UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / Korean War II/World War III
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:35:01
Thoughts about North Korea's latest aggressive actions? They cut all connections with S. Korea, nullified the armistice, preparing for war, increased militarization, have missiles aimed at the US and went into a state of war. It looks like China is going to help N Korea and Russia hasn't released anything yet. Do you think a war will start? I am afraid it might and it might turn out big for the tension between Japan, China and the Koreas are quite high. S.Korea and the US are worried too. What are your thoughts?
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:39:23
They've prepared for war and threatened the US before, but nothing ever really happened. I am really hoping that its just the same thing again. However, im not sure. Tensions are really high. The US doesn't want to start the war, and even though they could take out North Korea's WMD's, that would be a declaration of war which would then in turn start WWIII most likely. Urgh, people and their stupid wars.~
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:43:16
Quake wrote: They've prepared for war and threatened the US before, but nothing ever really happened. I am really hoping that its just the same thing again. However, im not sure. Tensions are really high. The US doesn't want to start the war, and even though they could take out North Korea's WMD's, that would be a declaration of war which would then in turn start WWIII most likely. Urgh, people and their stupid wars.~
Yeah but this time it looks serious as they are preparing for war, even the armistice is nullified. If a war happens I only hope it's small or not bigger than the Korean War. It might come down to China, Russia, N Korea and some other countries vs S Korea, US, Canada, Japan etc Idk. The UN needs to act. -
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:49:09
I wouldn't bet on north korea actually declaring war and firing missiles at south korea and the USA. It's suicide to fire weapons at a country like the US, you will have them and their allies on you within seconds. I'm unsure if china would actually go to war with them. Honestly I don't think they'll strike.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:56:17
i'll just hide myself underground in case that happened
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 01:58:27
eurocracy wrote: I wouldn't bet on north korea actually declaring war and firing missiles at south korea and the USA. It's suicide to fire weapons at a country like the US, you will have them and their allies on you within seconds. I'm unsure if china would actually go to war with them. Honestly I don't think they'll strike.
China has already stated they would help N Korea but on N Korean soil only though. It wouldn't make sense for them to strike, but the aggressiveness can't be ignored. -
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 02:36:24
North Korea is unpredictable. D: ALL countries should be prepared. :/
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 03:40:34
I'm in MUN in my school, but just very recently, and i know very little about this topic. but i'll share what i recall, though be warned, it is probably not entirely accurate: N. Korea usually does not attack, but sends threats to see if their opponents will send back supplies in return for peace. That is how they've gotten by in the past. N. Korea also doesn't allow UN inspectors to come check their nuclear energy production. China and Russia have been known to support N. Korea in the past during UN conferences, using their veto power (if anyone knows how UN works), to cancel anything basically involving sending troops/hurting N. Korea. Though, at a very recent UN meeting, China had for the first time, condemned N. Korea for their acts, and supported all the other countries in the UN in taking action against N. Korea. (Russia on the other hand, walked out of the meeting early, so no vetoing that time.) What [B]will[/B] happen, i don't know. The info above is as accurate as i recall. though i agree with Xitra and Raos, threats should never just be ignored. Everyone should be ready.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 03:42:44
blow that damn peninsula.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 05:02:34
hopefully nothing happens -_- i like my way of life
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 05:46:14
IKEEE NOTH KOREA!!! War is the key to attain the one peace, a new world. ASIANS WILL RULE THE WORLD! yey
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 09:41:31
I don't think much will happen. China only likes NK because they are a buffer between SK which is allied with the US. China was good buddys with Jong-Il, Jong-Un is a different story (China actually told him to chill the fuck out) and China doesn't really want war that close to it's borders. Neither China nor the US want to step in though because whoever takes down the NK gov has to take care of the shithole that is the country of best korea. They don't really have the range to hit the US with anything nuclear and I'm pretty sure the US is prepared to defend anything else that is being thrown at them. NK can not win a war and they know that, they don't want to show that though. I doubt they're suicidal since the goal is to keep best korea alive and kicking as the great country it is.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:15:08
Well let's say for arguments sake that: North Korea declares war on South Korea AND has long range nuclear missiles (both unlikely). My bet would be that firstly, the US has sufficient measures in place to defend against long range missiles now, at least against major targets in the US and secondly, declaring war on South Korea would mean that NATO would declare war on North Korea. I very very much doubt that any nuclear weapons would be used by NATO countries, but a conventional strike like never before seen would happen. The country of North Korea would have all known or suspected military installations flattened within 12-24 hours, while South Korea would see hundreds of thousands, or perhaps millions of troops arriving from NATO. Attempts would be made to kill N. Korean political figures with airstrikes and/or special forces. I suspect China and Russia would very much take a back seat unless N. Korea used nuclear weapons on S. Korea, in which case, I think both of those countries and Japan would join the war against N. Korea. Now tell me, if you were North Korea, would you start that war? :hmm:
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:39:49
@Mats obviously If I was North Korea and I had any sense, I wouldn't strike. And yet who knows whats running through their minds. Anything could happen with their craziness. Just gotta hope for the best.~
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 10:48:27
Well the question is, if you were North Korea's main political figures, would you want to die? It's an almost certain suicide for major politicians there if they do start a war and they will know that. If the war did happen, there is no way it would escalate to a third world war. It would be a situation similar to Vietnam or something like that. A horrible war with a lot of death and minor global repercussions, except it would be over a lot lot quicker. I think all of North Korea would fall within a month.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 11:21:35
Do you guys know this propaganda video of north korea? No subs, but it's still funny [video=youtube;4lJODcqUoAw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lJODcqUoAw[/video]
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 18:04:51
North Korea is an example of communism/socialism implemented perfectly. Its economy reached the limits of central planning a long time ago and the rest of the world has far surpassed it. Thus, North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world. A dictator always comes with communism or socialism, and Kim is a perfect example of a madman with too much power. He believes that his country is perfect and has surpassed South Korea, the U.S, the U.K, etc. His country is a demonstration of corruption being a government and people trying not to be corrupt being executed. These are called "Purges". With his belief that his country is economically perfect comes his bloated impression of the North Korean army. His advisers tell him that they need nuclear weapons. They present a good argument and so regardless of sanctions and threats from the western world, he carries out nuclear weapons developments oblivious to the restrictions. He thinks that he is fully prepared to go to war and take over the world. There is no way that his could happen, of course, but they could start a real foreign relations mess. The U.S. is in financial turmoil, despite what the president says, and there is a limit to how far we can go with defense, war, etc. because all that costs money. Furthermore, the U.S. is looked down upon by many other countries in terms of refinement, but is basically the country that actually does things historically, like saving europe. Twice. However, Barack Obama believes that all violence is bad and unnecessary. He will not want to go to war. So, here we have a madman ready to go to war, and the leader of a sizeable military who will refrain from using it at all costs. This obviously produces many problems. How has the UN tried to deal with this? Financial sanctions, mostly. I personally think this is like trying to crash and already wrecked car. Financial sanctions will have almost no effect. If North Korea does go to war, they really dont have a chance. They will be "neutralized" immediately. But, that all decides on what Kim hallucinates next. Will it be war, or peace?
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 19:15:08
N!k wrote: North Korea is an example of communism/socialism implemented perfectly.
Did you even read what you wrote there? :?The U.S. is in financial turmoil, despite what the president says, and there is a limit to how far we can go with defense, war, etc. because all that costs money.
Ahem.But, that all decides on what Kim hallucinates next
He's not mentally ill. In fact, he seems to be much more amicable than his father! N!k, you seem to have no idea what you are talking about here. :dunno: -
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 19:41:06
However, Barack Obama believes that all violence is bad and unnecessary. He will not want to go to war
Yeah, because it is a good idea to go to war with a country that eventually has nuclear arms pointed at you and your allies.They will be "neutralized" immediately.
Great, nothing wrong with wiping out an army consists of almost 6 Million people. Basically,Ecnunn is right. All North Korea is doing aims at getting foreign goods/money into the country. They followed this strategy for centuries now and so far. Concearning the people in this thread claiming that Kim Jong Un and his advisors are madmen: Whether you believe it or not, they know quite well that they would lose a war. -
Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 19:56:21
XiaoD wrote: Yeah, because it is a good idea to go to war with a country that eventually has nuclear arms pointed at you and your allies.
I'm actually pretty sure that either the US knows that N. Korea does not have long range nuclear weapons or that they have a tried and tested method of stopping long range missiles. They don't want to go to war without provocation because it's 'bad for business' i.e. It annoys China, and possibly Russia and Japan, while costing a huge sum of money, with no gain in return. It's not like invading somewhere like Iraq, which is full of oil, or Afghanistan, which is rich in rare Earth metals. -
Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 01:36:45
I'd rather describe the political system as an absolutistic monarchy than a communistic/socialistic system. Also with the amount of north korean missiles aimed at Seoul, they hopefully won't dare to attack South Korea. There are almost 10 million people living in that city, now imagine how many of these people would end up dead after a potential north korean attack. [QUOTE="N!k"]but is basically the country that actually does things historically, like saving europe. Twice.[/QUOTE] Yeah and we all know how well the rest of their involvements in the autonomy of other countries went. Oh well, this is the wrong thread for that kind of a discussion.
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Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 07:36:18
[video=youtube;24R8JObNNQ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24R8JObNNQ4[/video] [video=youtube;xw46Ll-Zy4s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw46Ll-Zy4s[/video] [video=youtube;3HJj85K_7MQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HJj85K_7MQ[/video] Slightly off topic but North Korea is such a unique and interesting (but not good) country. If there was to be a huge war I can almost guarantee N. Korea will have nukes of some sort because (as it seems in this documentary) there is a lot of brainwashing towards hatred of Americans and with the sheer magnitude of their army I would not be surprised.
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Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 10:18:48
Raos wrote: China has already stated they would help N Korea but on N Korean soil only though.
Thats not true actually. And thats also why this is not going to be a world-wide conflict. -
Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 12:41:36
[quote=N!k] but is basically the country that actually does things historically, like saving europe. Twice[/quote]When exactly did this happen? :? Both wars were over before the USA joined. The USA merely sped up victory. It is such a typical argument for Americans to say that America won the wars, when the fact of the matter is, Germany lost the war long before the American involvement. On both occasions, fighting Russia on one side while fighting the UK and France on the other lead to an impossible situation to win. You would have thought the second time around they would have learnt this. :rolleyes: Americans also seem to vastly underestimate the difficulty of invading the UK. Due to the water separating it from the continent, coupled with a fairly large army, decent technology and a large navy, the UK has stood almost 1000 years without being conquered. It is very hard to imagine in any circumstance, the Axis armies managing a successful invasion of the UK and Russia. The war is not winnable from the first day.
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Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 23:41:12
@Mats ( referring to your first post where you flamed me) 1. Yes. I certainly read what I wrote there and I meant every word of it. Communism and socialism have progressed to their logical end in North Korea. Corruption comes naturally with socialism and communism, because there are two classes of people: the central planners and the workers. In theory, you have to work hard to be in the central planners class. But every central planner parent wants their child to be in the central planners class, so bribery and other forms of corruption start to take place. This is because of the main flaw communism/socialism, which is human nature. Humans want everything to work towards their advantage. Communism/socialism basically relies on the central planners being uncorrupted. They aren't. So, soon, if enough people are corrupted, a dictator will arise. 2. No idea what that chart means. Try this 3. That was a cool thing called exaggeration. You should try it sometime. And he may be happier than his father, but he is even more unpredictable. I wasn't trying to start a fight. Perhaps this quote sums it up:
@Mats my guess would be that you are just trying to start anew. Hoping to get away from the name you have made for yourself as the person that challenges people and ends up running away. The type of person that nobody wants for a moderator. Maybe thinking that changing your name will make people forget everything. Trying to hide who you are under a new name does nothing for you. If you're a nice person you'll be nice because you want to be. You shouldn't have to "try" to be nicer.
And when that person asked you to stop picking fights with people:Yes and I promise that I will.
@XiaoD 1. What I'm saying there is that he will not do anything to stop north Korea unless he has to. I believe war is a necessary evil. 2. Okay, first of all, I was using something called sarcasm. (you should try exaggeration too!). Second of all, neutralized does not mean wipe out the entire country. It means to make them not a threat anymore, at least in the context I was using.Mats wrote: When exactly did this happen?
1. It happened in World War One and, quite possibly, World War Two! :) 2. No, in World War one, France was almost dead and Britain was getting weaker and weaker in terms of numbers of troops. That said, germany was getting weaker and weaker as well. America showed up and with fresh troops, tanks, and good strategy, ended the hell in the trenches. There might have been a very different result if the germans had not sunk the lusitania and made america hate them. 3. Yeah, but it would really suck for you if you were completely cut off from mainland europe. Assuming that the axis could make it that far and still have a substantial number of troops.
Both wars were over before the USA joined. The USA merely sped up victory. It is such a typical argument for Americans to say that America won the wars, when the fact of the matter is, Germany lost the war long before the American involvement. On both occasions, fighting Russia on one side while fighting the UK and France on the other lead to an impossible situation to win. You would have thought the second time around they would have learnt this. :rolleyes:
Americans also seem to vastly underestimate the difficulty of invading the UK. Due to the water separating it from the continent, coupled with a fairly large army, decent technology and a large navy, the UK has stood almost 1000 years without being conquered. It is very hard to imagine in any circumstance, the Axis armies managing a successful invasion of the UK [B]and[/B] Russia. The war is not winnable from the first day. -
Date: Sun, Mar 31 2013 23:50:16
Mats wrote: When exactly did this happen? :? Both wars were over before the USA joined. The USA merely sped up victory. It is such a typical argument for Americans to say that America won the wars, when the fact of the matter is, Germany lost the war long before the American involvement. On both occasions, fighting Russia on one side while fighting the UK and France on the other lead to an impossible situation to win. You would have thought the second time around they would have learnt this. :rolleyes: Americans also seem to vastly underestimate the difficulty of invading the UK. Due to the water separating it from the continent, coupled with a fairly large army, decent technology and a large navy, the UK has stood almost 1000 years without being conquered. It is very hard to imagine in any circumstance, the Axis armies managing a successful invasion of the UK [B]and[/B] Russia. The war is not winnable from the first day.
1. It happened in World War One and, quite possibly, World War Two! :) 2. No, in World War one, France was almost dead and Britain was getting weaker and weaker in terms of numbers of troops. That said, germany was getting weaker and weaker as well. America showed up and with fresh troops, tanks, and good strategy, ended the hell in the trenches. There might have been a very different result if the germans had not sunk the lusitania and made america hate them. 3. Yeah, but it would really suck for you if you were completely cut off from mainland europe. Assuming that the axis could make it that far and still have a substantial number of troops. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:07:32
@N!k
What I'm saying there is that he will not do anything to stop north Korea unless he has to. I believe war is a necessary evil.
War should be used as an ultimate measure. As of right now, North Korea is perfectly content with how things are. Provocation is simply used to by North Korea to maintain the status quo. Military intervention in North Korea will do no side any good, the best way to solve this situation is to hope for an uprising of the Korean people. How likely this is is a different question.2. Okay, first of all, I was using something called sarcasm. (you should try exaggeration too!).
I am not 100% sure what you were trying to tell me, I do not see sarcasm in your post. Concearning your exaggeration: As I said before, military intervention will lead to no good, no matter how intese the intervention is going to be. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:10:37
It started out as communistic/socialistic.
Nashi wrote: Yeah and we all know how well the rest of their involvements in the autonomy of other countries went. Oh well, this is the wrong thread for that kind of a discussion.
Erm, examples? I think America helped win the world wars, and that's all I'm talking about. And, do you think that America should have stayed out of the World Wars? Well, you had better give some pretty good reasons because if you don't, it sounds to me like you think that the Germans should have won, because if the americans hadn't stepped in, that would be a real possibility. Maybe you should go start a "Americans Are Really Really Really Stupid" thread. There you can vent about how horrible we are and how awesome Bhutan is. @XiaoD 1. The basic mindset behind the theology of "War is a necessary evil" is that it is an ultimate measure. 2. Yes, of course I meant to say that all of North Korea should be wiped off the map. (see, that was sarcasm!!!)Concearning your exaggeration: As I said before, military intervention will lead to no good, no matter how intese the intervention is going to be.
Umm, exaggeration is not meant to be serious. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:26:58
@N!k
Maybe you should go start a "Americans Are Really Really Really Stupid" thread.
What's with the hostility? There is no point in arguing that the US helped win the wars, however the 2nd world war would have been lost anyways.1. The basic mindset behind the theology of "War is a necessary evil" is that it is an ultimate measure
I am well aware of that, with my statement I simply put emphasis on the fact that the situation does not demand such a measure.Yes, of course I meant to say that all of North Korea should be wiped off the map.
I'm sorry, never thought you said that in the first place. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:36:20
lol @ people thinking anything will happen to america.
NK gonna get its ass buttfucked if they try anything, even china knows this. China will definitely not full out support NK unless it wants a dose of #FREEDOM.
There is a really low chance that this will turn into a world conflict as majority of the countries are against NK.
The damn commies gonna learn their place if a war does break out. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:42:22
XiaoD wrote: What's with the hostility? There is no point in arguing that the US helped win the wars, however the 2nd world war would have been lost anyways.
What she's saying is that America should have stayed out both times, which is basically saying that the Nazis (sorry for using Germans before) should have had a chance at winning. Also, remember that a large quantity of the troops on D-Day were American. Wow. What a flame war. -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 00:52:51
What she's saying is that America should have stayed out both times, which is basically saying that the Nazis (sorry for using Germans before) should have had a chance at winning
I am pretty sure she meant recent involvements of the US and not the World Wars ;)Wow. What a flame war.
All good ;) -
Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 08:03:59
N!k, your posts are simply so poorly researched, uninformed and ignorant, that I'm just not going to reply anymore. :facepalm:
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Date: Mon, Apr 1 2013 23:47:11
@Mats Kari was certainly right. You started a fight, and are running away from it calling me an idiot to try to prove that you win. My posts involving the world wars are most certainly accurate, as I researched them beforehand. The stuff about communism does delve slightly into the realm of opinion, and if you believe in communism and socialism, that is your opinion. Go start another thread.
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Date: Sat, Apr 6 2013 02:44:30
Well, after ww2 almost all the countries acquired nuclear weapons and the world economy became so integrated that another world war would be detrimental to both sides of hypothetical alliances. Another world war is unthinkable because within a week the whole globe would be a waste land and each respected country knows this. Also about n.korea, its highly irrational for them to call for war against the u.s unless the u.s pushes them to a corner with economic war-fare, then they would have no choice.