UPSB v4
Research Department / RD Activity - General Brainstorm
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Date: Tue, Sep 7 2010 12:13:09
So I noticed to RD has been dormant pretty much since the big switch, I'll be starting a project soon but come on guys! Let's get going. =] Also, maybe post your ideas for projects or what you need help with, help gear up RDv4
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Date: Tue, Sep 7 2010 21:59:04
Well, i am trying to make my new project work, the Global PenSpinning Resellers Map, but the people are just not responding...
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Date: Tue, Sep 7 2010 23:28:47
I'm interested in reviving that Pen case project from v3 if there's anyone else interested
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Date: Wed, Sep 8 2010 00:49:54
Nachoaddict wrote: I'm interested in reviving that Pen case project from v3 if there's anyone else interested
What Pen Case project? -
Date: Wed, Sep 8 2010 01:14:12
This: http://www.upsb.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=18745&st=40 I might just end up trying to make one on my own and see how I fare. Just wanted to see if anyone was still doing it.
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Date: Wed, Sep 8 2010 03:38:34
Can't see that. It must be the fact that i am not a researcher in UPSB v3
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Date: Wed, Sep 8 2010 03:58:15
I'm exploring the idea of performance spinning but It's really sketchy. I got a great idea but it's really hard. Discussing it with BaiMai first when I get more light on it I'll post it up
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Date: Fri, Sep 10 2010 04:17:38
I don't really have the time to contribute too much, but I'd like to seem some work done on nomenclature perhaps. -2p2h/1p2h needs to be finished I think -2p1h might be more difficult, but that's another thing that needs to be done -Spinless combos could use some work (I was thinking about having another line perhaps that indicates the finger position revolving around the pen. First noting the orientation of the hand [PD],[PS], [PU] -- Palm down, Palm side, Palm up -- and then using (T)1234 to indicate where the finger/pen is relative to the other. For example, if someone is holding a pen in 23 with the index/middle over the pen, and ring/pinky under the pen (and PD) then it could be written....... [PD]12-34. With the - representing the pen, and the numbers on the left indicating the fingers above, and numbers on the right indicating fingers below. This was just some rough thoughts I had on notating spinless combos, but it requires more work of course.. but there's an idea I suppose.) -Various tricks need some definite names seeing as how many of them have a lot of controversy. (Seeing as how a name for everything is near impossible, perhaps find smaller movements to name and then those other tricks can be noted with hybrid notation. At the very least, finalize a name on popular moves like Swivel)
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Date: Fri, Sep 10 2010 04:58:51
IMO Naming needs a BIG overhaul. @JC: When I think BD's, I don't think of them being exact representations of the combo. I feel that the point of BD's is to provide a general sense of the combo. If notation got to the point where you could read the notation and copy the combo exactly, then that would be much too complicated. Therefore, extra notations such as palm side/up/down/barrelroll/sideways/upsidedown aren't "good".
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Date: Fri, Sep 10 2010 05:04:44
perhaps the PD, PS, PU isn't a good idea since I do agree that the breakdown shouldn't be detailed enough to be able to figure out a whole combo but breakdowns are there to help guide a person with what is going on in a combo with a video alongside the breakdown combos go rather quickly sometimes (of course people can go the extra step and slow it down and see everything clearly), that having some notation of where the finger placements are would be helpful --and then perhaps after watching the vid a couple times, someone could carry only the breakdown on a piece of paper and practice it on a plane ride or something (it would act as a reminder of certain points of the vid and help guide someone through the combo if they've seen it already several times)
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Date: Mon, Sep 13 2010 00:57:07
i keep putting off my revival of the RD, ill get things started soon
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Date: Tue, Oct 12 2010 06:12:04
I was thinking of something for the wiki/RD... I've never seen any discussion about the evolution of 'ps shorthand'. I came up with the concept back in 1996 or so and started using it to describe combos as it was getting lengthy to write them out in full. It has evolved considerably since then. We could possibly put a time-line and credits to the various new notations. I see some content in the wiki titled "Expanded trick notation" and "Interrupted Trick Notation" other than this I don't see a trick notation, or (ps shorthand) guide, let alone history and all of the other elements that one would like to see in a wiki. If I get some positive feedback here, I will try to get some content started for it, but I will need RD help to build this out properly.
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Date: Tue, Oct 12 2010 17:11:07
the interrupted trick notation is the most formal and general way of notating PS, it is definitely not shorthand. the shorthand notation would have to have to be using hybrid naming, for instance writing Twisted Sonic instead of writing Charge ~ Pass
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:23:42
[video=youtube;q3pmDVrFshg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3pmDVrFshg[/video] I'm not really sure what to say about this, maybe it'd be fruitless to go anywhere with the cocept, or it looks bad, but i haven't yet decided really (i like the first linkage in the vid). See video and vid. description for more information. It's debatable, i suppose, whether doing a trick in a previously unknown or non-conventional way (from the wrong side of the COB) to then be stabilized and chained with something else in order to use it in a combo warrants a new type of naming for said execution of the "starter" trick that is then interrupted. If this is new, and potentially applicable, would it warrant a new type of trick name, or, what seems more probable and logical, a different type of trick modifier than the normal Fingerless, Inverse, Reverse, etc. Comments appreciated, just thought it was an interesting concept I stumbled upon.
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:31:02
Hmmm, that's interesting, in general such notation is usually left out as one pretty much figures out through visual, or actual spinning where the pen is in relation to the COP, and of course pens all have different weights and cogs which would warrant different refrence points for COP and some tricks would have to be preformed differently, much of it is style as well, however I understand what you're suggesting, I think this all comes down to an issue of style notation, however wouldn't warrant a new modifier or trick name as it could get complicated as to what each trick's form would be and whether or not existing tricks are simply modified versions of other tricks. This modifier is already somewhat built into the syntax or context of the tricks surrounding tricks, and whether or not you wish to start from below or above, seems like an issue of style and accessibility of the linkage.
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:34:41
I can't see anything you did that couldn't be notated already? :S
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:36:17
position on the pen can usually be determined from the context of the tricks which surround it.
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:40:13
ok, thanks for the comments guys. And fresh, i guess it could be notated (the first one) as Devil's sonic 23-TF ~ IndexMiddleRingAround .5 TF-34. my point was that, if the devils sonic is executed from the very end of the pen on the wrong side of the COB, its almost as if an invisble wiper occurs due to the stalling from the fail-torque XD EDIT: hmm, the "invisible wiper thing didn't really turn out right in that vid, idk why. but i suppose it's still not worth being anything other than an interesting style. :/
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:40:38
i believe this is relevant [video=youtube;GqVGrgDE_vY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqVGrgDE_vY&feature=player_embedded[/video]
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:43:46
I think the concept of continuous tricks can be related/are closely related to this as well... I see now how a new modifier could be applicable, but what about conic tricks which are "usually" preformed in COG, or wipers, where the other extreme is the same thing, (1 half turn further) or times when a pen has a weight which causes it to be naturally preformed in an incorrect location... While location is often times clear in the notation itself, actually having COG/COP notation, like palm side notation would really aid in sight reading/notation in general.
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:50:06
Yeah, that is indeed relevant zombo. so then....i guess its really just an odd way to start the tricks and use the concept for resetting as in FL tricks to make it work?
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:52:07
I think actual location at the start of the trick is determined by the trick before, otherwise it is a stylistic issue of where you actually do the trick from, as long as it's the same trick, it's not a bad idea to describe location of the pen relative the fingers length wise, but it seems a bit difficult or could be unclear. For instance, continuous tricks end up at the starting point, would this be the opposite of that? as you start from the bottom and end up at the bottom. (for arounds)
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:55:06
I think so, except that rather than bottom>bottom as in normal cont tricks, it's top>bottom>bottom, since top>top>top can't really be sustained
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 17:57:26
What if you went and did the trick, but for instance, did a ta started at the bottom and ended at the top, would this be some sort of anti-trick? It's in the reverse direction but with the same spin.
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Date: Sat, Dec 18 2010 18:10:13
not fully following you w/ the "top" and "bottom" way of referencing it. like, you mean start from wrong side of COB, then catch on right side? idk, that's kinda hard w/ a TA. like, by doing the start of a trick with the wrong side, you kinda (unless you practice alot) have to use it as a transition interrupted to something else, since if done on the TOTALLY opposite side, it can't really be caught normally w/o aerial or motion or something. EDIT: So, forget about this?
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Date: Mon, Dec 20 2010 17:42:15
dunno but if you guys decide to continue discussing this then go ahead and make a topic about it, don't clutter this thread up so much
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 14:37:46
Breakdown and naming tutorial page for new spinners w/ videos?
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 16:40:30
What do you mean? like they post videos and other people break them down?
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 16:54:12
rexamples, and common errors, etc. like a guide to correct notation and breakdowns (practice combos etc.
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Date: Mon, Dec 27 2010 17:17:08
Haha I still don't follow what you're trying to say ... Just go ahead and make the project thread and write up a full explanation
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Date: Tue, Mar 8 2011 23:11:09
Reverse spinning, combos filmed with the tricks done in reverse, then the film is reversed to make a traditional forwards combo. Aka filming but doing reverse power tricks at first as a sort of climax/end and then doing all the tricks but ending backwards.
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Date: Wed, May 18 2011 10:25:47
I posted this on the RD SB before, perhaps we can bring back the Research director again? Just for organisation and perhaps the director could do some delegation of work around the RD so we would be more alive. I'm not proposing that the director would force everyone to do something but maybe if some directions and instructions were given, we'd be more efficient? Also hoiboy suggested that we could get permission to post the RD sign up thread's on all the other boars to get a better and more diverse pool of researchers.
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Date: Thu, Jun 9 2011 14:03:14
I'm going to begin work on the topic of relationships between various aesthetic object manipulations and the impact they have on each other.
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Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 06:30:59
So no one is working on Kammy's? I think we should bring those back and I think our Research team has the potential to organize it. As long as we get a couple committed people it won't be too difficult of a project I think/hope. I'm in. Anyone else? WAIT I remember something about it being in the Vault. Is this true?
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Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 23:55:03
From what I gather, the people in the vault were supposed to handle it but no one stood up to take charge. I was also thinking about bringing it here. I'm not sure whether we are allowed to do it though. Gotta' ask @Zombo ?
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Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 02:49:48
if someone wants to work on it in the RD, that's fine too
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Date: Thu, Sep 15 2011 04:39:34
Simplifying/re releasing interrupted trick notation. http://www.upsb.info/wiki/index.php?title=Interrupted_Trick_Notation