UPSB v4
Advanced Tricks / A new trick ¿name?
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 19:55:47
Hi, I invented a new trick and I would like to know your opinion, and find a name. [video=youtube;gAs-B9Gfr5U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAs-B9Gfr5U&feature=player_embedded[/video] PD: I did not know where to put it, sorry if it is not here.
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 19:58:58
AWSOMENESS!! :P mind if I practise it and use in a collab?
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 20:02:03
Name would be The 2h fall ;). or something that has fall on it because the pen is falling.
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 20:12:50
It should be the name you said to me: The System Fall. P.D: Awesomeness :bowdown:
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 20:25:59
LadronDeMigajas;36854]It should be the name you said to me: The System Fall. [/QUOTE] I agree with LadronDeMigajas, it should be "The System Fall" it sounds epic and it sound way cool ;). [QUOTE=fang wrote: mind if I practise it and use in a collab?
Tricks are meant to use them <_<, so he is sharing his trick so we all can use it and that way also he gets credit for this trick ;). -
Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 20:53:35
Wait, I need to use it first, since this trick has been invented by me. Once I use it oficially, you'll be able to use it when you want. I'll post here when I use it.
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 20:57:31
Interesting idea, thought getting it smoothly into a combo might not be easy. Good job though, I don't think I've ever seen this one before~
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 21:52:03
looks good dude nice job :))
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 22:00:59
Very cool, I would name it something closer to conventional names completely new, like "inverse waterfall" I think it'd be really cool to see that done in reverse :p EDIT: since when did you have to ask permission to use a trick? 0_o he released it already...
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 22:28:21
System wrote: Wait, I need to use it first, since this trick has been invented by me. Once I use it oficially, you'll be able to use it when you want. I'll post here when I use it.
Heads up bro, IP doesn't work on the internet. Just saying, you can't exactly enforce that no one else can use it until you do. -
Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 22:34:49
Fingercross? :D
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 22:55:23
FL Tipped something... Try doing inverse and reverse?
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 23:09:20
I like the name "system fall". seems to fit the trick :)
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Date: Tue, Nov 23 2010 23:09:53
I like the sound of "System Fall"
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 01:22:20
Never seen it before.. Very original. I agree with everyone else with "System Fall."
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 01:24:23
System cross seems very undescriptive... :| I don't think it's a good name. How about, tipped waterfall, or fingerless pass or fingerless waterfall....
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 02:57:15
shoeman obviously wants control system fall now make a release version and other tricks using combined hands :thumb: epic trick start of something new? you sir have revolutionized 1p2h forever edit: oh sure shoeman rate everything bad that goes against what you say/dont like. very mature
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 03:13:12
Looks somewhat like a 1p2h Sonic Fall or at least a variation of Sonic, IMO. I'm not exactly sure if it's new or not. But looks pretty good, cheers for that. :clap: :thumb:
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 03:28:07
@Enkronidus ; I think you might be right, if you do it and actually hold the pen so it pivots between the two fingers it's a sonic motion, idk if a different name could be given to a fingerless version, but it seems like it is a 1p2h sonic fall around the other hands finger (oscilating from hand to hand), very creative and original though 0 _ o, I wonder if you can do it on the inside of the hand as well (inverse 1p2h sonics). It'd also get interesting as to how to notate compared to when your hands are both facing the same direction or interlinked in different ways. Edit: actually... doing it again you can also do it by just doing a pulling motion, rocking... as well as a sonic variation where it actually creates a conic like rotation... this is the concept by that french spinner a while back which involved rocking the pen from the inside to the outside of the hand (i'll see if I can find a link) ]Edit: After a few minutes of perusing through the topics in UPSB I couldn't seem to find it, perhaps it was purged during the downtime... Anyways it was basically the concept of pushing and pulling the pen across the plane of palm and back of hand. When preforming this trick there are two options you can choose to sandwich and reverse sonic which would also bring the pen down to the next figner, or us a pull to the pen over the other finger. I brought up the other video as it was the same thing but with one hand and 12-1. When you do the trick from 12-23 it becomes a bak/shadow of sorts, which then lends this to be something of truncated neobak fall of 1p2h. That's just my observation, great innovation though :].
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 03:40:30
RR24 wrote: you sir have revolutionized 1p2h forever
Keep on posting. You make me lol. Edit: Actually, I think Enkronidus may be right. After looking at it again, it look suspiciously like an assisted tipped sonic fall. -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 04:05:53
Again, after reviewing the video I see I have been incorrectly (whoah there are multiple ways to do this 0_o) The way he is doing it seems to be a 1p2h assisted tipped sonic as hoiboy stated. So far I have observed from myself and the video three possibilities to this "trick" [B]1.[/B] As shown in the video a use of gravity and pressure from the other finger to push the pen / let it go down finger to finger, in which case this is a 1p2h tipped sonic using every finger (very cool) [B] 2.[/B] This can also be accomplished by pulling the pen inwards with the opposite finger so that the other side comes up and then letting it fall (instead of straight fingers; using a pulling motion) I'm not sure what this would be... [B] 3.[/B] Have a full sonic reverse motion in which case it wouldn't be tipped however the fact that this is possible (if very hard) shows how this is very closely related to the sonic. 1p2h sonic fall. In any case I think this innovation of having your fingers interlinked while doing a 1p2h trick has actually solved a lot of problems. for instance a lot of tricks couldn't be done 1p2h simply do to the fact that your fingers face different directions, this adds another dimension... So from what I've seen/read it seems most like a [B]1p2h tipped sonic[/B] fall but one that utilizes all the fingers. The intresting thing a bout it is that this can be done in inverse (theoretically). I think it really brings out how complex 1p2h can be and how standard notation may not be able to describe all the tricks (and could limit) the development of such. For instance 1p2h tipped sonic could refer to a number of things from this to using a finger to assist the tipped sonic of another hand. Looking forward to seeing what else can be done in this interlocking 2h position though (seems like it has potential) [try the inverse with fingers interlocked inward and wipers?) or even real 2handed charges.. :p Edit: Looking at the video again it seems to be a combination of 1 and 2,, he is pulling the pen in to allow it to fall be gravity to the next finger, (looking at one hand it seems like an assisted sonic.... perhaps not tipped although the trick could be done with a tipped where in instead of pulling you simply pushed down... so it would more resemble a [B]1p2h sonic fall[/B] How does it resemble a sonic? for one, the pen doesn't change sides, for instance the tip facing the left is always facing the left, and the pen moves around the finger in a vertical conical way... The difference is that, since your hand doesn't have to fingers the other hand uses it's finger to supply the torque on the pen, this leads me to believe it is in fact a 1p2h sonic fall... which just... blows my mind. >.< (what do you guys think?)
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 04:54:16
It is not tipped sonic fall or nothing like that, tipped sonic supposed to be with the thumb and a different finger, in this case he is using different fingers for each motion, also, tipped sonic should be steady and at least 1 motion(up and down) between 2 fingers (which is usually the thumb and the index). And that does not apply in this trick. Also why would it be a sonic fall with 2 hands, Sonic is 1 revolution from 1 slot to another, it does not apply here, this does not even have revolutions. What is up with these people <_< lol. Many have agreed already with "The System Fall", but it is up to System now, his name is on it, and it looks like is falling.
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 05:10:11
Escorpio123 wrote: It is not tipped sonic fall or nothing like that, tipped sonic supposed to be with the thumb and a different finger, in this case he is using different fingers for each motion, also, tipped sonic should be steady and at least 1 motion(up and down) between 2 fingers (which is usually the thumb and the index). And that does not apply in this trick. Also why would it be a sonic fall with 2 hands, Sonic is 1 revolution from 1 slot to another, it does not apply here, this does not even have revolutions.
Tipped sonic/charge does not have to include the thumb. Also, tipped sonic does not have to be steady. Just because I do a tipped charge 12 upside down parallel to the table doesn't mean it's no longer a tipped charge. The whole concept of assisted spinning is to perform simultaneous tricks with two hands, as shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWV9fvfWV0 -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 05:17:12
i think that this trick is something like a finger tipped pass 1p2h.. but for me is a "system fall" yeaaaaaaaaaah!!!1!
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 05:20:06
hoiboy wrote: Tipped sonic/charge does not have to include the thumb. Also, tipped sonic does not have to be steady. Just because I do a tipped charge 12 upside down parallel to the table doesn't mean it's no longer a tipped charge. The whole concept of assisted spinning is to perform simultaneous tricks with two hands, as shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWV9fvfWV0
Tipped charge? where is the charge in this trick, tell me, is there a motion? is there a revolution?, No. That explanation u have does not apply, understand that <_< -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 05:39:00
Escorpio123 wrote: Tipped charge, where is the charge in this trick, tell me, is there a motion? is there a revolution?, No. That explanation u have does not apply, understand that <_<
You're not seeing it then. He's doing a tipped sonic fall with both hands almost simulatenously. I don't think you understand what a "tipped sonic" is. -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 05:45:45
hoiboy wrote: You're not seeing it then. He's doing a tipped sonic fall with both hands almost simulatenously. I don't think you understand what a "tipped sonic" is.
Ok. As you said then, I won't discuss anymore. It is system's choice anyway. -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 08:18:44
Escorpio123 wrote: Also why would it be a sonic fall with 2 hands, Sonic is 1 revolution from 1 slot to another, it does not apply here, this does not even have revolutions. What is up with these people <_< lol.
I doubt that, look carefully. It's 1.0 from a slot to another. Tell me if I'm wrong, but still, I see no difference from this and Sonic at all. But for Tipped Sonic that you guys are having discussion, I truly have no idea about that. =/ -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 12:19:57
I'm happy to see that my concept shown in Andromeda Project inspires other spinners and lets pen spinning dimensions increase ^^ For the trick, it first reminded me a Stall Fall (see Pyralux's video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53ap2_stall-fall_creation), but with a 1p2h interlinked hands position. But I find interesting to see it as a 1p2h Sonic Fall, then it would be something like: Sonic Rev T1-11' ~ Sonic Rev 11'-1'2 ~ Sonic Rev 1'2-22' ~ Sonic Rev 22'-2'3 ~ Sonic Rev 2'3-33' ~ Sonic Rev 33'-3'4 ~ Sonic Rev 3'4-44' They are all interrupted because there's not really a catch (the pen continues falling all the time without a minimum pause) and the push is fingerless (the pen rotates pulled by the force of gravity). The singular hand position just makes these Sonics to be odd. On the other hand, I don't see it as a Tipped Sonic Fall because both hands form an angle and give a conic motion to the pen. It could be possible to perform this trick as a Tipped Sonic Fall, but only if the angle is 0 (and therefore, the hands are parallel), and depending on the push/catch it would be more like a Stall Fall.
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 14:03:06
It seems that I didn't express myself right with my previous comment, I was not saying that you cannot use it (I posted it so everyone who wants can use it), but I was saying that I'd like to be the first one to use it in a collab. PS: Sorry about the misunderstanding
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 14:19:19
Freeman wrote: On the other hand, I don't see it as a Tipped Sonic Fall because both hands form an angle and give a conic motion to the pen. It could be possible to perform this trick as a Tipped Sonic Fall, but only if the angle is 0 (and therefore, the hands are parallel), and depending on the push/catch it would be more like a Stall Fall.
Great, I'm not the only one that sees this :p I think @Freeman; your observervation of the use gravity, in a way a normal 1h sonic rev can utilize gravity with little push as well, if you did a more conical push you could get more wobble and therefore a more conical 1p2h sonic reverse. I think confusion with the tipped sonic was do to the lack of obvious conical motion,due to hand and wrist movement in the video. In this way, you could also do a charge in this position by using the opposing finger and rotating in a circle against the back of your other hand... (after trying it a few times it seems like you could use the opposing knuckle for leverage and roll the pen using your finger against it to get a conical motion, would take some practice though.) IN another version you could also use the two figners from opposite hands polaced inbetween in a sort of sandwhiched fashion an preform a traditional charge with one figner facing the opposite direction of the other... damn I think for naming, System and the community will decide on a name for the hand position, otherwise I think conventional naming, calling it what it is will help keep things simpler... (undoubtedly people will call it the system fall or something)... but this crossed hands position lends itself to a lot of interesting tricks. For instance that charge I mentioned and basically anything In fact, I suspect, with enough dexterity you could do around and wipers... (just tried it, it's possible but involves a lot of hand movement due to the restrictions on the joints). Perhaps the prefix System or Sys could represent the hand position aka sys sonic rev t1-11', I've never been to happy with hand position notation... A prefix could be cumbersome so perhaps a hand notation of Sys or SS; Anyways, my two cents... (I've been playing round with this since last night the tricks actually kind of fun to preform xP) After observing again there are many different ways to do this after looking at it as a sonic fall, you can use the knuckles of the hand as a elver, or you can use the bent fingers to push it down as well, they are all the same, only the pen leverages from a different part of the opposite hand... In any case I think this could lead to some very intresting tricks. -
Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 15:20:42
@System no prob, I get it. but first I have to master it. that is going to be hard, cuz I am still a noob!
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 15:26:24
I think the best way to describe this hand position is "clasped"; it's more descriptive than something like "sys". Also the "inverse clasped" position is possible, look to my combo at 0:05, there's a 1p2h Pass Fall with this inversed position: [video=youtube;-3UF-LC174A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3UF-LC174A[/video] Also, after filming for Andromeda Project, I had another idea with the normal "clasped" position (similar to the one I did with the "inverse clasped" one). I'll film it in few days.
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 15:43:05
Freeman is truly a genius. :king:
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 15:58:34
Ahaha, freeman that's incredible :p I think what system has done is found a way to do clasped sonics as well (in a realistic manner).
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 19:48:34
It shouldn't be called "Crossed Hand". The system fall sounds nice. Fingercross is ok I guess, but it sounds like it is crossing which Idk if it is happening here.
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Date: Wed, Nov 24 2010 19:50:05
I think Clasped Sonic Fall works.. :\
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Date: Fri, Nov 26 2010 16:54:57
@shoeman Why do you keep pushing a name with sonic in it? System fall is a unique name for a unique trick. By calling it a sonic your just causing confusion because there are so many sonic variations and hybrids. By calling it a System fall people will know exactly what your talking about and not accidently have it confused with another sonic. I vote "System Fall" Well that's my opinion.
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Date: Fri, Nov 26 2010 17:17:31
@Kakashi987; Because it is a sonic fall, System was showing me yesterday on tinychat and he actually got it so that it has a very nice circular sonic motion down :3 I don't see how it causes confusion, we all know what a sonic is, so it makes it easy to understand the motion of this trick because it's the same trick... There really isn't any voting... it's just what the trick is, maybe some people will call it the system fall, but the trick IS a sonic fall. Sonic variations are helpful, think if every trick was named a completely different thing... how confusing and long it would take to notate and communicate what you mean... If they get the sonic fall confused with a clipped sonic, then perhaps they need to spend more time spinning and learning about the tricks... The trick itself isn't unique but the hand position is... personally you can call it whatever you'd like to as long as other people understand it... But it's really not that hard to call it what it is. Again I'm not opposed to giving mini-combo names, but he was asking for a name so I'm suggesting and pushing the actual name of the trick... lol. ex. Think if someone invented the left handed sonic fall (in a world full of right only spinners) and everyone was like cool I didn't know you could do that, and they decided to name i the Zombo Fall, because zombo invented it. Sure it's inovative but basically I'm trying to point out that it's the same thing... giving it another name is just redundant... Then how do we differentiate between the two tricks? Well in this case it seems like the execution from an original the hand position is the real innovation so we put LH: for the left hand, instead of giving new names for everything. It works in this case too. Unless you can show me how this minicombo is made out of tricks is different from a sonic I'm really not in favor of giving it a new name...Perhaps if System invents some hybrids from this position which can not be preformed with one hand (there are many options :p) as you have twice the fingers, THEN I would maybe consider creating a new name... One problem ofc is finger notation as yuo have 10 figners in a clasped position, that needs to be worked out, other wise, it is what it is.
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Date: Fri, Nov 26 2010 20:11:33
RR24 wrote: shoeman obviously wants control
My thoughts exactly. -
Date: Sat, Nov 27 2010 14:13:12
Well, so basically there are three ways of doing this trick: 1- As a Sonic Fall, like we said. 2- A Stall Fall, if you keep the COG on your fingers and let the pen fall without any push, only by the force of gravity. 3- A Baktap Fall, if the pushes are Fingerless, it would be a sequence as (considering 1p2h trick direction notation as for the right hand): Baktap Normal T1-T1 ~ Baktap Rev B11'-B11' ~ Baktap Nor B1'2-B1'2 ~ Baktap Rev B22'-B22' ~ [...] The push for the first Baktap is done on T1, but thanks to 1 touching the pen. When we do the fingerless push, the pen starts to rotate, but then we do the reverse push with 2' in contact with the pen, etc. ______________________________________________ And this is the other concept I was talking about, I only managed to do half of it, but the complete fall is possible: [video=youtube;HNqmP0S0CJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNqmP0S0CJQ[/video]