UPSB v4
General Discussion / WT11 - Round 2 - Results OUT!
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 01:21:30
Official link: http://www.worldpenspinning.com/?p=504 Excel: http://www.worldpenspinning.com/wt11/r2/results/r2results.xls PDF: http://www.worldpenspinning.com/wt11/r2/results/r2results.pdf Draw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUxgVvtXg0
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 01:33:58
I cant wait for this x3
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 01:46:09
Snow FTW, I know.
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 02:39:27
snow and s777!!!
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 02:57:02
What TBA means?
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 03:00:17
To be announced
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 04:14:18
midnight...? GMT? PST (<< this one is best)?
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 04:36:12
ZOMBO announce it 12 est. my time B) best time for launch dates for games B]
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 04:50:19
Escorpio123 wrote: What TBA means?
to be announced I can't wait. Dawg I am gonna be up all night, I don't give a **** :woop: -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 04:51:40
Hippo2626 wrote: To be announced
Thank you, I wonder what time would that be for me -_-. South California. -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:13:10
Wow WT2011 started? edit: I know this is not the place but which team won WC2010?
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:15:57
RainbowAceOfSpades wrote: Wow WT2011 started?
:facepalm: I wish there was a emote for double facepalm -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:21:42
I wasn't on for half a year you know, and be nicer to a fellow canadian
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:21:49
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:23:29
Do you wanna explain how to read these results? Edit: Baaron lost :( Good job Baaron, you're still the winner in my heart.
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:25:38
please do hoiboy edit: wow baaron lost D:, hes a good spinner!
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:25:52
Lol, Mesi 9 - Rhetoric 8 :P
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:33:25
hoiboy wrote: Do you wanna explain how to read these results? Edit: Baaron lost :( Good job Baaron, you're still the winner in my heart.
pretty simple: kin 13-2 means out of 15 judging committees, 13 picked kin to be winner, 2 picked ctionist to be winner. each judging committee consists of at least 2 judges. -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:37:15
Zombo wrote: pretty simple: kin 13-2 means out of 15 judging committees, 13 picked kin to be winner, 2 picked ctionist to be winner. each judging committee consists of at least 2 judges.
thanks zombo:D -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:37:48
fuck off HAL >.>
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:46:53
Baaron ):
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 05:51:37
omg wind
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 06:03:04
Well, I really want to wish the best of luck to VIC and EK for next round, BOTH have IMO the toughest opponents in the WT. I didn't want them to battle s777 & Supawit at this point of time -_-. Too bad Baaron lost, but I congratulate to him too for trying :(. Congratulations to the winners, and to baaron too :D.
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 07:25:35
i didnt see this thread, so go ahead and delete my post in the r3 thread. baaron lost? Clearly a result of judging bias. I pointed out plenty of reasons in my post in the R2 discussion. One word summary of my opinion on this ruling: Bullshit. I have to say that given MY idea of what makes the best spinner, Baaron > HAL. WT results don't make a difference. Baaron > HAL.
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 07:36:45
blahblahting wrote: i didnt see this thread, so go ahead and delete my post in the r3 thread. baaron lost? Clearly a result of judging bias. I pointed out plenty of reasons in my post in the R2 discussion. One word summary of my opinion on this ruling: Bullshit. I have to say that given MY idea of what makes the best spinner, Baaron > HAL. WT results don't make a difference. Baaron > HAL.
agreed, if you look at some of the scores given in various areas by judges, i find a lot of them...disagreeable to the recommended marking guidelines =__=" as well as inconsistent...then again, it's only my opinion so it has no impact -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 07:43:00
This is bullshit! I refuse to believe that baaron lost and EK and Vic have to battle supawit and s777 this is bullshit
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 07:44:30
TheAafg wrote: This is bullshit! I refuse to believe that baaron lost and EK and Vic have to battle supawit and s777 this is bullshit
What a coincidence huh? why the 2 best in UPSB have to battle 2 of the best of the WORLD in this round? :facepalm: -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 08:59:54
as i said ^^
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 09:46:40
Well, That's it for PPSC. :( Goodluck Spinners!! :D
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 10:51:59
i thought lekunga and fire@fox would have won.. the rest seem kinda logical to me. dang mesi-rheto was close
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 12:29:57
TheAafg wrote: This is bullshit! I refuse to believe that baaron lost and EK and Vic have to battle supawit and s777 this is bullshit
shit happens? -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 13:40:42
on twitter: Milktii -- JEB should boycott WT13.Because some unfair judges while WT11.Why Firefox lost?Why ocha lost?Why Asin lost?We insist "make a fair judgment." about 7 hours ago -_-
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 14:29:03
Zombo wrote: on twitter: Milktii -- JEB should boycott WT13.Because some unfair judges while WT11.Why Firefox lost?Why ocha lost?Why Asin lost?We insist "make a fair judgment." about 7 hours ago -_-
.______. mfw -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 15:05:05
Zombo wrote: on twitter: Milktii -- JEB should boycott WT13.Because some unfair judges while WT11.Why Firefox lost?Why ocha lost?Why Asin lost?We insist "make a fair judgment." about 7 hours ago -_-
uh o.o even if i would have chosen the 3 JEBians too, judging system can't be more fair... world opinion maybe sux, but it's world opinion. -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 16:04:50
T.T Baaron.......WAHHHH!!!! How did this happen?
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 16:15:50
lol,jeb need to accept the cruel reality that not all of them are that good.firefox had a pretty solid combo in r2,i tot he would win too,but this is wt,quoted from gisele,"world opinion maybe sux, but it's world opinion".
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 17:05:36
Zombo wrote: on twitter: Milktii -- JEB should boycott WT13.Because some unfair judges while WT11.Why Firefox lost?Why ocha lost?Why Asin lost?We insist "make a fair judgment." about 7 hours ago -_-
Because firefox & asin arguably battled the two best spinners in the world. -__- HAL sucks compared to Baaron, and the judging wasn't even close. 13-3? Wtf? Can't even make predictions at this point. o_o -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 17:18:53
weren't jeb the ones who were judging unfairly? Even if we have wt-jeb only I think they will still say it was unfair
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 17:29:00
Again, its probably HAL and his huge amount of fanboys. HAL's style is pretty sweet i'll admit that but his spinning paled in comparison to Baaron. I think i.suk is better than HAL XD either way, i think that next WT, all the groups should have the same amount of judges and that judges from a group cannot judge spinners from their own group. I think that would make it a bit fair-er
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 17:48:28
drgripable wrote: [B]I think i.suk is better than HAL XD[/B]
Uh... no. Anyways, if you look at the results from the PDF (which btw Zombo I now understand :P), judging committees cannot judge combos from their own group. HKPSA had no vote in kin vs. ctionist, to point out one. The system is sound, the individual judges though might have some problems... and @ Milktii: ASin and Fire@Fox and ocha all put up great combos. Unfortunately, they also got stuck with hard opponents. snow vs. ocha could have gone either way... snow's combo was a lot of flashy stuff, but not much substance. ocha had some pretty nice stuff in there (and LOL), but the combo structure was absolutely terrible. -
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 18:14:44
Why didn't UPSB vote in 12/16 rounds? There were only two UPSB spinners.
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 19:37:19
I see lots of reasoning and bandwagoning at the same time. :P
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 23:34:36
Hal is just a more solid spinner than Baaron, Baaron has an execution problem, he always has. Everyone needs to stop crying, if you've been around long enough then you would have seen these results coming a mile away. This is how it goes ever since I saw my first world competition (WC08) and reading up on the results from WT07 this is how it's always been and how it always will be.
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 00:58:15
Oh my... I expected a different matchup in this round. UPSB's finest against the World's. Here we go.
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 04:26:41
ponkotu :(
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 04:58:23
it'd help if judges actually read the judging pdf thing and followed it, but i think most of us knew that wouldn't happen anyway. after r1, i think many spinners expected there to be huge disputes over r2 results too, it'd be naive to expect otherwise. people can still complain all they want, it's a natural human reaction xD sure, HAL's spinning may be more 'solid' than baaron's, but baaron's difficulty and creativity are on entirely different level's to HAL's, who edges baaron out on presentation and possibly 1-1.5 point advantage in execution...i guess flashiness gives advantages which spill over to all different areas =\ and i guess some judges think passes are more difficult and creative than twisted cobra bite to fl ta palm down (only one of the hard, unusual links in baaron's combo). w/e about fire@fox vs vic and ocha vs snow, aesthetics plays are very large role as seen in r1/other r2 matches, and vic and snow both had large advantage in this respect vs their r2 opponents, so little surprise there
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 07:02:09
darkdazh wrote: Why didn't UPSB vote in 12/16 rounds? There were only two UPSB spinners.
they gave partial judging to speed up results, rest should be revealed soon -
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 07:37:34
Spinning extremely fast tends to force once to lower their 'difficulty' if they wish to maintain control at the same time. But because of the fact that Hal spun so fast and had a decent level of difficulty + control, I think that put himself on at least par with Baaron's difficulty... Perhaps that's a thought that the judges had... spinning fast + maintaining control + medium difficult tricks = very difficult overall Dunno.. :dunno:
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 10:07:38
the judges are biased. /end of story/
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 15:28:29
i.suk wrote: it'd help if judges actually read the judging pdf thing and followed it, but i think most of us knew that wouldn't happen anyway. after r1, i think many spinners expected there to be huge disputes over r2 results too, it'd be naive to expect otherwise. people can still complain all they want, it's a natural human reaction xD
For R1, I think it was very difficult to evaluate according to the judging scheme even if you wanted to, because there was simply a huge number of ~95 combos. I attempted it myself, and it could take up to an hour per group in case you care to watch the combos multiple times to ensure accuracy. I think many judge teams gave up over that (after all the judging scheme is only recommended not mandatory) and ranked the spinners according to, well, a simpler scheme. Plus, committees were only asked to hand in rankings of the first 6 spinners I think. So fully comprehensible results in R1 couldn't have been expected, seeing it from now. Proof might be that the UPSB Committee couldn't even decide winners for R2 which consisted "only" of a third of the spinners of R1 and one-on-one matches (see Zombo's post above). Kudos to the judges who gave all 380 scores in R1. -
Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 15:37:20
yes judging is the most thankless job in pen spinning you spend huge amount of hours, do not get any rewards for it, and most likely will be bashed for it -_- plus the fact that the best spinners make the best judges, and the best spinners are already in the tournament, so that means that the judges available are all spinners that were not selected to be in the tournament, so maybe not as good for judges. so quality of judging becomes worse as the quality of participants become better. the most recent participant i remember thanking the judges was Minwoo in WT09, even though he lost in final... but without judges, no tournament is possible so... they're essential draw vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTUxgVvtXg0
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 18:10:57
Everyone in this thread that is complaining about HAL vs Baaron needs to realize that in these high level tournaments your execution is the most important part of your combo. Just look at the past, there's only one battle where I thought the judges screwed up, that was Eriror vs. Toro WC08 R2.
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Date: Mon, Mar 7 2011 03:37:14
Zombo;71169]yes judging is the most thankless job in pen spinning you spend huge amount of hours, do not get any rewards for it, and most likely will be bashed for it -_- [/QUOTE] ^this [QUOTE=sangara wrote: Everyone in this thread that is complaining about HAL vs Baaron needs to realize that in these high level tournaments your execution is the most important part of your combo
and this. I'm sorry for the UPSBians, but imho, HAL vs Baaron's result is ok. Baaron's execution was a bit worse than it should be. And yes, I'm a judge in this WT. And yes, I follow the judging criteria stablished on the rules. Seriously, it really sucks to spend HOURS of my time judging videos, trying to be as much fair as possible, watching and rewatching the clips...and coming to this thread just to read people bashing on the decisions. And lol, let me say something...but the huge majority of you complaining about Baaron losing the battle are from UPSB...and you complain about biasing? Imho, most of you are clearly biased, even unintentionally. Don't get me wrong, I love Baaron (and he knows it), I appreciate his hard linkages, his creativity...but I think HAL was superior in this round, it's just that...Baaron had a few small flaws in execution. Moreover, I don't really like HAL's style, but there has to be a fair winner. Apart from that, all this stupid argument is useless. Results are out, you can do nothing to change. You may just accept it and let it be, or keep crying in your bed every night because Baaron didn't make it. As AoD said in this thread before...shit happens. Kwikedit: @thatguyfromJEBtalkingaboutboycott: lolz. That's what happens when people stop paying attention to the JEB spinners, they think people is unfair.