UPSB v4
Advanced Tricks / Japanese Motion
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 11:15:12
After @HobbyLogics talked about this in UPSB talkshow 1, I've been trying to find all the stuff I can on Japanese motion. And I swear it's really frustrating. I've seen the Akai and Fel tutorials, but I struggled to find the other ones mentioned on the talkshow. I'm still looking for a dead basic explanation of the principle. It looks so clean and effortless, I get the impression that it would be a huge help to at least understand it before I start year 2 of spinning. So if anyone's got links, quotes, explanations or advice, please post them here. And I will be grateful. Thanks. mpc *Big apologies if there is already a thread for this, but I swear I've googled this to death and didn't find one (in English at least).
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 13:02:26
tutorial by walkaz ( but it is not in english) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYirnV95Uvc or maybe @Tigres could do a tutorial on it, if you still don't get it. but it's easy, if you understand the concept
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 13:20:08
Thanks @Walkaz even though it's not in my language. mpc
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 14:14:15
@m1ch1 i said some pretty obvious stuff in vietnamese haha you can still learn without listening to what i said xD
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 14:30:41
@Walkaz's tut) and the PRACTICE . I'm sorry if i don't make sense, sometimes i have trouble explaining things :/.. Hope this helps :D:D:D Slow down Hobby-Senpai's fs because he executes it quite well, then you'll get the gist. (btw excuse my overuse of senpai, since this is Japanese Motion, why not?)
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 14:59:10
The most confusing part about Japanese motion is that it's not a trick. It's the absence of a trick
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 15:49:31
Ceru Seiyu wrote: The most confusing part about Japanese motion is that it's not a trick. It's the absence of a trick
Deep stuff.... ..... -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:17:33
Why do u need to do a twisted sonic bust? Cant you just do pass rev -> twisted sonic?
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:21:13
ShadowParadox wrote: Why do u need to do a twisted sonic bust? Cant you just do pass rev -> twisted sonic?
It helps put it in an actual combo and like ceru says, having a trick before makes it look cool because we expect a rotation there....but there isn't one (I.e the "absence") -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:22:16
@AfroSquared I'm confused. There's definitely half a rotation in Walkaz's example. Mpc
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:26:50
ShadowParadox wrote: Why do u need to do a twisted sonic bust? Cant you just do pass rev -> twisted sonic?
Nobody ever said you were restricted to just one variation -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:27:55
MPC wrote: @AfroSquared I'm confused. There's definitely half a rotation in Walkaz's example. Mpc
No, it's about removing extra rotations, not all the rotations entirely, that's called a spinless trick -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:48:34
Ceru Seiyu wrote: Nobody ever said you were restricted to just one variation
Care to share other variations? -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 18:57:52
Infinite, surely...
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Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 19:18:24
ShadowParadox wrote: Care to share other variations?
Why? If you don't understand the concept all you'll do is just copy the examples exactly. -
Date: Sat, Nov 15 2014 23:03:31
No, Japanese motion just cuts off extra rotation in tricks and directly move them to a different finger slot.
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Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 00:09:33
1: do ext ta 2: switch finger to 23 3: do twisted sonic
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Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 00:21:50
While we are on the topic, what's american motion?
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Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 00:46:27
something what yall do everyday [video=youtube;7vRzJ87ZQzI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vRzJ87ZQzI[/video]
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Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 00:56:36
ShadowParadox wrote: Why do u need to do a twisted sonic bust? Cant you just do pass rev -> twisted sonic?
The twisted sonic in the beginning (I usually start with ext ta though) helps with bringing in the rotation. For this trick, you want to minimize hand turning as much as possible which means your hand should remain palm down. You can just do pass rev 12-23 if you want but it'll look weird due to lack of rotation/momentum (Idk the word to describe it). The following link is a reference. Slomo it if you'd like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvix2OSIxQc @Soren No such thing but we mentioned it as a joke. All you do is drop the pen. -
Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 01:14:31
[video=youtube;3lDLmr39QBA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lDLmr39QBA&feature=youtu.be[/video] Sorry guys, I don't think it's worth learning :( #needtobejapanese
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Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 06:07:53
Gash wrote: Sorry guys, I don't think it's worth learning :( #needtobejapanese
That's why it should be called skip charge. :/ -
Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 10:05:53
JackyMacky wrote: That's why it should be called skip charge. :/
I reckon Dio explained it the best lol, I think i.suk also explained it using that explanation once to me. -
Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 12:17:02
Soren wrote: While we are on the topic, what's american motion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMPu826iu5E#t=2330 at 38:50 -
Date: Sun, Nov 16 2014 20:44:17
JackyMacky wrote: The twisted sonic in the beginning (I usually start with ext ta though) helps with bringing in the rotation. For this trick, you want to minimize hand turning as much as possible which means your hand should remain palm down. You can just do pass rev 12-23 if you want but it'll look weird due to lack of rotation/momentum (Idk the word to describe it). The following link is a reference. Slomo it if you'd like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvix2OSIxQc @Soren No such thing but we mentioned it as a joke. All you do is drop the pen.
Japanese motion does actually need you to move your hand (it works because you move your hand around the pen instead of the pen spinning) see my first trick here: [video=youtube;QolH7ZWlqCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QolH7ZWlqCU[/video] Is a good example of this because I cancel out nearly all of the spins for a twisted sonic. Japanese motion is both removing the charge and substituting the positioning that would normally need the charge by moving your whole hand around the pen. -
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2014 08:37:03
@Tigres just released this video like 15 mins ago and I gotta say, very helpful. [video=youtube;dqnTGcO38sM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqnTGcO38sM[/video] One thing I might add, is that all it is, is a completely palm down, rev pass > tw sonic, I was getting confused and thinking it was a fingerswitch or something, but tigres' vid quite clearly shows that it isnt and by the looks of the other videos, the pass has a slight conic spin in the charge normal direction. plz correct me if I'm wrong tho
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Date: Mon, Nov 17 2014 17:58:27
Thanks for killing my ears at the end there...:C
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Date: Mon, Nov 17 2014 18:59:18
@Tigres thanks so much! That's basically answered all my questions - now I just gotta shut up and practice, practice, practice. Great voice btw. I pictured you making that speech while sat in a comfy chair with a glass of whisky, next to your ample shelves of classic literature. Top job. mpc :)
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Date: Mon, Nov 17 2014 19:17:18
nv16 wrote: @Tigres just released this video like 15 mins ago and I gotta say, very helpful. [video=youtube;dqnTGcO38sM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqnTGcO38sM[/video] One thing I might add, is that all it is, is a completely palm down, rev pass > tw sonic, I was getting confused and thinking it was a fingerswitch or something, but tigres' vid quite clearly shows that it isnt and by the looks of the other videos, the pass has a slight conic spin in the charge normal direction. plz correct me if I'm wrong tho
Just gotta make a comment We do not currently know of any trick other than the "skip charge" (all of fel's stuff were the skip charge concept). Unless you just wanna include normal interrupted tricks (which many would argue are quite different). -
Date: Mon, Nov 17 2014 23:30:51
what exactly is japanese motion? why does it look appealing, if it really does? is it just "cool" because it has the word "japan" in it (i know how much everyone just loves japan, but -- continuing, i'm going to conduct a test on thursday during our school pen spinning club gathering (we have around 15 people now, more to come) to see if it's actually the motion that's appealing, or the name that's appealing. i'll show them a video from each of sgpsc , pds , jeb , upsb , hkpsa, and twps. and before that, of course i'll try to convince everybody that japanese motion is super cool and that jeb has like the best links and best style ._. i probably won't even need to do the convincing, most of the members in our pen spinning club are asian and they think japan is the coolest country; anime, manga, etc. i'll post the results by next thursday, stay tuned. and for all of those who know my personal conflicts with japan, please don't discriminate against me because of that. like. please. i would have done this if it were any other board. just. no. @Lost Angelus you're my psychology person and this is my first psychology test / project, any tips??
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Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 00:35:07
no
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Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 00:51:26
Tigres wrote: no
I second this. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 01:03:12
cl3ud.kr wrote: what exactly is japanese motion? why does it look appealing, if it really does? is it just "cool" because it has the word "japan" in it (i know how much everyone just loves japan, but -- continuing, i'm going to conduct a test on thursday during our school pen spinning club gathering (we have around 15 people now, more to come) to see if it's actually the motion that's appealing, or the name that's appealing. i'll show them a video from each of sgpsc , pds , jeb , upsb , hkpsa, and twps. and before that, of course i'll try to convince everybody that japanese motion is super cool and that jeb has like the best links and best style ._. i probably won't even need to do the convincing, most of the members in our pen spinning club are asian and they think japan is the coolest country; anime, manga, etc. i'll post the results by next thursday, stay tuned. and for all of those who know my personal conflicts with japan, please don't discriminate against me because of that. like. please. i would have done this if it were any other board. just. no. @Lost Angelus you're my psychology person and this is my first psychology test / project, any tips??
honestly, i have been a JEB fanboy for a long time, but i didnt understand japanese motion at all until around last year. when i finally understood what was going on i could understand why it was appealing. so to me: 1) it cuts out extra rotations to make the combo look less spammy. it really just cleans up certain links. 2) it actually feels good to do. i talk about this in episode 1 of the podcast as well. i cant exactly explain what it is, but its just one of those tricks thats satisfying to do. so while it seems like your implied conjecture is that something should not be unfairly over-hyped based on a name or an origin (which i do agree with), i dont think that its the reason why a lot of people find it appealing. these types of (minor) tricks took me a while to understand and appreciate. before that point it didnt seem like it made a difference. so not to offend, but i think that your test might not be as accurate as you think since most beginners dont have that appreciation for such a trick. in fact i know that a lot of relatively experienced spinners dont have an appreciation for it. i guess i dont really mean to say that this concept is under-appreciated, but rather that it is under-realized. i think that this trick SHOULD be used more and that beginners SHOULD try to at least understand it and even learn it. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 09:27:45
'japanese motion' (well, idea of having similar linkage but with 0.5 less charge rotations) was done long ago before recent hype/revival, by ppl such as key3 reasonably sure some old korean spinners of pds era would've done it too, as well as fpsb guys with their interest in weird links why are some japanese motion links more appealing? well, because it can create different effect in hand motion or flow; but sometimes you also want to leave in the 0.5 charge rotation to create certain effects too --> there's heaps of cool combos which look really nice due to finger positioning/control and don't use japanese motion, e.g. makin's solos why do many people like jeb spinners' styles? well, because jeb spinners put more emphasis on how they spin + refinement, stability rather than the trick/breakdown oriented approaches of other boards you should realise that a lot of jeb mx spinners were inspired by old pds and kpsa (fingerpass, woojung, cloud traveller, nagi, kth, pentaenge and many more) so some of the reasons for jeb fanboyism are actually logical; just that there is distinct difference in nub who fanboys over all jeb but can't distinguish different mx spinners' styles with someone who can appreciate the subtleties, different impact/feeling etc side note: i feel this 'japanese motion' has become over-emphasised into hype/trope status lately....
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Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 12:29:25
Reason wrote: honestly, i have been a JEB fanboy for a long time, but i didnt understand japanese motion at all until around last year. when i finally understood what was going on i could understand why it was appealing. so to me: 1) it cuts out extra rotations to make the combo look less spammy. it really just cleans up certain links. 2) it actually feels good to do. i talk about this in episode 1 of the podcast as well. i cant exactly explain what it is, but its just one of those tricks thats satisfying to do. so while it seems like your implied conjecture is that something should not be unfairly over-hyped based on a name or an origin (which i do agree with), i dont think that its the reason why a lot of people find it appealing. these types of (minor) tricks took me a while to understand and appreciate. before that point it didnt seem like it made a difference. so not to offend, but i think that your test might not be as accurate as you think since most beginners dont have that appreciation for such a trick. in fact i know that a lot of relatively experienced spinners dont have an appreciation for it. i guess i dont really mean to say that this concept is under-appreciated, but rather that it is under-realized. i think that this trick SHOULD be used more and that beginners SHOULD try to at least understand it and even learn it.
um i need to stop fighting with everyone but -- our pen spinning club actually has like 5 members on my level if that helps at all???? they just don't know about the boards and stuff because our school doesn't want me to reveal the boards to the kids because they contain some ... non school appropriate things but -- -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 16:54:15
i.suk wrote: why do many people like jeb spinners' styles? well, because jeb spinners put more emphasis on how they spin + refinement, stability rather than the trick/breakdown oriented approaches of other boards
second to that/it actually feels good to do. i talk about this in episode 1 of the podcast as well. i cant exactly explain what it is, but its just one of those tricks thats satisfying to do.
second to that aswell @cl3ud.kr people obsess about jap. motion not because it has japan in it. People are jeb-fanboys because the jebs ARE veryy talented spinners. But jap. motion is a very nice trick, when i saw it for the first time it was executed soooo well that it looked like the spinner had let go of the pen and caught it again. I didn't know what it was, but i knew i had to learn it. I recently came to the understanding that this was japanese motion but by the time i found this out, i had already learned it. I think that most people like this trick solely on the fact that it makes combo's look less spammy....etc (bascially what reason said) but i also kind of agree with you. Anyway i am really looking forward to the results of your psychological manipulation experiment, because i do feel that it is sometimes hyped because of the [B]Japanese[/B] Motion. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 20:23:13
cl3ud.kr wrote: um i need to stop fighting with everyone but -- our pen spinning club actually has like 5 members on my level if that helps at all???? they just don't know about the boards and stuff because our school doesn't want me to reveal the boards to the kids because they contain some ... non school appropriate things but --
Well: 1) 5 is a rather tiny sample size. 2) Isn't the fact everyone is around your level further evidence that you're a group of beginners? No offense to you or anything. Anyhow, my views on this topic are exactly the same as i.suk's. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 21:16:05
How's it even hyped barely anyone uses it beyond the basic variations.
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Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 22:36:15
casual wrote: Well: 1) 5 is a rather tiny sample size. 2) Isn't the fact everyone is around your level further evidence that you're a group of beginners? No offense to you or anything. Anyhow, my views on this topic are exactly the same as i.suk's.
that's the point, that everyone is a beginner, so they're not going to know different styles and stuff. they just look at it and see what's the most appealing. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 22:39:52
Ceru Seiyu wrote: How's it even hyped barely anyone uses it beyond the basic variations.
i'm talking about how japan in general, not just jeb is v overrated. like. anime, manga, vocaloid, etc.??? i mean. if you've really never experienced the japan-obsession, you can consider yourself very lucky. -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 22:47:51
cl3ud.kr wrote: i'm talking about how japan in general, not just jeb is v overrated. like. anime, manga, vocaloid, etc.??? i mean. if you've really never experienced the japan-obsession, you can consider yourself very lucky.
I come from a large board where those people are considered weird and it's frowned upon Also I wasn't even replying to you, I was replying to everyone mentioning it in the thread, who the heck cares about anime in a spinning trick thread lol -
Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 22:53:29
@JackyMacky that doesn't really help me improve. my aim isn't to prove things wrong, it's to actually find the answer to something. i mean like i understand that you guys sometimes find it hard to be serious about things but if you aren't going to be serious then can you just not post at all.
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Date: Tue, Nov 18 2014 22:54:30
Ceru Seiyu wrote: I come from a large board where those people are considered weird and it's frowned upon Also I wasn't even replying to you, I was replying to everyone mentioning it in the thread, who the heck cares about anime in a spinning trick thread lol
oh okay sorry. EDIT : i feel like i'm double-posting too much i'll stop. -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 20:37:40
I think @cl3ud.kr has a point. Japanese fanboyism is very prevalent in the UK - probably because only the good stuff makes it over here. I'm sure Japan has as much crap TV, movies, video games and spinning as any other country, but that stuff never reaches us. But because some of the anime/manga visual style revolves around extreme violence and hyper-sexualised women, British teenagers enjoy it. As for the appreciation of Japanese motion… no, I don't think a room full of noobs would give a representative view of how visually pleasing it is (and I include myself in that noob category). I just think you have to practice an art for a decent amount of time before you can appreciate it in it best forms. If you're new to it, you can't relate to how good it is. I guess it's like any art form - it depends who you want to be judged by. People who aren't really into films might have a great night out watching Transformers 7, and might watch Casablanca and be like "this is dull and confusing". But people who are really into films will have the reverse opinion. Some movie directors would rather take the money that comes with low-brow thrills, whereas others would value the acclaim of peers and critics more than box office revenue. As for spinning, I think you mostly attach the most value to the opinions of your peers (or seniors, in terms of experience). So it makes sense that a trick which is hard to master and makes combos look cleaner and less spammy will be appreciated by those who can relate to the wider context. Besides… Japanese stuff is cool. mpc
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Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 21:50:57
cl3ud.kr wrote: like. anime, manga, vocaloid, etc.??? .
come on now even you cannot deny those are really good :P -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 21:51:49
MPC wrote: Besides… Japanese stuff is cool.
you see my point... -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 21:53:34
AfroSquared wrote: come on now even you cannot deny those are really good :P
okay i'm going to use korea as an example since i don't know much about the cultures of other countries but -- korea has kpop, manhwa/webtoons, kdrama, etc. i'm pretty sure other countries have their own cool things as well?? -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 22:03:36
cl3ud.kr wrote: okay i'm going to use korea as an example since i don't know much about the cultures of other countries but -- korea has kpop, manhwa/webtoons, kdrama, etc. i'm pretty sure other countries have their own cool things as well??
#cl3ud just said no more double posting :P True like england has programmes bashing immigrants for taking jobs, too many immagrants. We also have teenage nudity being sent around (alot like woah). We also disgrace the face on anime by advertising it as a aimple cartoon. And shooting innocent black people (only joking....but the london riots were caused by...) No offence, but asians are REALLY smart and come up with awesome stuff and hobbies like contact juggling etc. We from a universal aspect fail in comparison, this is why I think many people like japan. -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 22:08:03
I dunno about you guys but I f***ing love French stuff. mpc
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Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 22:24:19
AfroSquared wrote: #cl3ud just said no more double posting :P True like england has programmes bashing immigrants for taking jobs, too many immagrants. We also have teenage nudity being sent around (alot like woah). We also disgrace the face on anime by advertising it as a aimple cartoon. And shooting innocent black people (only joking....but the london riots were caused by...) No offence, but asians are REALLY smart and come up with awesome stuff and hobbies like contact juggling etc. We from a universal aspect fail in comparison, this is why I think many people like japan.
well um. japan isn't really known as the REALLY smart (in terms of education) countries, those are like korea, singapore, taiwan, china, hong kong, etc.. and um. "we from a universal aspect fail in comparison, this is why I think many people like japan.". um??????????? there are a lot of other smart and cool countries........ it isn't just japan?? -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 23:07:17
cl3ud.kr wrote: well um. japan isn't really known as the REALLY smart (in terms of education) countries, those are like korea, singapore, taiwan, china, hong kong, etc.. and um. "we from a universal aspect fail in comparison, this is why I think many people like japan.". um??????????? there are a lot of other smart and cool countries........ it isn't just japan??
still better than america -
Date: Wed, Nov 19 2014 23:36:28
AfroSquared wrote: #cl3ud just said no more double posting :P True like england has programmes bashing immigrants for taking jobs, too many immagrants. We also have teenage nudity being sent around (alot like woah). We also disgrace the face on anime by advertising it as a aimple cartoon. And shooting innocent black people (only joking....but the london riots were caused by...) No offence, but asians are REALLY smart and come up with awesome stuff and hobbies like contact juggling etc. We from a universal aspect fail in comparison, this is why I think many people like japan.
contact juggling was mostly advanced by westerners. This belief that the east is smarter/more progressive than the west can be super silly. The Japanese and Koreans are very racist towards westerners and this has been observed a lot. It's important to remember that both Japan and Korea might seem high-tech (I mean wow robots, nintendo and samsung), but western countries do the same things, it's not like any country is leading the world in technology. Also those two countries in particular are socially backwards. A woman in South Korea had her application denied because she was Irish because "the Irish are drunk" and both countries are known for being homophobic. Also the work ethic in Japan and South Korea is absurd and completely immoral to be ingraining that shit into their fucking kids. PS the japanese don't like weaboos. You live in the UK, we have one of the best legislative systems in the world and we're one of the most socially developed countries in the world, next to places like Sweden and Denmark, AS WELL as our healthcare system, low crime rates and huge amounts of individual rights enforceable all the way up to being able to sue the GOVERNMENT ITSELF and I hear people fawning over Japan. What more do you want? not many people actually think like this, you just see them because you're on the internet where it's easy to access anything, and this silly view about eastern countries like Japan is ridiculous. -
Date: Thu, Nov 20 2014 01:10:38
So... What's Japanese motion?
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Date: Thu, Nov 20 2014 03:07:29
Stay on topic. Keep the discussion on trick nomenclature and it's technical breakdown.
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Date: Thu, Nov 20 2014 08:09:21
I'm with Ceru in that being born British is like winning a mini lottery. We have it so good here. I wonder if Japanese motion is something that becomes more appealing \useful the more you progress as a spinner. When you start out, it's all about executing enough tricks to be able to fill a combo, so an anti-trick wouldn't seem that useful. Mpc
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Date: Thu, Nov 20 2014 19:11:25
sorry to all Japanese people for saying ''Jap" i have just been informed that it is offensive.
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Date: Thu, Nov 20 2014 19:43:53
Honest mistake Afro - I doubt anyone would hold it against you. mpc
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Date: Fri, Nov 21 2014 04:44:14
Y'all can just do the American motion