UPSB v4
Regular Pen Discussion / PSA about Airfit & Telescopic Tips
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Date: Thu, Aug 21 2014 19:34:23
While I've been working on a comprehensive index of pens and their masses, I've discovered something peculiar that I believe NEEDS to be shared. I have 8 Zebra Airfit Tips and 4 Zebra Telescopic Tips, and after weighing each one, I've found that [B]Almost NONE of the Tips are the same mass[/B]! So, if you use 2 tips in one mod, make sure they are about the same mass, or else your mod will be extremely unbalanced. The masses of the 4 zebra telescopic tips I have are: 2.21g, 2.25g, 2.05g, & 2.48g. Two have relatively the same mass, but the others are different. For my 8 Zebra Airfit Tips, I got the following masses: 3.57g, 4.18g, 4.30g, 4.11g, 4.30g, 4.16g, 4.82g, 4.08g. By the way, I'm certain that my scale is accurate. Therefore, I cannot attribute the varying measurements I received to human error, but instead are likely the product of manufacturing differences. For example, some of the older tips may look the same as the newer tips, but they might not be the same. As for how this affects your spinning, if you were to accidentally use 2 Airfit tips (Such as a 3.57g & and 4.82g tip), the mass difference is so significant, that making a mod such as a Buster CYL, may not be as simple as it seems. The TLDR Version: Make sure your Zebra Airfit Tips and Zebra Telescopic tips are the same mass before modding.
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Date: Thu, Aug 21 2014 23:26:35
standard deviations hurrrrr
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Date: Thu, Aug 21 2014 23:43:39
just fyi: there are two (actually 3, if you include the mp) types of airfit tips. airfit jell and ballpoint.. the airfit ballpoint tips have a thicker base and is heavier or as heavy as a kt tip, can't recall jell has a thinner base and is a lot lighter than ballpoint to tell the difference just look into the tips where the screws are, you will be able to tell easily the difference between the thickness of the base
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 00:54:09
Standard Deviations don't have any context in what I'm saying. By the way, technically, they'd all be standard deviations. You're correct about there being Airfit Jell Tips and Airfit Ballpoint tips. 3 of the 8 are Airfit Ballpoints, and the other 5 are Airfit Jell. But even with them being different, they still have different masses. With the Ballpoint tips, 2 of them are pretty close (4.32g & 4.28g), but the last one is 4.85g (They're identical in every single way, except mass). The other 5 Jell Tips are 4.18g, 4.16g, 4.08g, 4.20g, and 3.58g (YES, they're identical tips). I believe that different aged tips may be different masses, because there's no other explanation for such a significant difference. I'm just trying to say that the Zebra Airfit tips and the Zebra Telescopic tips are the only tips that I have which have such a wide range of masses. As for the ZT tips, it's not like I got a completely different pen, so I have no idea why they're so different. Before anybody suggests that my scale is trash, or that I'm an idiot, I've measured my Dr. Grip COG tips, Signo tips, and others for comparison. Their masses are within 0.02 g of each other, making their variance negligible. But the ZT tips and Airfits have such a wide range, that it's stupid to dismiss the potential differences in masses as arbitrary.
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 03:01:22
we need better robots to make metal tips for us
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 03:48:21
I think every problem in the world could be solved by having better robots; Including the problem of having bad robots. The point I was trying to make with this post is that ZT tips and Airfit tips are the only tips that I've found to have such varying mass differences. So, when you go to make a mod such as a Buster CYL, people assume the mass of the 2 Airfit tips are the same. I'm only suggesting that people ensure that the tips are EXACTLY the same before they make a mod and wonder why their spinning is terrible.
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 07:01:45
Lost Angelus wrote: I'm only suggesting that people ensure that the tips are EXACTLY the same before they make a mod and wonder why their spinning is terrible.
Well, the thing is, we don't have an exact balance of a DC mod if you've noticed. Some of those grams are negligible. You can have symmetrical weighted ends on the mod but if you think about it, are the internal components symmetrical as well? Buster CYL has a comssa back plug on one end and a marker tip on the other--I heavily doubt those two components are equal in mass. The same goes for comssa mods, pirat mods, and especially AC/CT/KT despite the fact that some of those mods are tipped on both ends. The removable tip on pirat and AC/CT/KT is slightly heavier than the tip on the markers themselves. I've been spinning such mods for quite some time now and notice the slight imbalance. I even went through the trouble rearranging the tips and grips so that it feels "just right". So what you should really be advocating is that spinners should experiment with the weight differences of one kind of tip. Whether the spinner likes a balanced momentum or slightly off-COG is up to them because exact mass on both ends is not the only option nor will it achieve a balance on both ends of a mod due to other components. You also need to account grip weights. Not everyone has amazingly perfect grip cuts. Anyway, thanks for posting this information. :) -
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 07:30:33
Well that sucks :(
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 08:55:58
Thank you for sharing the information to us very usefull
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Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 16:58:30
Lost Angelus wrote: Standard Deviations don't have any context in what I'm saying. By the way, technically, they'd all be standard deviations. You're correct about there being Airfit Jell Tips and Airfit Ballpoint tips. 3 of the 8 are Airfit Ballpoints, and the other 5 are Airfit Jell. But even with them being different, they still have different masses. With the Ballpoint tips, 2 of them are pretty close (4.32g & 4.28g), but the last one is 4.85g (They're identical in every single way, except mass). The other 5 Jell Tips are 4.18g, 4.16g, 4.08g, 4.20g, and 3.58g (YES, they're identical tips). I believe that different aged tips may be different masses, because there's no other explanation for such a significant difference. I'm just trying to say that the Zebra Airfit tips and the Zebra Telescopic tips are the only tips that I have which have such a wide range of masses. As for the ZT tips, it's not like I got a completely different pen, so I have no idea why they're so different. Before anybody suggests that my scale is trash, or that I'm an idiot, I've measured my Dr. Grip COG tips, Signo tips, and others for comparison. Their masses are within 0.02 g of each other, making their variance negligible. But the ZT tips and Airfits have such a wide range, that it's stupid to dismiss the potential differences in masses as arbitrary.
I guess you found a big factory quality control mistake with those ZT tips. There are different kinds of airfits, each type with its own mass. The quality control on these guys should be pretty stringent, though. Surprised there's such a difference.. Zebra Airfit Ballpoint 4.75g ±0.015g (the heaviest of all airfits) [1] Zepra Airfit Gel 3.58g ±0.015g (lightest airfits) [1] Zebra Telescopic 2.43g ±0.015g [1] [1] http://thespyre.net/penmods/?p=2925&lang=en [2] http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=5775 -
Date: Fri, Aug 22 2014 17:51:21
JackyMacky wrote: Well, the thing is, we don't have an exact balance of a DC mod if you've noticed. Some of those grams are negligible. You can have symmetrical weighted ends on the mod but if you think about it, are the internal components symmetrical as well? Buster CYL has a comssa back plug on one end and a marker tip on the other--I heavily doubt those two components are equal in mass. The same goes for comssa mods, pirat mods, and especially AC/CT/KT despite the fact that some of those mods are tipped on both ends. The removable tip on pirat and AC/CT/KT is slightly heavier than the tip on the markers themselves. I've been spinning such mods for quite some time now and notice the slight imbalance. I even went through the trouble rearranging the tips and grips so that it feels "just right". So what you should really be advocating is that spinners should experiment with the weight differences of one kind of tip. Whether the spinner likes a balanced momentum or slightly off-COG is up to them because exact mass on both ends is not the only option nor will it achieve a balance on both ends of a mod due to other components. You also need to account grip weights. Not everyone has amazingly perfect grip cuts. Anyway, thanks for posting this information. :)
I didn't really mean that the tips should be EXACTLY the same; I meant that their mass difference should be negligible, unless you're aware that they are different and plan on compensating for their difference. Maybe the reason why those mods are balanced is because the heavier side has internal components that are closer to the center of gravity, while the lighter side has its mass at the end of the pen. Or the mass is distributed over a larger area, while the other side may have its mass more focused to a smaller area. I could be wrong. Physics isn't my strong suit. I don't remember much from my physics classes lol