers the pen turns around, the slots and, if needed, the fingers that are folded. "Indexmiddlearound 23-23" means an indexaround, but with index + middle used as one finger. While describing "indexmiddlearound" in your video, i was stunned : it may be the official name, but it's really strange since those are just hybrids, not tricks. Plus, it could be named using the "extend" notation, even if it is not needed. So, what is official, what is not, and what should be changed ? About the dual pass, it's a trick that should kep its name imo, even if it's not a pass. Last, i developped years ago a notation for fingercross on FPSB (fratleym agreed about it).
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Date: Fri, Mar 25 2011 21:51:09
I personally don't agree with the skip concept, I believe that we should revise/create notation concerning complex arounds. But first, we should define how we will recognize new tricks.
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Date: Fri, Mar 25 2011 23:13:25
I also don't agree with the skip concept.
Lindor;78268]while performing an around with more than one finger, we just indicate the fingers the pen turns around, the slots and, if needed, the fingers that are folded. "Indexmiddlearound 23-23" means an indexaround, but with index + middle used as one finger.[/QUOTE] Agree, I remember some discussions with Sketching solving these multiple around problems this way, and I think it's the best option. The only lacking hue is that the order of the fingers is determined by the path of the pen. If it starts on 23, goes around index and middle finger at the same time, and ends on 23, it should be MiddleIndexaround 23-23. [QUOTE=Lindor;78268]About the dual pass, it's a trick that should kep its name imo, even if it's not a pass.[/QUOTE] Seems ok [QUOTE=Lindor wrote: Last, i developped years ago a notation for fingercross on FPSB (fratleym agreed about it).
But does this notation cover all ways of fingercrossing? Should all the naming comitee revise it? (instead of only having Fratleym's approval). -
Date: Sat, Mar 26 2011 02:44:10
@Hippo2626: why don't you explain the skip concept in more detail for those that don't understand?
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Date: Sat, Mar 26 2011 18:43:35
@Freeman : It was just a way to indicate that some fingers are crossed before, after or during a trick. So i think it covers everything. What i made was... simple. Something like "MiddleIndexAround 23-23 [12 crossed]", that i do not even have to describe. If i remember well, there was only 2 different notations : action and position. The first was "crossing XY" and "uncrossing XY" (or another word if this is not good in english), the second was [XY crossed]. The first is used as a trick, like : TA => crossing 12 => half tap reverse =>... The second is used as a modifier. I think it's the most easy way to describes fingercross. But if there is something wrong with it, or simply something you do not like, i don't mind changing it =)
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Date: Sat, Mar 26 2011 21:44:53
Well yes, that's a simple way to describe it, but I was referring to a way to do it in the same trick, like with hybrid taps, where the push is made with a finger that does not pertain to the fingerslot used. And what about XY vs YX (you can cross 12 in two ways: 1 over 2 and 2 over 1)?
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Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 12:18:37
I remember seeing the name skip floating around on some youtube conversations and on the SB before. I remember Pen Ninja and Vic using it before. So I inferred from those stuff about what skip actually is. I really apologise about the skip passes, they were an assumption on my part. It was used more for baks. The IPBA kind of "supports" the skip naming method. I think it's a cleaner and more accurate way of naming it. Technically the indexskipmiddlearound (just using this for descriptions sake sorry) doesn't go around the middle finger it just passes it by, it goes around the index finger, when you look at the powerpass or the indexmiddlearound (sorry again) it actually goes around both the middle and the index finger. It's cleaner because it's much easier to write indexmiddlearound than indexaround~ FL. middlearound 0.5
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Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 22:48:14
@Freeman : I do not see the problem, for the taps you describe; with my notations, when finger are crossed, slots are changed. for example, with 12 crossed, the "natural slot" 23 becomes 13 (there is no finger between 1 and 3). So, if i write "shadow 13-13 [12 crossed]", it means "the same trick than a shadow 23-23, but 1 and 2 "changed" their places". Err... I think i just understood what you are talking about ^^ in my opinion, using another push than the "normal" finger is not like a fingercross. A(n ?) hybrid tap T2-T2 0.5 [p3] does not require 2 and 3 to be crossed. And does not require the fingercross nomenclature to be breakdowned... If fingers are crossed, then just add [XY crossed]. About the last part of your message, that was really easy too : [XY crossed] means X and Y crossed, with Y behind X (Y is on the back side, X is on the palm side). The other position is just [YX crossed]. @Hippo : I understand your way of thinking. Mine was just : MiddleIndex is like "one finger", middle and index stuck together as one finger. There are indexarounds, armarounds, wristarounds, pinkyarounds... So, logically, "middle+index"arounds... And i think that "indexmiddlearound" (or middleindexaround) refers to something like armaround and such arounds : just an around, and the name of the "place" the pen turns around. Also, if the notation "middleindexaround" for ["middle+ index stuck together"]around was chosen as the official nomenclature, we should authorize an alternative form : 21-around. Just to authorize people the write formal breaks with smaller names, even if spinner are more used to the first name. One last thing : Since i really have to make progress in english, feel free to tell me when i'm writing wrong sentences... I feel like half of my posts are not even close to "normal" english.
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Date: Mon, Mar 28 2011 02:34:14
Your english is fine, but you're overusing some of the same "complex" words. Maybe we should start a new thread on nomenclature of complex arounds.
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Date: Mon, Mar 28 2011 02:38:41
If you follow the skip concept way of naming things the finger crossing doesn't have to be indicated. You can just look at the finger location. One more reason why I I think it's a cleaner way of naming things.
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Date: Mon, Mar 28 2011 16:05:42
I don't think so. It's not easy to see that a finger is crossed, folded or not using the skip concept. The only thing we see is that a finger is not "in" the trick.
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Date: Sat, Apr 2 2011 19:18:27
For "crossaround" I noted that YAround YX - YX if Y is inside. And YAround Reverse YX - YX if Y is outside. And not XY - XY. And at no moment pen goes around X in the basic trick. I learned PinkyAround (and after the other and Release) originally because it was the only "Around" that person was doing. "It's impossbile blablabla". That irritated me. It was the summer of 2007 well before the Fingercross. And I had to show the first official meeting FPSB gollumsk8. He still remembers. When Frat' has released the FringerCross he saw it as a handicap, but not to do tricks. It may change later, finding tricks it unlocked, I don't know. So the vision of concept is more limited, but I think it can work my breakdown may remain a handicap. Another way is to use TA T YX - T YX. You put the pen placed between YX (crossed) and TA position and you push YX bending to the TA. But then, if Y is inside or outside should give a clarification. ** You can put In or Out for X or Y when you really need, keep Cross for the handicap and YX for Around ? ** For others revisions of tricks, what I thought to rename the Dual Pass, for him and the Shaky Tap have a name in the same family, was too complicated and unclear. Compared to the fingers: Dual Pass => _|_ Tap or Horizontal Tap (for the push) Shaky Tap => // Tap or Vertical Tap (for the push) Not terrible I guess. And not funny. To skip, +1 Lindor for IndexMiddleAround, but the more complicated it is different. I have many questions about it and other Around complicated too. Their differences or not. I'll talk later.