UPSB v4
General Discussion / Recruiting Judges!!!
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:09:40
Okay, this is just a plan, not a sign up Judge; 3 from each community (Must be able to judge without bias) Judging criteria; WC 10 rule Videos; 10-30 seconds long 16 spinners from each community with 1~5 months 2 weeks in between each battle Judges released after 3 days Match ups are drawn from a box; but there will he 2 boxes seperatong JEB and UPSB so the spinners won't face their own community at the first round Well this is what I was thinking of; waddaya think
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:24:39
This would work if JEB beginners weren't UPSB pro's.
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:27:07
Aw, I'm almost 6 months now. I would've loved to do this.
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:28:54
@Riley; if this starts before ur 6month mark, u can still join I guess
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:32:00
Aw FUCK YEAH!!, lets make this happen
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 02:40:07
I have to see how JEB reacts to this first; http://jeb.s3.zmx.jp/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=13712
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 11:04:42
JEB spinner damn pro man . even beginner .
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 13:16:55
Van wrote: Judge; 3 from each community
So 6 judges at all, it's even quantity and may be 3:3 score. Maybe it's worth to add one more judge from another community, or it's impossible? -
Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 20:44:28
@NikO; yeah I was wondering how I can fix up the tie (when there is a tie) I can't get 4 from UPSB and 3 from JEB, it would be unfair So unless someone wants to help organize this tournament and add another community, (GPC,FPSB,THPSC etc), im still unsure about Wat to do
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 21:50:51
When dealing with a battle between only 2 communities, it's not the best idea to use judges from either community. Just like how in the WT judges are not allowed to judge battles that involve spinners from their own community due to inherent bias, you should do something similar here. But unfortunately, with 2 communities, using judges from those 2 is clearly impossible since you would risk the judges being biased and helping their own spinners or marking down the opponents. If the battle is between only 2 communities, you would need judges from a 3rd community to make it fair. --In that case, you would not have much of an issue with ties since you can just as for 3 judges. Another thing to think about though, if you were to ask a 3rd community to judge...it's important to choose the right ones (if there even is a right one (there are definitely wrong ones though imo)). For example, if you choose 3 judges from THPSC... UPSB has an advantage I think since UPSB spinners are more inclined to do power tricks as opposed to JEB spinners. If you choose people from FPSB, I think it'll be advantageous to JEB since they generally don't like power tricks as much. You can choose 1 judge from each of 3 different communities to balance it out a bit too, but that's still tricky on who should be chosen as judges. And would JEB agree? And more importantly, would the judges agree to judge something that has nothing to do with them in the first place? --Just some things to consider :]
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Date: Thu, Feb 17 2011 22:43:40
JC wrote: When dealing with a battle between only 2 communities, it's not the best idea to use judges from either community. Just like how in the WT judges are not allowed to judge battles that involve spinners from their own community due to inherent bias, you should do something similar here. But unfortunately, with 2 communities, using judges from those 2 is clearly impossible since you would risk the judges being biased and helping their own spinners or marking down the opponents. If the battle is between only 2 communities, you would need judges from a 3rd community to make it fair. --In that case, you would not have much of an issue with ties since you can just as for 3 judges. Another thing to think about though, if you were to ask a 3rd community to judge...it's important to choose the right ones (if there even is a right one (there are definitely wrong ones though imo)). For example, if you choose 3 judges from THPSC... UPSB has an advantage I think since UPSB spinners are more inclined to do power tricks as opposed to JEB spinners. If you choose people from FPSB, I think it'll be advantageous to JEB since they generally don't like power tricks as much. You can choose 1 judge from each of 3 different communities to balance it out a bit too, but that's still tricky on who should be chosen as judges. And would JEB agree? And more importantly, would the judges agree to judge something that has nothing to do with them in the first place? --Just some things to consider :]
Yeah; I was wondering how to get the judging system to work Then maybe 1 from FPSB, 1 from THPSC, 1 from idk Well or we can invite them as well...but then this tournament will be extremely large @.@ Wat does jeb think about this? Theyre not replying at all as u can see from the link before -.- -
Date: Sat, Feb 19 2011 13:03:40
If this happens Im in.... if theres no problem with me competing...
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Date: Sat, Feb 19 2011 18:13:44
1-5momths?thats too short imo,make it 1 year?
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Date: Sat, Feb 19 2011 22:14:00
@song 1 year???? ppl wont be a "beginner" by that time... you might be surprised at some of the beginners... u should see the semi final videos of the beginners tourney of UPSB
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Date: Sun, Feb 20 2011 00:52:27
I Want to enter. but well see how JEB replies. Kinda Scared of them man @@.
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Date: Sun, Feb 20 2011 04:46:30
Mmm im still unsure about the judging system... If we can get a good judging system, i say screw waiting for JEB to reply, just start it
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Date: Sun, Feb 20 2011 05:53:47
I'll join if this gets organized :)
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Date: Sun, Feb 20 2011 12:26:45
OMG I said this is not a sign up thread <_< This thread was made to fix up nessasary rules and stuff
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 16:22:15
@JC; remember u said the judging criteria should be WC10 for the beginners tourney we had? Would that apply for this one too? Because if everyone judges the way u judged for the first round, even though there are even number of judges, it'll be less likely for a tie to occur What do u think?
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 21:29:02
Hm, up to you, but if you want to have scores, I think you should consider making a different rubric than that of WT11. But do consider why I didn't think it wouldn't work for your other beginner tournament, and see if that applies here. One may be: Difficulty Smoothness Execution Creativity Perhaps? It's sometimes difficult with beginner level tournaments to use a rubric because the difficulty is sometimes very similar, and creativity generally isn't that varied either. ---------------------------------- In any case, there shouldn't ever be an even number of judges and you shouldn't rely on the chance that a tie won't happen. Can't be like, well, it won't happen...but if it does, we'll figure something out then. Have it all figured out at the get go.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 22:21:44
@JC so if i use that rubric and 3 judges from each community, is it good to go? its hard not to have an even number of judges, cuz theres 3 community competing, and itll be hard like you said to get a community thats not involved in this tournament to judge.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 22:31:13
i am pretty sure someone from another community would be able to help you out. Just get slice and his buddies from fpsb
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 22:33:41
dayumm is this for real? gg upsb :D
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 22:52:23
Hex wrote: i am pretty sure someone from another community would be able to help you out. Just get slice and his buddies from fpsb
but like JC said before, FPSB might prefer JEB style, and stuff like that besides, slice is also in UPSB >< -
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 22:55:42
true true.
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 23:29:53
This is difficult to start up (with JEB's unwillingness to respond) and organize. I'm not sure if this will even work. Though I think we all know the difficulties with this tournament, let me outline tournaments in general. For any tournament to succeed you need: (1) Motive & Incentive- Why should anyone join this tournament? Is there a prize? Will they gain fame? Will they have fun? What is the reason for them to join? -In this case, there is no prize as far as I know. Decent prizes are often provided by a generous spinner or Penwish (though I see no reason for Penwish to give out prizes for this for free). -This isn't a world tournament/cup, there is not much fame to be gained here. Beginners won't gain much recognition from a, no offense, small scale tournament such as this. -Also, I don't mean to offend you again, but you're not a well renowned spinner so you shouldn't expect so many eager participants, especially from JEB. If it was Peem or Minwoo or someone holding a random tournament all of a sudden though, I think there will be many more eager spinners. (2) Dedicated Spinners-For any successful tournament, not only do you need spinners but you need dedicated ones who will be willing to submit every round. With a better motive, there will be a higher turn in rate. -Taking the WT as an example, it is so successful because the incentive to win is so high--and so even with ~100 spinners, you have a 99%-100% turn in rate. (I don't remember if anyone didnt' turn anything in R1) -But if you take your Beginner Tournament for example, although has shown a fair amount of success, the turn in rate percentage is not nearly as high as the WT even when WT is dealing with much more people -Tying together with incentive again, why should any spinner even join? What is the reason? Having fun and gaining a bit of fame tends to not be enough to get dedicated spinners to join unfortunately. (3)Judges-The need for unbiased judges is necessary and the whole thing can be chaotic and results can be very controversial if good, experienced judges are not chosen. -I'm not going to repeat the issues with judging as I had stated those already fairly clearly in my earlier post. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those are just some things to consider when organizing a tournament -- seeing as how you seem to love to organize tournaments. Now some things to consider for this tournament specifically. Why JEB? And you're having FPSB compete too? (unless I read that wrong) Why FPSB then? What is your reason for choosing those communities specifically? Are you trying to send a certain message by challenging those and not others? -Trying to beat JEB and say that UPSB's beginners are better than JEB's? Though I'm sure that's not the case, sometimes things such as this can send that message and be interpreted in such a way. -Knowing that JEB is not that internationally connected as much as the other communities, you're using this as a way to pull JEB out of their shell and interact a bit more internationally? I'm not sure if this was your aim, or if there was even an aim at all, but this could be a good reason going against JEB specifically if worded correctly as to not offend JEB. These are all rhetorical answers and I'm not really looking for an answer, but they're just things to think about just in general when you set up tournaments. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now for actually solving your judging problem, I really don't know what you can do about that...but more food for thought, an alternative to getting judges is open the battles up to public voting. Though there are obvious bias issues with that, sometimes we can hope that people can control themselves and think as objectively as possible and that a few bias votes will be insignificant compared to the larger amount of unbiased votes. Opening votes up to both communities and stop voting after perhaps ~50 votes(though that's a bit hard to control), and then compiling the two polls from UPSB and JEB...and then seeing who wins from that is a possibility. There are risks of course with that, more risky than judging at times, but that depends on who you can choose for judges I suppose. They're both good choices, judging and public voting, and one can be better than the other depending on how you organize this. I apologize for the long post...but I had a bit of time to kill and figured I can type quite a bit out. :]
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Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 23:59:22
@JC Yes the motive, or prizes for the tournament Well I actually did have some conversation with some JEB members and one of them said the samething He said a prize could be like joining a Collab of a famous spinner or some sort Maybe this can be a good prize? Depending on whos Judging, Maybe judging out of 5 points based on -difficulty -smoothness -creativity -control And 3 judges from each And y JEB? well 1 reason being that I'll be hosting (if it happens) and i go on both forums And the other being what u said and since there was a topic on JEB saying "let's make JEB cheery/active" and one of them said it might be a good idea communicating with other forums And I thought maybe a tournament will be a good idea, and the ones that communicated with me agreed as well Public voting? Eh I dont think it's such a good idea sine there will be 32 spinners, thus 16 battles And that means I'll have to make 16 threads and polls; I don't think it's a good idea
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Date: Thu, Feb 24 2011 04:37:46
Yeah, the prize sounds alright. And so then your issue is just a matter of choosnig judges I think? Or i dunno, if you have it all figured out, it's all good :]!
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Date: Thu, Feb 24 2011 04:53:49
ah, the judges @Van you have any people in mind? -Some people might not be satisfied with the prize, also will we have prizes for 2 or 3 place?
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Date: Thu, Feb 24 2011 05:53:41
@JC; well if u 3 (shoeman and awesome) are willing to judge again, all I have to do is ask the mod of JEB to get some fair judges And also, who's Collab? Although it maybe a good idea, who is willing to allow to let a beginner in their collab?
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Date: Thu, Feb 24 2011 08:36:38
I will pass on judging; I don't really wish to have another deadline to keep in mind all the time. Sorry You would still have an even number of judges though... And I think your greatest difficulty right now is that + finding enough willing JEB participants.
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Date: Thu, Feb 24 2011 14:01:31
Okay, so I want judges that can judge without bias, and person who has the time to It would be best of I can get the judge within 3 days, but the latest is within a week If u r interested, PM me or post here
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 03:08:55
k, so according to van, im the first of the three judges.
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 03:35:59
akitaka wrote: k, so according to van, im the first of the three judges.
hmmm what? are you experienced enough? O.o -
Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 15:52:55
@TheAafg, i guess so, ive been spinning for 3 years now.
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 22:01:37
[QUOTE=akitaka;68175]@Van yooooo, I asked Gisele 8 to be a judge. He accepted :D He is in the wt and he is the admin of BPSC
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 22:02:49
:facepalm:
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 22:17:59
@TheAafg; u know we also need a famous spinner that will allow the winner of this tourney to join his collav?
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Date: Fri, Feb 25 2011 22:20:23
@Van yeah I know, thats a problem I don't know if any famous spinner is having their collab right now.
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Date: Sat, Feb 26 2011 00:04:26
TheAafg wrote: any new member can join and say I have been spinning for x years. Proof? are you trust able?
I'm sorry, I don't have any proof. I guess that if you feel that way, I could not judge, but i swear that I have been spinning for 3 years. I was in v3, but I didnt bother to join in v4 for a while. You can check on v3 if you want. -
Date: Thu, Mar 3 2011 00:58:17
@Eso can you be a judge for this tournament? Please? pretty please? pl0x?
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Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 23:05:49
Bump ^^ Anyways, JEB is about to be ready, and we really need 1 more judge around here!!!
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 00:20:45
@Shadowserpant Hello, would you mind reading this thread? also, would you mind being a judge for this tournament? please? we will be glad for your help ^_^
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 01:48:13
Can I be A judge?
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Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 04:51:49
@Hippo2626 yes! absolutely if shadowserpant refuses to be a judge, then you will become a judge for sure :D
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 03:25:08
im gonna have to pass
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 04:51:12
So, @Hippo2626 wanna be a judge? :3
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 05:01:27
Yup!!
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Date: Sun, Mar 6 2011 05:07:32
@Van :D we got our judges bro!!!
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Date: Mon, Mar 21 2011 10:30:14
@Van what happened??