UPSB v4
General Discussion / World Cup 2014 - Round 1 - Results OUT!
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 13:22:04
http://worldps.org/wc14/?p=28 I applied one vote penalty to UPSB and TWPS for overtime. Second offence will be 2 votes, third offence is automatic loss.
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 13:32:40
good job psh
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 14:08:59
GG RNG. Awesome combo RPD, congrats. :)
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 15:05:35
kin lose.......so sad
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 16:51:00
Too bad Kin lost, his combo on that rsvp mx is awesome.
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 18:57:29
Kin lost, Baaron lost, Eriror lost. Wtf please judges
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:02:21
2014 is the year of over throwing thrones.
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:07:23
ChainBreak wrote: Kin lost, Baaron lost, Eriror lost. Wtf please judges
Wooow don't you start. That's insulting to the guys who worked their asses off beating these old legends. There was nothing dodgy in the voting of those battles, all of their opponents threw everything they had into their combos. RPD has one of the hardest combos this round, and it was a really close battle, he likely won because his difficulty scale meets the criteria of the technical match better, and because as a research-spinner, he is going to win in creativity and originality in most matches. Zuo versus baaron was also close, because they both went for the creativity and originality section of the artistic match. It can be debated whether one or the other beat the originality aspect or difficulty judging, and they likely scored the same in presentation and execution as well. What I thought was the most blatant difference was presentation, baaron has dropped lighting and blurry camera, while zuo is much more clear, which would have won him points with all the judges. Lastly, kin vs jin. Kin nearly drops his pen when attempting a pinky punnew and then recovers. Jin also has a better presentation as his camera is in place. It is also debatable whether we should judge the mod in the combos, as well. Mods aside, Jin planned his combo out better and keeps the pen going in one direction, which wins him creativity points, going up against Kin's wiper links. Difficulty wise neither seem to top each other if we are not examining the mod used. They both meet the technical criteria as well as eachother. -
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:33:06
eurocracy wrote: Wooow don't you start. That's insulting to the guys who worked their asses off beating these old legends. There was nothing dodgy in the voting of those battles, all of their opponents threw everything they had into their combos. RPD has one of the hardest combos this round, and it was a really close battle, he likely won because his difficulty scale meets the criteria of the technical match better, and because as a research-spinner, he is going to win in creativity and originality in most matches. Zuo versus baaron was also close, because they both went for the creativity and originality section of the artistic match. It can be debated whether one or the other beat the originality aspect or difficulty judging, and they likely scored the same in presentation and execution as well. What I thought was the most blatant difference was presentation, baaron has dropped lighting and blurry camera, while zuo is much more clear, which would have won him points with all the judges. Lastly, kin vs jin. Kin nearly drops his pen when attempting a pinky punnew and then recovers. Jin also has a better presentation as his camera is in place. It is also debatable whether we should judge the mod in the combos, as well. Mods aside, Jin planned his combo out better and keeps the pen going in one direction, which wins him creativity points, going up against Kin's wiper links. Difficulty wise neither seem to top each other if we are not examining the mod used. They both meet the technical criteria as well as eachother.
Agreed for the first two. But wait... I'm sorry to inform you that first, he does not keep spinning in one direction. Moreover since when has it become creative?? We have 20 fl ta rev in that combo, and I honestly think he shouldn't get more than 1 point in creativity... Spinning in only one direction fits better in artistic btw. I have to admit that his execution is really cool, and that's about it. He only beats Kin in presentation & execution, his combo is easy, well executed, neat, not very creative, and you know ... fl ta's are not technical. However I still think he deserves to win even though Kin would have kicked his ass if he wanted to (which is sad that he didn't), and I can see that Jin tried hard to beat Kin. But the reasons you've just listed are not the right ones... If I had to judge this battle real quick, it would be : Jin : 4.5/5 2.5/5 1/5 4/5 2.5/5 14.5/25 Kin : 1/5 4.5/5 2/5 2/5 4/5 13.5/25 -
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:38:31
The only problem with kin was his angle/presentation x.x
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:42:01
Am I the only one that thinks Jin's combo was ridiculously difficult? :( I can't even imagine how to do those tricks even though I know what he is doing. Also TWPSjudge.txt, what does execution mean?
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 20:54:04
@Erirornal Kraione. I'll have to disagree there Iva, the FL TA rev was spammy but his combo was not easy as a result, also remember that he was using it with reverse cont tricks and not just to reset his difficulty. And by one direction, I mean he keeps it like that for extended periods of time with his hand in the same position, which indicates planning. It is creative to design your combo to get that effect. Gonna side with Eriror here.
-
Date: Mon, Feb 10 2014 22:34:16
damn this is insane XDDD i cant wait to see round 2! nice job everybody!!
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 01:07:34
received jeb, added to site for completeness. it does not affect results.
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 02:51:38
i want to see i.suk vs menowa!
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 03:12:07
Enigma wrote: i want to see i.suk vs menowa!
i think we have all been waiting for this. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 07:56:57
Kinda sad Padrace lost.. Not saying I didn't like Ivabra's combo cause I do think he won. I just really liked Padraces creative ideas
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 10:15:43
mmmm not sure about results... I can see how some people may have won...but its really not black and white here. People may have such different tastes on what is "artistic" and what is "technical" its ...odd. It was very clear in previous tournaments who won and who didnt. Id hate to be a judge here. For example, baarons combo is so easy on the eyes. I prefer to watch it over zuos. Though because Zuo may have had more creative elements...he may have won. But ...as an art? Baaron is better represented for pen spinning if i had to show it off to an audience. So i dont disagree with the results here. I had a similar situation with people complaining on my combo vs minwoo. But then again baaron ...is quite unique. So his loses are almost always borderline and controversial. And i am expecting an isuk vs menowa battle. :) im getting my popcorn!
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 11:16:41
somehow I feel like neo said, I didn't see the artistic part on most of the artistic combos. Not sure if it's just my sense of art.
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 11:18:38
JEB totally clean sweeped their score... JEB 3 - 0 PPP... and congrats to DioBrando and Zkhan... keep it up to the next round... :grin:
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 14:55:12
I know for sure that when people complain about spinners being in artistic theme and not making an artistic combo they're talking about me and I get it cause I don't fit in this theme. But the thing that people seem to misunderstand is that Artistic does not mean doing stupid things with your hands, you might be artistic by the way you execute your combo, rhythm, and style, that's what I tried to do, that's what I might have not done well. But people like Mind do fit in this theme without using two hands and crazy concepts like Snow's or Padrace (awesome ideas btw). So please, you guys might have to expect something else from this artistic theme, which doesn't automatically mean doing something else than a regular combo with regular tricks. And to be honest and to give my opinion, I hate this theme and I think we should just remove all the themes or use new ones in the following World cups, but that's my opinion of course (Taichi might not like it, sorry bro :p ), cause making doubles have become almost impossible since almost every concept has been used in the previous editions of the Cup
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 15:33:31
The technical and artistic themes seem to cover one half of the criteria each. Artistic is, in my eyes, one half presentation and one half creativity criteria, while technical is definitely difficulty and execution. It's really awarding extra points to spinners who focus on that criteria, rather than making a completely balanced out combo, because that is difficult to cram into the time limit adequately. Just my $0.02
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 15:46:49
Yeah that's the problem. People judge combos as if the theme was worth three quarters of the points whereas it's only one fifth, and they tend to forget the other basics of the combos. An artistic combo might be also technical, but when it happens people lose their mind. And technical is execution? ...really?
Spoiler
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 16:23:03
Wait, Difficulty and Execution? That's why I only get ±3 points on Theme? Okay... I don't get the criteria anymore. :(
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 16:38:30
My artistic is all about aesthetic, maybe a bit creativity but not that much :(
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 16:46:37
Ivabra wrote: Yeah that's the problem. People judge combos as if the theme was worth three quarters of the points whereas it's only one fifth, and they tend to forget the other basics of the combos. An artistic combo might be also technical, but when it happens people lose their mind. And technical is execution? ...really?
That's just rude. Technical skills include control and consistency, which are the description of execution. @Erirornal Kraione I don't know why you got such scoring on theme, I'd have scored you higher. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 16:54:11
Then why would we even bother using a criteria called "execution" if it's included in the theme? You make no sense whatsoever (sun) Consistency does not describe execution either ... Control does, smoothness does, sometimes if your combo is beautiful it's because of the execution, but consistency... absolutely not. Now I understand why your opinion is so much different of global opinion
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 17:00:18
Ivabra wrote: Then why would we even bother using a criteria called "execution" if it's included in the theme? You make no sense whatsoever (sun) Consistency does not describe execution either ... Control does, smoothness does, sometimes if your combo is beautiful it's because of the execution, but consistency... absolutely not. Now I understand why your opinion is so much different of global opinion
As I said before, Theme makes spinners gain extra points for focusing on one half-area of the criteria. Drop your passive aggressiveness and read my post again. When I say consistency, I imply that the spinner is able to perform the trick easily. If they can perform it easily, it will be performed smoother as a result. Bad execution (primary errors) occur when a spinner attempts inconsistent links and tricks and as a result they are not performed correctly. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 17:19:31
The technical and artistic themes seem to cover one half of the criteria each. Artistic is, in my eyes, one half presentation and one half creativity criteria, while technical is definitely difficulty and execution.
As I said before, Theme makes spinners gain extra points for focusing on one half-area of the criteria. Drop your passive aggressiveness and read my post again.
Your second explanation seems more accurate whereas the first one is wrong. But still, technical does not include execution, like it or not. And you're just assuming I'm aggressive because I disagree with you, which is your mind since I'm not. :) If you talk about the way you execute tricks coming late in a combo you might call it consistency but it's completely what the execution criteria is for... Consistency means being able to keep coming with wtf/nice/outstanding/interesting/wow tricks during the whole combo, which has a direct impact on the difficulty criteria, that's what you seem to not understand. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 17:38:45
Ivabra;276926]Your second explanation seems more accurate whereas the first one is wrong. But still, technical does not include execution, like it or not. And you're just assuming I'm aggressive because I disagree with you, which is your mind since I'm not. :) If you talk about the way you execute tricks coming late in a combo you might call it consistency but it's completely what the execution criteria is for... Consistency means being able to keep coming with wtf/nice/outstanding/interesting/wow tricks during the whole combo, which has a direct impact on the difficulty criteria, that's what you seem to not understand.[/QUOTE] No, I can debate nicely with Eriror or Zkhan on UPSB just fine, because they don't pull stuff like this: [QUOTE=Ivabra;276923] You make no sense whatsoever (sun) [/quote] Yeah, add a condescending smile, how friendly you are. [QUOTE=Ivabra wrote: Now I understand why your opinion is so much different of global opinion
Completely unneeded, can't you just talk about the topic without trying to disproce everything of me entirely. Your previous posts were fine, but until you can stop being an unjustified prick you shouldn't be replying to people and shitting all over them. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 17:47:06
Now I understand why your opinion is so much different of global opinion
Meaning that I can see the fact that you have a completely different opinion from most people (which is basically not a big deal) and that's why 90% of the spinners on UPSB don't agree with you. The difference between the others and I is that I take time to explain to you (apparently I'm just wasting my time) why you might be wrong, you can take it or leave it, but since I'm a prick who shits on you, just keep misconceiving about penspinning and keep getting shitted on by people. -
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 18:33:07
Not going to quote anyone so I dont get a shitwave over me. I love everyone <3 I've had this discussion about judging (and I suppose that any experienced spinner too) a lot of times with some of my spanish friends. Yaemgo and I tried to develop a new system, so we could test it in the eurotour and then, if it worked nicely, use it in WC14. The conclussion was, summing it up a lot, try. Its really difficult because you get in a lot of philosophical debates and stupid definition troubles: - Define smoothness, creativity, control, solidness, difficulty, presentation, style, artistic aspect... - Once you have them defined, try to quantify those decissions so you can mathematically compare and make that solid - If we dont like the actual ones.What criteria would you set that are completely objective? - Whats more important in a themed battle, fitting to the theme or the combo itself? (remember that theme is 1/5 atm) If the theme is the most important thing (because theme = the criteria he's been more focused on) - What do we judge in each theme? If actual themes are subjective too - If we dont like the actual ones.What themes would you set that are completely objective? Judging, by definition is comparing, so... - Should you compare one combo with another, or with the general level in psing, or with your level, or with a fixed chart? - If you do the first option, then what if you can't? i dont know how to compare power difficulty against finger dexterity/flexibility To compare two things, there must be common aspects, and even when both combos are quite similar, you are letting some things uncompared. If you compare everything... then aren't both combos the same? - If you do the second option, define general level of psing. next - If you do the third one, you are giving advantage to one spinner. Your level will always be closer to the style of one oponent than the other. The fourth seems the most accurate for me. Indeed, we are using this method now, just that the charts are not really complete. Making that chart last a long time and surviving more and more styles seems impossible for me. Also, how are we going to make it if we can't even define the criteria we use to judge? (sun) PD: Yes, we could make combo judging completely subjective and forget any criteria. But we aren't. That would start the third World War lol
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 21:51:00
Just putting out my opinion. There is no doubt that...(obviously) -you can't say your combo is difficult or original unless you appeal it that way.(difficulty, and creativity) -in order to appeal your combo you will need to execute it perfectly in the right environment.(execution&presentation) -and the audience clarifies it(theme) Everything links each other. All 5 criterias' are equally important, and without one of the pieces the others break down.(kinda like when a jenga tower falls down) end of story. My only problem is letting young spinners, who don't give a damn about "watching" the combos of the spinners, judge in WC, but that doesn't seem to work since most old spinners retired. btw wheres taichi when we need him for these kinda arguments?
-
Date: Tue, Feb 11 2014 21:53:49
@taichi1082 You have been called upon. :P
-
Date: Wed, Feb 12 2014 06:59:48
I personally have always thought that Technical includes mainly difficulty and other factors such as speed,(which is still difficulty btw) while artistic focuses on creativity and presentation.
Ivabra wrote: But the thing that people seem to misunderstand is that Artistic does not mean doing stupid things with your hands.
woah woah woah slow down there hotshot. I strongly believe that I am an artistic spinner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDF3-xcTrH0 -
Date: Wed, Feb 12 2014 15:43:45
PPP's judging: ppm creativity 5 lol
-
Date: Wed, Feb 12 2014 20:31:22
Imo burn.
-
Date: Fri, Feb 14 2014 20:55:48
Erirornal Kraione wrote: @taichi1082 You have been called upon. :P
ugh... -
Date: Fri, Feb 14 2014 21:14:54
taichi1082 wrote: ugh...
-
Date: Fri, Feb 14 2014 21:27:49
Ivabra wrote: And to be honest and to give my opinion, I hate this theme and I think we should just remove all the themes or use new ones in the following World cups, but that's my opinion of course (Taichi might not like it, sorry bro :p ), cause making doubles have become almost impossible since almost every concept has been used in the previous editions of the Cup
I totally agree with everything you said in your post, no sarcasm, no joke. You are also right about how people misunderstand Artistic, how Mind can pull this off with his regular spinning and how you suck at it.