UPSB v4
General Discussion / The united system of judging.
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 15:50:22
Hello guys! I thought a lot about the system of judging in pen spinning. To my surprising there is no the united system of judging all over the world. From my point of view it's neсessary to create the system which will be identical for all pen spinners. My suggestion:we'll be able to create two kinds of judging:1) one person vs another person(examples:UPSBT,AT,World tornament). 2) one group of people competes with another group of people(examples:team tornament,World Cup). The advantages: 1) We can compare the results of any tornament or battle for each year during some years. 2) We can compare the level of tornaments or battles with each other. 3) So, I can judge about my real level in pen spinning. It's neсessary to create the criterions for judges: for what the points can be get and for what the points can't be get. At the result the judging will be more objective. What do you think about my suggestions?
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 16:20:58
isn't it the WT judging criteria?
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 16:38:21
the WT system has been adopted in various tournaments lately, but it is open for improvements.
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 16:48:20
why bother changing the judging system when most judges would fuck up whichever system you impose.
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 17:27:40
Explain @Pixels. Are you saying they will be bias etc.? Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 17:45:10
Raiz wrote: Explain @Pixels. Are you saying they will be bias etc.? Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2
If you have yet to realise, all the judging is so inconsistent, unreasonable, and the worst part is that many dont make sense. Especially in upsbt and AT. Go check it out. -
Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 18:02:51
@Pixels i will. thankyou
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 18:02:53
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 19:10:40
Sad that IPSA died, it would solve some judging problems....
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Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 19:30:55
Pixels wrote: why bother changing the judging system when most judges would fuck up whichever system you impose.
Yeah, fuck upsb -
Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 20:41:34
RPD wrote: Sad that IPSA died, it would solve some judging problems....
Where there is a gap to be filled, fill it ^^ -
Date: Fri, Aug 2 2013 23:46:08
@Raiz Let me give you an example. WT13 R1. Didnt make it to R2 [video=youtube;56QKjb-z3Pk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56QKjb-z3Pk[/video] Seems legit
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Date: Sat, Aug 3 2013 01:16:33
[QUOTE=DArKT;266423]@DArKT. is there any comments, feedback etc, i can get from the judges??
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Date: Sat, Aug 3 2013 01:37:34
Well the problem is the people who can actually judge are experienced spinners who wants to take part in the tournament instead => participants make better judges than actual judges
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Date: Sat, Aug 3 2013 03:51:33
Walkaz wrote: Well the problem is the people who can actually judge are experienced spinners who wants to take part in the tournament instead => participants make better judges than actual judges
I think we should decide this problem. -
Date: Sat, Aug 3 2013 09:21:50
not really. I'm sure that lots of oldies will want to help if asked ^^ "Why bother changing the judging system when most judges would fuck up whichever system you impose." If the judge doesnt know being in a WT/WC, or what this means to the participant, then he should not be a judge. If he knows and still fucks up, then he is a bit retarded and he should not be a judge. The idea of a judging comitee is to have a group of not biased, logical people that, if they want to, can be judges in big events like WT/WC/UPSBT etc. Also, people could get kicked off that group if they mess up things. But wait, this is like some serious project. How can this grow in psing world? :_(
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Date: Sun, Aug 4 2013 06:53:22
I think you'll need to ask sparking on this topic. Because as far as I know, JEB takes every spinner seriously, including mx spinners. In NPF, Beige placed 2nd behind Menowa*, Mart placed 3rd, and Kay placed 4th. It's quite obvious that in Japan, people take pen spinning more seriously and they will consider every type of spinner, including mx spinning difficulty. Execution and control obviously the important aspects in JEB judging, and as well as being unique. The WT judging system is out of 5 for different aspects of the combo. If it was out of say, 10, then it would be easier to mark since many people already use 0.5 points in their judging. Also, if a more formal system of judging was added, such as taking off certain points when they make a mistake (taking less points if it was a messup in a very well done combo), offcams, presentation problems, etc. It could make it easier to judge. If we adopt a formal system, we could also adopt a system where there is a criteria, which is a data table describing the aspect of pen spinning on each point the spinner recieves. (ex. 1/10 Execution: not appealing to the eye.) edit: This would require the participation of all the boards to agree on something, although JEB should have more power in contribution because they have a very formal judging method.
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Date: Thu, Aug 8 2013 14:48:24
Thank you for your advice and statements. Now I can't develop my project. I only wanted to know the point of view of members about this idea. This Thread will help me in the future for realisation of my project.
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Date: Thu, Aug 8 2013 18:39:19
HobbyLogics wrote: I think you'll need to ask sparking on this topic. Because as far as I know, JEB takes every spinner seriously, including mx spinners. In NPF, Beige placed 2nd behind Menowa*, Mart placed 3rd, and Kay placed 4th. It's quite obvious that in Japan, people take pen spinning more seriously and they will consider every type of spinner, including mx spinning difficulty. Execution and control obviously the important aspects in JEB judging, and as well as being unique. The WT judging system is out of 5 for different aspects of the combo. If it was out of say, 10, then it would be easier to mark since many people already use 0.5 points in their judging. Also, if a more formal system of judging was added, such as taking off certain points when they make a mistake (taking less points if it was a messup in a very well done combo), offcams, presentation problems, etc. It could make it easier to judge. If we adopt a formal system, we could also adopt a system where there is a criteria, which is a data table describing the aspect of pen spinning on each point the spinner recieves. (ex. 1/10 Execution: not appealing to the eye.) edit: This would require the participation of all the boards to agree on something, although JEB should have more power in contribution because they have a very formal judging method.
In tournaments, style and mod are really not things to be considered. It's very annoying that even in WT some judges will rate spinners up for style. In a competitive standpoint, you should be looking at creativity, execution and difficulty first and foremost. Because they are not SUBJECTIVE and difficult to deal with. -
Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 09:01:44
eurocracy wrote: In tournaments, style and mod are really not things to be considered. It's very annoying that even in WT some judges will rate spinners up for style. In a competitive standpoint, you should be looking at creativity, execution and difficulty first and foremost. Because they are not SUBJECTIVE and difficult to deal with.
I understand that style can be subjective and not included in the judging, but I never said that it should be. Also, execution can tie itself into style as well, executing tricks in a certain manner. As for mods on the other hand, this could be controversial, because no one (at least so far as I know) can copy mind's wipers on an MX. I'm quite sure it's nearly impossible for other people to replicate kin's combos on an MX as well. But if we think the reverse, from the mx spinner's perspectives, can they spin with a buster the same way as they spin with mx? Sure it'll take some practice to get used to the weight, but yes. The problem with this view of mods is that from what I know, [B]no one has yet made the extreme switch from a nicely weighted mod to an mx as their main mod.[/B] And from many people's experiences that it's not hard to spin lighter mods once you "get used to it". So yes, what you say is true, but keep in mind that all I was doing was implying from what I saw in the ranking of the spinners in the NPF competition. For all we know, that might be an error similar to those judging errors that occur in WT/WC. -
Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 15:00:43
Mind is not the only person capable of doing those wipers with an MX @HobbyLogics. Before I snapped the front end off my normal MX I was trying them out, and it just needs getting used to the smaller end of the MX. Kin on the other hand does power tirkcs with it, which is exceptionally difficult, I don't think anyone else can do like Kin.
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Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 15:09:21
eurocracy wrote: Kin on the other hand does power tirkcs with it, which is exceptionally difficult, I don't think anyone else can do like Kin.
you speak too soon [video=youtube;fMhfjIwvfYo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMhfjIwvfYo[/video] 1/2 year ago filmed in 1 night, sure they are slightly different power but a far wider range is shown =P side note: i hate to continue this somewhat off-topic-ness, but mind's greatest asset/skill is not in his breakdowns (someone with good finger dexterity can copy it), he is insane because he does everything so effortlessly and perfectly even if most spinners 'mastered' breakdowns of mind's wipers, it is highly unlikely they could do them the way he does...in a similar way that nowadays there are some people who can come kinda close to peem's fl records but they never have this stability in their fl combos regarding mods in judging: different difficulty/adapting perceptions and people might fake mods (making 'dc comssa' body longer, putting tips in caps etc) so only in an ideal world would mods be taken into account (i.e. in our imperfect world with people willing to exploit the system, nope) -
Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 15:11:01
There is a difference between being able to do them and being able to do them. Execution goes so much further than just doing tricks without mistakes.
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Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 15:23:12
Erirornal Kraione wrote: There is a difference between being able to do them and being able to do them. Execution goes so much further than just doing tricks without mistakes.
I respectfully disagree :/, sounds too much like taking style into account in execution over presentation -
Date: Wed, Aug 14 2013 15:40:47
I'm sorry, I think you misinterpret my words there. I'm not necessarily talking about style here, but rather the flow and ease of the execution. If you take this and this, I truly believe there is only 1 combo which deserves a 4,5/5 in execution, despite there being no mistakes in either combo. Just because someone is able to do tricks doesn't mean he's able to do them. You might be able to do Mind's linkages, but if you don't have the actual execution to back it up, it means just as little as me being able to copy parts of supawit or Mesi without the finesse they produce. That is where the difference lies!