UPSB v4
Collaboration Videos / JapEn 6th
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 15:53:48
http://firestorage.jp/download/01c27e54c44532abf5f3aa593efc90d92253878b http://firestorage.jp/download/b1a18ac2a3865940a7991374d6715c8a7e298102 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mnwc89K5E
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 16:08:56
Doesn't work for me. :( Anyone can download it? Edit: The first file was removed, and the server is too crowded right now. Gotta wait and try for 2nd one.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 16:09:55
courtesy of Neetom
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 16:13:30
Meh, expected a greater lineup.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 16:24:47
I want SEVEN in JapEn 7th T__T
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 16:31:26
I thought that was a good chance for JEB to promote their newer players. And the songs from Void always good. =) Honestly, a little repetitive in the collab from what I'm thinking. Most of the people gave the same feeling of style and combo like Kirbo, Sister_R and HAL. Wasn't varied enough, IMO. Maybe that's just me. I was also kinda surprised that they used tricks like Air HaiTua or Air Bust, haha. Didn't expect them to come. Not the very best from JapEn series, in my opinion. But still pretty good to watch.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 18:13:02
Enkronidus wrote: Not the very best from JapEn series, in my opinion. But still pretty good to watch.
i agree... i liked the past JapEn Collab videos better -
Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 18:25:06
OMG FINALLY MESI IS APPRECIATED!!! I've loved that guys spinning for ages now :'D Absolutely beautiful combo! The rest of the collab... Good but not best. I also liked Slofis, Kirbo, Ponkotu, Zunda and Hal!
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 18:38:19
Ugh... all the JEB 1/2/3/4/5/6 collabs have music that annoy me. <3 Slofis time to go make another metallic comssa
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 20:18:19
Just another note. FFFUUUU I hate Turugi's spinning. He totally killed it .__. I could spin better than him with my left hand, with a blindfold on while taking a dump. I mean c'mon...
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 20:25:55
what happened to everyone?
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 21:22:53
Twine wrote: Just another note. FFFUUUU I hate Turugi's spinning. He totally killed it .__. I could spin better than him with my left hand, with a blindfold on while taking a dump. I mean c'mon...
I would of liked to of seen some one like Neetom in replace of him. There are so many good spinners on jeb that could have made this collab better. -
Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 21:52:58
poisoned;45888][QUOTE=Twine wrote: Just another note. FFFUUUU I hate Turugi's spinning. He totally killed it .__. I could spin better than him with my left hand, with a blindfold on while taking a dump. I mean c'mon...
I would of liked to of seen some one like Neetom in replace of him. There are so many good spinners on jeb that could have made this collab better.[/QUOTE] +1 JEB is full of pros .___. -
Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 21:56:35
omg mesi... Good collab and all.. But I still liked JapEn 3rd better.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 22:05:32
i liked it :P ponkotuuuuuuuuu <3 some spinners could have have more meat to their combos, but overall, i thought the spinning was very solid and there was great control from a lot of people. i disliked mesi's combo though...his hand movements seemed jerky, and it seemed like he had less control than other spinners. i felt his combo appeared very hectic.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 22:24:15
Dr. Grip spinning. Awesome.
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Date: Fri, Dec 24 2010 23:50:34
The only spinners I really liked were HAL and mesi. Kinda repetitive with the spinners, I could've wished a better lineup :/
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 00:49:18
Wat happened to ppl like Seven,Key3, and Kuzu?? They didnt quit did they??
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 00:51:47
scout wrote: Dr. Grip spinning. Awesome.
also- yeah Turugi did kill it imo. I'd like more smoothness please. (somewhat) :thumb: -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 01:27:04
ZUNDA, Kirbo, Ease, ippei, and Mesi all owned hard.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 01:34:05
<3 turugi
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 02:28:49
sister_R <3
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 02:31:55
meh. no more, no less. just meh.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 05:37:18
I agree with frip. Twas okay.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 06:47:14
SPRiNGFiELD wrote: sister_R <3
+1 HAL's combo was one of the few i enjoy from him As always, Mesi <3 -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 07:22:12
I agree with what most of you guys are saying. It wasn't great at all. I guess they were trying to showcase their newer generation of spinners but I'm sure most of us fell in love with JEB because of their older amazing spinners who really make JEB such an Epic Board. I really hope they don't send these newer spinners to the WT.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 07:33:15
ease, kirbo were great i'm torn between like and dislike with JEB's dr ac spinners (sister r, hal), but this collab, i liked them others.... meh about the new vs old spinners, i think it was a good idea to show case the new spinners, who potentially are going to be the WT participants for JEB 3 years isn't that long in real life, but 3 years in pen spinning is basically half the lifetime of pen spinning itself to expect spinners to continue spinning at a high class for more than 3 years is a tough ask i think its better to let guys like SEVEN and kUzu decide to quit, then build up the new generation who knows, peem/supa might quit after this WT, then JEB has a head start for WC12? like in any sport team, there will be high times, and low times, where they have to build up the new generation that said, the collab was meh, liked 5th better the music was rather repetitive and mono-level, it didn't have the rise and falll of japen 5th's soundtrack
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 08:13:11
k-ryder wrote: ease, kirbo were great i'm torn between like and dislike with JEB's dr ac spinners (sister r, hal), but this collab, i liked them others.... meh
please dont say dr. ac.... ac stands for "art color", and there is nothing from a art color in their mod. its call a KT bro -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 08:22:34
To be fair though, the newer JEB spinners aren't any worse than the JEB of '08... I think there's a lot of prejudice going around because the current spinners aren't meeting the WOW WTF reactions we got from JEB a few years ago. That is to say, the current JEB is not as good for their time. But the actual spinning level itself is not worse, in fact I think it's better. I don't think bringing back old spinners will make them much better. But that's just my opinion.
Hippo2626 wrote: I agree with what most of you guys are saying. It wasn't great at all. I guess they were trying to showcase their newer generation of spinners but I'm sure most of us fell in love with JEB because of their older amazing spinners who really make JEB such an Epic Board. I really hope they don't send these newer spinners to the WT.
Unfortunately, that's what's gonna happen. All the JEB members that actually signed up for WT are what we consider 'new gen'. -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 08:51:09
haha,is easy for u guys to criticize them,but,pls,look at the linkages,their creativity.the wow wtf reactions are only for power tricks?or seven inverse shadow?kuzu spinning?for me,the current jeb is better than the old one
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 08:51:57
that was the shittiest Japan video i have seen..... no saizen no Key3 no :facepalm: shit just plain shit....
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 09:32:23
Hippo2626 wrote: I really hope they don't send these newer spinners to the WT.
Why? The older spinners aren't even close to the level of the new spinners in terms of linkages and difficulty. Trying to put kuzu and SEVEN into WT11 would be silly. -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 09:54:11
turugi is a beast anyone else think he resembles two tempers man? no nikoo makes me sad
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 10:13:56
HAL, sister_R, Mesi and slofis were beast :D liked ippei's palm up pinkyaround thing too. i guess there might be a feeling of 'hmm, didn't meet my expectations' given the epicness of JapEn series, but w/e. compared to other collabs released this year, it's still extremely good :) also kUzu's linkages and difficulty at his 'peak' can easily stand up to the new gen of JEB, but this is an argument for another day...fanboyism gets in the way of accurate judgments xP ease = new dr grip god
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 10:57:06
plz.. if the old dont go then the new wont come. accept it guys, this is the new JEB. this is JEB
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 11:27:44
Do you want kUzu, saizen, seven etc? Your JapEn 6th it's called No Respect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41YQe1M5b3Y I prefer my JapEn 6th.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 14:02:08
don't confuse nostalgia with talent if JapEn collabs are supposed to an official representation of JEB, then they should put spinners that actually are part of JEB. The older spinners are probably not even registered on the board. If JEB can only rely on their older spinners to carry them on, then their supposed greatness is not all that deep. Every board cycles through their spinners on a regular basis, JEB has to do the same.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 16:04:33
Zombo wrote: don't confuse nostalgia with talent if JapEn collabs are supposed to an official representation of JEB, then they should put spinners that actually are part of JEB. The older spinners are probably not even registered on the board. If JEB can only rely on their older spinners to carry them on, then their supposed greatness is not all that deep. Every board cycles through their spinners on a regular basis, JEB has to do the same.
^THIS. I've been reading opinions about this collab since it got released yesterday...and seriously, I don't understand what's going on. Lots of people saying this collab is a huge disappointment because there are not 'big names' on it. Come on guys! Seriously? You ALL now that SEVEN, kUzu, key3, toro and all the JEB legends you worship have already quitted. Ok, sometimes they film randomly for some projects, I know that too, but, as Zombo said, in an official collaboration there has to be spinners part of that community. And they're not. Stop living in the past, guys. JEB is now a new JEB, and you can do nothing about that. I'd rather have 10 JapEn 6th's like this, than a JapEn 6th crowded with legends doing MX combos with style but null content. If you all miss so much the legends, you have like a thousand japanese collabs you can watch in repeat to keep on living in your oh-so-beautiful past. I love this collab, not my favourite JapEn one, but I love it. Beautiful edit, music by void and great spinners. Slofis, Mesi, Ease, kirbo, ponkotu <3 Oh and don't misjudge me. My favourite spinners is SEVEN, and Eban is in my top 5 too. I miss them like you do, and I also have nostalgia. But it's the time for a new JEB :) -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 16:18:38
if JapEn collabs are supposed to an official representation of JEB, then they should put spinners that actually are part of JEB. The older spinners are probably not even registered on the board.
Yes, but it's not like this. I have talke with G-Ryzer when JapEn 4th was out, and he told me that JapEn Collab are friend collab, they don't have to represent the actual JEB level, for this we was waiting that how mad JEB like seven kuzu or Ayatori. It's a great CV, but for me it's not a JapEn collab :/ -
Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 16:22:54
im pretty sure the japen collabs have stop becoming "friends" collab a long time ago. they even have a website set-up every year with instructions on how to submit a video.
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Date: Sat, Dec 25 2010 16:23:18
Mfw I saw Mesi's combo
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Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 08:15:25
song wrote: haha,is easy for u guys to criticize them,but,pls,look at the linkages,their creativity.the wow wtf reactions are only for power tricks?or seven inverse shadow?kuzu spinning?for me,the current jeb is better than the old one
<3333 @song. You know what you're talking about. Took the words right out of my mouth. Many people are obsessing over names, not spinning. The spinning content was absolutely amazing in the collab but because the big names were missing people are disappointed :L -
Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 08:23:52
they are different...different people, different style, different time of learn spinning so please dont compare them each other
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Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 09:00:55
ease was so pro!! new fave spinner
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Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 12:28:59
Just wanted to explain my reasonings for my previous post. I didn't say the spinners were bad, I thought the combos were really good and creative. Thing is, JEB's Christmas collab has always been one of the most anticipated, if not most, collab every year. Every year they produced a collab, they have had a far more tremendous collab than the previous one with a lot of the content far ahead of it's time. Now it's just something you'd expect from a good collab, nothing much more different. As for the new generation of spinners, the reason why many of us , or me anyways, don't appreciate them as much is because they are ordinary spinners, on par with many other spinners, not like the 1st gen which were so so great. Yes, I'm sure many of them have moved on and or are not as great as they are now, but their spinning is still widely adored because they were the origins of many common styles, tricks and linkages which makes the combos they produce so great. I mean why do many of us still love Eriror (no offence Eriror). I've also lerked on their board a couple of times and I've noticed that many of them are still active on the board (dunno' if I'm rightand/or if they still actively spin). Anyways, judging from their most recent videos, You can still see their creativity and quality and the spinning level they have is still pretty high in today's contacts. By the way I saw this clip. [video=youtube;8HlZVWmHpms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HlZVWmHpms[/video] Is kUzu really dead?
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Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 14:39:44
if SEVEN and kUzu and Key3 and all the old JEB spinners didnt get in... maybe its coz they didnt submit... or coz they're combos werent as good as these... like zombo said... dont confuse nostalgia with talent... just gecause it was the best thing a year ago, doesnt mean its always going to be the best thing ever. in saying that... how the fuck did turugi get in? is there some sort of subtle difficulty im missing?
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Date: Sun, Dec 26 2010 16:21:48
haha,a bunch of power tricks mean nothing at all when hundreds of spinners can do the same thing.origin of many common styles,tricks and linkages?thats just nonsense.no offense though
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 04:08:42
Pen Ninja wrote: in saying that... how the fuck did turugi get in? is there some sort of subtle difficulty im missing?
Perhaps the mood of the vid and the music is somewhat compatible???? :? -
Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 05:03:30
turugi was invited, along with Slofis and Mesi
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 05:50:32
what the heck is wrong with you guys! ^^ for me japen 6th still awesome!
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Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 00:01:45
turugi carries a distinguished air of elegance in his submission. The beauty of it lies in its simplicity, a rarity, sadly, in modern showcased pen spinning.
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Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 02:05:09
ok let me fix my post.... Ease was God, Mesi was amazing Zunda was alright and the rest sucked dick. That is all.
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Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 02:39:19
Haha. You're certainly the worthy critic.
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Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 04:01:58
FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Got 140mb downloaded when my computer thought it would be funny to stop the download >___<
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Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 04:05:20
thig wrote: Haha. You're certainly the worthy critic.
Wtf. Thig. -
Date: Tue, Dec 28 2010 06:45:08
lol honestly, the combos were pretty nice. zunda, slofis, mesi...etc but there was no "wow factor" it might be cuz my standards have gone up, but this is JaPEn collab we're talkin about here, not some ordinary collab this, to me at least, seemed like a normal collab with the new JEB gen i dont expect the old gen spinners like kuzu seven saizen or whatever to be in it but something that is refreshing as it is a major collab and no nikoo kinda made me sad as well lol
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 01:16:04
heres the full combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZq2L8-nn38&feature=related he does twisted sonic 23-12 4 times TA rev 4 times tghe pen touches his pinky twice in the whole combo he looks uninspired, like he doesnt care about the combo this sort of thing is a rarity in showcase spinning because showcase spinning is for showing what we can do... not what we can do while we're asleep
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 04:06:14
I think it looks fine. Counting Twisted Sonics and TA Revs isn't exactly the best way to judge quality.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 06:53:35
im full with pen ninja on this one. Turugi..really is not appropriate for this collab. the level of that combo is far too low D; it makes me sad when i watch it. i can see JapEn board has changed its style. all the combos focused on quirky linkages, all kinda reminded me of Zunda. I suspect hal is going to lead Jeb for a while. it was a so so collab for me too.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 12:43:19
thig wrote: I think it looks fine. Counting Twisted Sonics and TA Revs isn't exactly the best way to judge quality.
the combo is not smooth at all... the tricks are boring and there's no good linkages... so... what exactly looks fine? -
Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 14:18:17
When I look at combos, I usually place the most weight in composition. The combo is well balanced. Overall it's a play between conic/pass and around spins. His Twisted Sonic 23-12 -> IA Rev 0.5 12-T1 ~> TA Rev is an uncommon variation. This isn't original, but having a palm-up Twisted Sonic followed by a non-fingerless TA Rev is beautiful. The FL MA Rev 23-12 -> Shadow Rev 12-34 -> Shadow Rev 34 is a nice touch, considering how he uses his initial Arounds in a sequence (TA Rev -> TA Rev -> ... -> FL TA Rev). I'm referring to the symmetry in FL and non-FL pushes. His trick choices make sense. It's not a casual throwaway freestyle. He thought this through. The directional changes are suitable. They're 'soft,' or take place at T1 or 34, well chosen for his combo. It's not bloated. turugi doesn't look like he's trying to put all of his most difficult tricks he can do into one combo. And I don't really see how it's "not smooth at all." Considering speed and pen size, it's hard to get much smoother than that. But the clincher for me is its nostalgic quality. His style suggests influences from spinners like devil from PDS/KPSA, pendengi from PDS, names you don't see so much anymore. It's not the best combo I've ever seen, but it stands out in JEB 6.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 16:00:52
the combo was hardly thought out... some1 at that level should be able to realise how horrible the tw sonic 23-12 > ia rev 0.5 12-t1 > ta rev looks at a slow speed like that... same deal with the midbak, the shadow rev 34-34 and the direction change right after he should also notice the lack of appeal generated by the incomplete charges he makes, again: especially at that speed... the quality and completeness of your tricks needs to be top notch or its noticable... also, the jump in speed for a moment when he does the tw sonic 23-12 > indexspin 12-tf (at 0:10 in the video i posted before) is sloppy and obvious theres an obvious pause between the fl ext TA tf-12 and the pass 12-34 that could have been refined theres no sonic hybrid to be found, only simple sonic 34-23s and twisted sonic 23-12s... nothing like a demons sonic at least..... the combo itself wasnt so badly thought out if the goal was simplicity, which it clearly was... but simplicity does not hold well with slow spinning unless everything is PERFECT im not asking for complexity but if ur gonna do a combo that slow and not even smooth at all, ude better do something interesting interesting doesnt count "nostalgic quality" however... ps was at its best when this kind of spinning was normal, y didnt it stay that way? ps has adapted to new concepts, tricks and standards and has adapted for a reason... because its better the internet was all dial up at one point but ur an idiot if you still use it... i sure as hell dont feel like using dial up for "nostalgic quality" spinning, like intenet connections has evolved over time, sure ide have like the old spinning way back if that was all i had... but now theres bigger and better stuff and i dont see the point of taking a few steps backwards new job... all i can think about is interwebs
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 16:25:49
Haters gonna hate.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 18:39:03
I beg you to tell me what is so special about turugi's combo... (facepalm)
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 18:52:15
. Some people just find it appealing. Others don't like yourself.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 19:11:14
I think the combo has style, the dark shadows on his hand give a cool effect too. The more I watch the collab, the more I see that its really good. People are just disappointed because they were expecting some amazing combo from the jeb "kings" (seven, kuzu, key3 etc.)
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 19:36:12
ZUNDA's combo got cut off more than the others I think. Here's the original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmRiUMCAiTg
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 21:20:15
The one thing I like about turugi's combo is the Fl. MA Reverse 12-23 -> NeoBak 23-12, which no one has commented on. People like thig probably like to reminisce about the days of UPSB v2/PDS, where emphasis was less on the tricks and more on the appearance and how clean it looks. It's just a different preference. I don't necessarily dislike turugi's combo, but I also see what people like Pen Ninja mean. I probably wouldn't be able to remake that combo that well at least.
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Date: Wed, Dec 29 2010 23:33:29
Turugi got in because he is friends with Coco_A and very famous in JEB. JapEn is (was) not for the new generation but the old guys who have their own circle. Not really like UPSB 1st/2nd, where the best spinners are supposed to show off what the community is capable of. Also this
"thig"]Haters gonna hate.[/quote] /EDIT: Something I forgot [QUOTE=Zombo wrote: im pretty sure the japen collabs have stop becoming "friends" collab a long time ago. they even have a website set-up every year with instructions on how to submit a video.
You are sure based on what? Because there is an examination system, the editor can't decide on personal preference anymore? I mean JapEn 5th was editied by scissor's and all the people in it are scissor's friends. Even Key3 got in with a very weak combo (not only relative to his other combos but absolute by regular judging). This is the first time we see "fresh faces" after part 2-5. This isn't even the first time this happened. May I remind you: .noir in SPSL 6th Aysh in SPSL 6th Key3 in JapEn 5th G-Ryzer in JapEn 4th All relatively bad combos, all public registration and examination. Don't tell me these were really the best combos available. /EDIT2: Fixxed the 5th/6th thing. Sorry. -
Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 00:21:15
What does it matter. It was an entertaining collab, with many good spinners, who cares if one of the combos was not "up to par"
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 03:16:54
mhig wrote: . Some people just find it appealing. Others don't like yourself.
This is your explanation about "what is so special about turugi's combo"? Nice explanation. You covered me very well. Thank you. I totally agree with taichi and i would like to add that in the world of penspinning the people you know are a very dominant factor which will determine if you are going to be famous and how much famous. -
Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 03:24:42
Well I don't have to get into how you are completely stuck up with your difficult tricks. I'm just saying that there are people who like combos that have that simple touch to it instead of the ruckus that power tricks bring out. Just sayin'.
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 03:32:16
mhig wrote: Well I don't have to get into how you are completely stuck up with your difficult tricks. I'm just saying that there are people who like combos that have that simple touch to it instead of the ruckus that power tricks bring out. Just sayin'.
Well, that's a progress. I don't advocate that penspinning is all about the difficult tricks but turugi's are so much easy that you thing you are watching a 9 month spinner... Maybe i am wrong, maybe "easy and clean" is the new sexy, maybe... i don't know... -
Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 03:33:36
the thing is regardless of the tricks, it doesn't even look good or clean...
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 03:41:40
I'm sorry for my lack of clarification in my first post. I didn't think clarification would be needed. I don't know about a nine month spinner. Perhaps if you are talking of a spinner who has gained the advantage of heavier modifications then perhaps yes. However they will never match turugi in his style. You just won't see that anywhere. I found turugi's combo to bring out a beauty of spinning that isn't normally seen; it's his unique style. Of course, *it's up to the audience to like or dislike it. And Zombo, that is your opinion. Just saying. I found it appealing.
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 16:32:13
ok here's a full analysis: the first 6 seconds are absolutely painful watch, abysmal execution and uneven pacing. I guess the best part is the stop generated between the IA rev and the TA rev, but like Penja said, it's not appropriate in this context. His spinning the whole time is hesitant with no good momentum generated. Placing a stop, albeit well controlled, does not make sense. The idea of alternating or playing with FL and non-FL pushes is a clever idea, one that is novel. But I don't think it's very effective given the trick choices here and the nonchalant execution. In the end, pen spinning is not simply a breakdown, the execution and presentation matters. Maybe you were able to pick out a few neat things by looking out at the trick selection, but it's not being properly displayed. The hand looks awkward most of the time too.
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 18:42:33
The execution really isn't that bad. I think it's obnoxious nitpicking tiny smoothness errors. Even the pauses make sense. They're placed to emphasize the TA Revs, and it's pretty obvious that the TA Rev is the centerpiece of turugi's combo. The pacing is very good. It's a gradual buildup to the Indexspin 1.0 -> FL [B]TA Rev[/B] (00:10-0:11), the climax. Post-climax is an appropriate speed (slower than the climax); the pauses before and after FL TA ~ FL IA emphasize the arounds, followed with closure on a TA, an appropriate complement to the centerpiece. Although you mightn't have enjoyed it, it's stupid and cocky to say it doesn't belong in JEB 6 on grounds of what you think is good spinning, when it caters to a minority audience. It's really your loss if you decide it sucks on grounds of an overinflated demand for smoothness, when you could be enjoying JEB 6.
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 20:48:21
turugi did better combos for sure, but this one is not the worst of the collab. And I don't understand what is so bad about it, that people like him are in such big collabs, for me it is a nice variety and contrast, which makes the collab better as it would be with just "power" combos.
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Date: Thu, Dec 30 2010 21:36:50
Might wrote: turugi did better combos for sure, but this one is not the worst of the collab. And I don't understand what is so bad about it, that people like him are in such big collabs, for me it is a nice variety and contrast, which makes the collab better as it would be with just "power" combos.
Who was the worst? -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 00:34:40
Lol, Turugi was the worst by a mile. His hand is ugly looking, his pace is uneven, his tricks are unimpressive (with the exclusion of 1:56 - 1:57 which is awesome) and the execution is bad.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 00:51:39
wow o_O this guy liek copied all of the combos from japen 6th already....!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDANgcn3NXA&feature=related
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 01:13:20
yeh he does that... the styles however, are not copy-able
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 01:26:48
thig;48102]The execution really isn't that bad. I think it's obnoxious nitpicking tiny smoothness errors.[/QUOTE] If your going to spin at that speed, execution needs to be flawless or it shows [QUOTE=mhig wrote: However they will never match turugi in his style. You just won't see that anywhere. I found turugi's combo to bring out a beauty of spinning that isn't normally seen; it's his unique style.
TBH i thought the style was the worst part... boring, bland, uninspired... felt like he was sick of spinning, chucked in a lazy combo for just another Japen as for difficulty... these days people confuse difficulty for power trick spam... theres difficult tricks that dont involve busts, aerials or hai tuas -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:03:40
Yes, ignore the rest of my post where I explain why he makes those pauses, your 'flaws.'
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:07:02
thig wrote: Yes, ignore the rest of my post where I explain why he makes those pauses, your 'flaws.'
I highly doubt that that's true. Look at the loss of control during and after the fl ta~fl ia. I don't see how can say that that's intentional and not a flaw. -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:11:03
You pause to emphasize. Is that really so hard to grasp?
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:13:45
thig wrote: You pause to emphasize. Is that really so hard to grasp?
It is, because his other fingers flail slightly during the catch of the fl ta~fl ia suggesting that it's a loss of control. Maybe we're talking about a different pause? -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:14:44
thig wrote: The execution really isn't that bad. I think it's obnoxious nitpicking tiny smoothness errors.
it's clearly visible. any visible mistakes should be considered major now. small disruptions in flow are minor, and mistakes that can only be observed in slow-motion are negligible. that's the standard of today's spinning.Even the pauses make sense. They're placed to emphasize the TA Revs, and it's pretty obvious that the TA Rev is the centerpiece of turugi's combo. The pacing is very good. It's a gradual buildup to the Indexspin 1.0 -> FL [B]TA Rev[/B] (00:10-0:11), the climax. Post-climax is an appropriate speed (slower than the climax); the pauses before and after FL TA ~ FL IA emphasize the arounds, followed with closure on a TA, an appropriate complement to the centerpiece.
structurally it is: everything lead up to it and there is a dissipation once it is done. an analysis of the direction changes in the combo will also reveal the same thing. but the delivery, once again, fails to convince that it is the centerpiece. the intensity to be released is simply not there in sufficient amount.Although you mightn't have enjoyed it, it's stupid and cocky to say it doesn't belong in JEB 6 on grounds of what you think is good spinning, when it caters to a minority audience. It's really your loss if you decide it sucks on grounds of an overinflated demand for smoothness, when you could be enjoying JEB 6.
to say that it doesn't belong is simply a strong personal opinion, not an objective one. it simply means it is my least favourite combo, to be the point that I think the collab is better without it in it. I also disagree that my opinion is a minority. I've tried to consider all aspects of the combo to see where it can be appealing to someone and I can't really find anything worthwhile. -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:32:04
AwonW, I can hardly see how that suggests a loss of control. Zombo, I should have put errors in quotation marks. I explained away the 'smoothness errors.' I have no idea what you mean by delivery and intensity. That just sounds like shit you're pulling from your ass. To say it doesn't belong in JEB 6 does not just imply that it's your least favorite combo, but also that it fails to represent JEB, which you really don't have a say in. I didn't say that your opinion was the minority, but mine obviously. 'Cater' means 'satisfy.'
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:33:52
Why can't we just say Turugi was included for nostalgic value and leave it at that? I mean, he was invited to the collab after all.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 02:54:53
Warning: Really long post (It contains replies for taichi and again, my opinion about JEB nowadays and JapEn 6th), open at your own risk :_D
Spoiler
taichi1082 wrote: JapEn is (was) not for the new generation but the old guys who have their own circle. Not really like UPSB 1st/2nd, where the best spinners are supposed to show off what the community is capable of.
Sorry about re-taking this post from 3 pages ago, but I do disagree. First, organization in collabs changes throughout the years. You say JapEn is not for the new gen but for the legends. But what if the legends are bad nowadays? Better not doing JapEn 6th? Noez. Also, like it or not, but JapEn became the official collaboration of JEB even if it started as a 'friend' project, and as Zombo said, an official collaboration has to show what the community can really do, not what some people with great skills in the past can do right now. Seriously, you all whining because the legends are not in the collab when you all were bitching at No Respect because "the combos were plain with absolutely no difficulty and probably in one-cut'". I'll quote MaKiZar in FPSB because his post was so self-explanatory ♥FPSB 4th : OUIIIN ON VOIT TOUJOURS LES MEMES!!!! Japen 6th : OUIIIN ON VEUT VOIR TOUJOURS LES MEMES, OU ILS SONT!!!??? Faut savoir ce que vous voulez les gars...
For those who doesn't understand French it basically means that people claims about seeing aaaalways the same people in big collabs (like FPSB 4th) and when the line-up changes everyone cries because they want to see the legends (as in JapEn 6th). Nonsense x) I'll also quote Euskadi because this is also my point:C'est ça Jeb maintenant .. Les gros spinners ont "tourné la page", ou ont zappé. On ne pouvait pas faire mieux imo ;)
"That's JEB right now...the big spinners have "turned the page" or have quitted. No better thing could have been done imo ;)"You are sure based on what? Because there is an examination system, the editor can't decide on personal preference anymore? I mean JapEn 5th was editied by scissor's and all the people in it are scissor's friends. Even Key3 got in with a very weak combo (not only relative to his other combos but absolute by regular judging). This is the first time we see "fresh faces" after part 2-5. This isn't even the first time this happened. May I remind you: .noir in SPSL 6th Aysh in SPSL 6th Key3 in JapEn 5th G-Ryzer in JapEn 4th All relatively bad combos, all public registration and examination. Don't tell me these were really the best combos available.
I lol'd hard with this part. It seems like you got every combo submitted for those collabs and you even helped on the filtering. But well, explaining my point about this would be just too long and I find it stupid explaining because of so many things. But I'd lol if someone filters Aysh's combo for a project like SPSL, for example. The conclusion is that JapEn 6th have kinda divided the spinners between haters and not-haters (not necessarily lovers). But guys, we all have to assume 3 things: 1: It's already out and it won't change, it doesn't matter how loud you whine. 2: It HAS definitely good combos. (Not every one, but some of them were really at the level of JapEn 4th, for example). 3: JEB legends are not the same anymore. No more SPSL 6th's SEVEN, no more JapEn 4th's kUzu. And that's my point :) Sorry about the leeeenght of the post ^^" -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 03:09:43
thig wrote: Zombo, I should have put errors in quotation marks. I explained away the 'smoothness errors.'
So your explaination is that he uses a bad pen and spins slowly. If you willingly choose to spin with a handicap, then you must make it look good. Ease spins with a Dr Grip and there's no execution problem. That sounds like a bad excuse IMO. When I look at a combo and evaluate its execution, I don't look at the conditions and judge relatively. I just say what I see.I have no idea what you mean by delivery and intensity. That just sounds like shit you're pulling from your ass.
No it's not. Look at the poise and the body language, especially reflected by the hand and the fingers. Those things are not negligible and part of the presentation. A better delivery would project more confidence. It's hard to find the spinning credible when he looks so unsure of what's he doing. Maybe he thought everything like you said, but it sure doesn't look like it. Intensity is a difficult trait to describe accurately, but some of its core elements are flow and trick selection. The trick selection is alright, but the flow is not that great (again it's an execution problem).To say it doesn't belong in JEB 6 does not just imply that it's your least favorite combo, but also that it fails to represent JEB, which you really don't have a say in. I didn't say that your opinion was the minority, but mine obviously. 'Cater' means 'satisfy.'
I really didn't say any of that. It doesn't belong in JEB 6 simply means I wouldn't put it in the collab if I was organizing it, based purely on skill level. That's all. Obviously the selection might not have done purely on skill and that's fine. I am stating an point of view which evaluates only the skill level. -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 03:34:38
No, my explanation is that he pauses for effect. I hardly see the lack of confidence and flow turugi supposedly projects. Explain. Frankly, "it doesn't belong in JEB 6" can have a bunch of implications. If you meant, "I wouldn't put it in the collab if I was organizing it, based purely on skill level" you should have just said that.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 04:03:46
as AwonW said, I seriously doubt the flow break + slip at :03 is intentional. That looks like a loss of control on very simple tricks like rev IA 0.5 and rev TA. You can see the "double touch" to adjust the pen because it slipped a little bit. Look at the way the fingers move during the shadows in :08-:09. Very stiff, very awkward. The pause at :12 before some rev passes is a clear hesitation. It's like he didn't prepare an ending and stopped there. Those are clear tells that the combo has not been practiced/recorded enough.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 05:15:07
Watching the collab again, I actually thought that Turugi's combo was nice. I find the problem to be in the placement of his combo. If it had been in the beginning or maybe the end, it might have looked better, but just sticking it in like right between ippei and slofis made Turugi's combo look... different (and bad).
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 05:39:47
AwonW referred to 00:12-13. That's the only FL TA ~ FL IA in the whole clip. 00:03 and 00:12-13 are exactly what I perceive as emphases on the around spins. I doubt a spinner of his experience would make mistakes on your 'very simple tricks.' And the stiff fingers? No, not really. I don't see how all that sums to a lack of confidence and flow.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 05:45:26
I'm not really sure what more I can say, to me it's clear right from the first vision that the combo has some serious execution and pacing problems. Maybe you're not sensitive to it or don't care, I don't know. If it was supposed to be some kind of "emphasis", it comes off looking awkward and do not highlight the tricks in a positive manner. AFAIK, no spinners try to intentionally spin not smoothly. That would certainly be a highly original thought :P This kind of counter-culture against traditional values has been seen in other arts such as Music (where dissonance is now considered important) but using unsmoothness to emphasize something else has not been used effectively from what I know. At the very least, it's not particularly good in this case.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 06:07:59
You've done a fantastic job explaining the serious execution and pacing problems you perceive. Pausing for emphasis is old. Older than freshgel from PDS Hall of Honor 1.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 06:41:15
yeah I know that, what do you think the purpose of counter-tricks is? The whole idea is the ability to "freeze" the pen for a split second makes a very striking image to the viewer. but there are good ways and wrong ways to make pauses. There are also good opportunities and bad opportunities to place them. AFAIK, turugi do it mostly the bad way (except 1 time before some FL TA rev I believe at :09 or something). And they're always placed in bad opportunities.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 06:56:09
thig... Master troll :trollface:
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 13:14:27
What got to me was how after I explained why I thought turugi's combo is fine, [quote=Zombo]I've tried to consider all aspects of the combo to see where it can be appealing to someone and I can't really find anything worthwhile.[/quote] That made it obvious that you're just arguing for the sake of being a dick. So I pushed you to see if you really had anything. Nah. You're full of shit.
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Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 13:36:59
VikroaL;48267]First, organization in collabs changes throughout the years. You say JapEn is not for the new gen but for the legends. But what if the legends are bad nowadays? Better not doing JapEn 6th? Noez. Also, like it or not, but JapEn became the official collaboration of JEB even if it started as a 'friend' project, and as Zombo said, an official collaboration has to show what the community can really do, not what some people with great skills in the past can do right now.[/quote] I said JapEn was for the "legends" -and it was. Now the new guys are in it - it became rather "official" (if you want to call it that). So what is your point? The highlighted part descibes what it should be like - not the actual reality. [QUOTE=VikroaL;48267] Seriously, you all whining because the legends are not in the collab when you all were bitching at No Respect because "the combos were plain with absolutely no difficulty and probably in one-cut'". [/quote] I did not whine at any point and I was one of the people explaining why No Repect is a pretty good CV. Please look that up next time before accusing random people of random things. And it's only natural to be disappointed by the lineup. The people in JapEn 6th are seen weekly in several JEB-CVs. The "legends" however, only appear(ed) rarely, in SPSL or JapEn collabs. That is what made JapEn so special. /EDIT: Before someone says "oh but taichi, then you should take the CV for what it is and accept the fact that blablabla" I watched the CV many times. Some combos are good, some are bad (relative to the combos the single spinners made before). Average in spinning. But I can still bitch about lineup choices all I want. There is nothing wrong with it. [QUOTE=VikroaL;48267]For those who doesn't understand French it basically means that people claims about seeing aaaalways the same people in big collabs (like FPSB 4th) and when the line-up changes everyone cries because they want to see the legends (as in JapEn 6th). Nonsense x)[/quote] That is called nostalgia, it is not "nonsense" and we already had a discussion about that. [QUOTE=VikroaL;48267]I lol'd hard with this part. It seems like you got every combo submitted for those collabs and you even helped on the filtering. But well, explaining my point about this would be just too long and I find it stupid explaining because of so many things. But I'd lol if someone filters Aysh's combo for a project like SPSL, for example.[/quote] No, I had no insights in the filtering process. I just assumed that there were better combos available - which is a sane thing to do. And why would you lol if someone filters out Aysh? He is not a very good spinner and only in the video because he is famous from JapEn 1st and other older projects. Let me put it this way: I can't know if there were better spinners or not who submitted a video. But it is veeery unlikely that Aysh was the best. And why do you lol? It seems like you want to ridicule my post... I.c. "assuming" aside, lets look at this: [QUOTE=VikroaL wrote: 1: It's already out and it won't change, it doesn't matter how loud you whine. 2: It HAS definitely good combos. (Not every one, but some of them were really at the level of JapEn 4th, for example). 3: JEB legends are not the same anymore. No more SPSL 6th's SEVEN, no more JapEn 4th's kUzu.
1. Really? 2. Yes, no one seems to object that. 3. JEB Legends stay legends. Thats why the are called legends... /EDIT: olol@the post above this 8) -
Date: Fri, Dec 31 2010 14:00:51
thig wrote: What got to me was how after I explained why I thought turugi's combo is fine, That made it obvious that you're just arguing for the sake of being a dick. So I pushed you to see if you really had anything. Nah. You're full of shit.
whatever you say man, i persist to say the combo is not very good if you look at it from multiple aspects, the main reason you like it must come from something "meta", like either the name of the spinner, or the fact that the low level of the combo gives it an old-school feel which gives you nostalgia. in my first post in this thread I already stated my base assumptions which is to look at things from a skill point of view and not nostalgia. I don't argue to be a dick. I argue to understand more about pen spinning. You had some insight into this combo which made you react differently than others. I had to take a look myself and see how your point of view can be applied. My personal conclusion is that the elements you've described are not conveyed in an convincing manner. The reason I argue is to see if I can change my opinion about the combo using your ideas, but in this case, I did not.