UPSB v4
General Discussion / Where is pen spinning going?
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Date: Wed, Mar 27 2013 20:33:16
As a forward to this post, I'd like to include a quote from one of my predecessors, Retro-spectre -2006
Where exactly is pen spinning going? I've been interested in pen spinning for quite a long time, specifically since I discovered some of Kam's proto-sites, but I have seen barely any new development. Take a look at any UPSB topic, I guarantee you that you can find several copies of that topic in both UPSB and in this forum. The only development I've seen is helping to build the community, no further construction of the art. Sure, with a bigger community you'll have a rare Delphian anomaly, but the emphasis is on 'rare'. What is the pen spinning community aiming for? For, eventually, everyone to know all the same tricks? People are asking the same questions and getting the same answers, collaborations are just different members going on an ego trip, and the only recent development I've seen is a higher frequency of PS meetings and PS magazine. Most advancement is coming from moderators. I don't know, maybe it's just a rant, but where is pen spinning going?
Many of you may or may not know, but ~2007 was around the highest point for pen spinning, in terms of new developments, media attention, and growth. Pro's have come and gone, but even today we see an almost global trend in the decline of pen spinning, from hits on google, to the tangible loss of drive in the community as a whole, to the fewer and fewer people attending gatherings worldwide. Now that much of the hype has died off, I feel as though we find ourselves in the same position we were in 2006. Retro-spectre again - 2006:And "growing the community" doesn't automatically bring new ideas, it's just a rare anomaly of a productive user that does. Obviously, the mods are highly influential, but that doesn't mean that users should just sit around waiting for UPSB or turtlespin to come back. Look at who created this forum, they are an example of a productive user, and same goes with whoever backed up turtlespin. The majority of the pen spinning community is sitting on their asses waiting in a dark room for some new form of content they can live and breathe.
Ask yourself, does this sound familiar? But there is a major blockage of growth in our community and encourages a state of stagnancy. When there are New pen spinners telling OTHER New pen spinners not to spin heavy mods, based on the tastes of the majority of pen spinners from several years ago (which have changed!), and all sorts of mis-information and counteractive theoretical arguments and discussions, It's always one step forwards two steps backwards. - S-L Mafia - 2006I'm sure most of us have wondered when pen spinning will emerge from its chrysalis. Like you said, spinners would rather sit back and play follow-the-leader instead of taking the initiative because they shy away from the daunting task of improving PS by a respectable degree. A cadre of pen spinning mavens improved the art to its acme at UPSB, but then these experts began disappearing into thin air and other spinners were unwilling to assume their roles in the vanguard of the PS movement. Pen spinning was stopped in its tracks, but even worse, it began to decline; so much so that to resurrect it at this point would require an almost monolithic effort. The ironic part is that a fair number of spinners are actually bringing the art down by debasing it. This is another reason some members left UPSB. Anyway, I think some people are happy with the way PS is right now and don't want it to go anywhere, and the art will technically "survive" as long as it has participants. However, it is undeniable that change is a prerequisite for prosperity.
Quoth the Zombo - 2006obviously it is not going anywhere for now... veterans who were at a respectable level all left, that means the community first have to replenish itself before the current active spinners attain a respectable level to push forward. It's not really backtracking, just not moving. It's not like information was lost
Who is rising up to replace and innovate in pen spinning today? What will we do when information IS lost. Pen spinning [B]has [/B]backtracked to some extent, many of the old centers of information, the majority of historical pen spinning websites have closed, and no one has stepped forward to replace those who have left. What will YOU do to keep pen spinning moving forward? Or do you think as one spinner did in 2006I honestly think pen spinning has stopped going anywhere and will not ever continue further than it has. Since as we have seen the order of life of the pen spinning community ~New member - new member learns tricks - learns all the tricks - leaves the pen spinning scene. That's what most people do. I don't see anyways in which pen spinning can evolve more [B]All the possible types of tricks that could ever be possible have already been done[/B].
Only a year after these statements were made, pen spinning went through huge evolution, with the UCPSB Research Department, World Tournament, and amazing developments in terms of what we take for granted as pen spinning today. Where would we be, where would we go if not towards some goal for pen spinning. This doesn't just mean creativity in combos, inventing new tricks, or coming up with new concepts. It means being willing to contribute to making UPSB, and Pen Spinning better in some way. If we all put in even a fraction of the effort we use to practice our pen spinning, into developing it as an art, we could accomplish just about anything. There's a fog surrounding pen spinning these days, and we forget how much WE can do, and how AMAZING pen spinning really is. This isn't about how far we've come, but how far we still have to go! You should be proud of your pen spinning heritage and history, you should share the experience of pen spinning with others! It isn't just up to the Mods, or the Pros to keep pen spinning moving forward. It's up to [B]you[/B]. Half of the moderating staff isn't even active, almost all of the Research Department is completely inactive, and there is no PS Conclave (<-Popular pen spinning innovator circa 2006). There's only [B]you[/B].I feel that pen spinning needs to go somewhere because we've gotten this far and just stopped pushing it forward. I propose that it goes anywhere but this null plateau.
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Date: Wed, Mar 27 2013 21:47:30
:clap: good job I think that penspinning is flooded with new people (like me a while ago, like everyone a while ago) and some don't have the stamina to become innovators and just do exactly what everyone else does. Like me.
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Date: Wed, Mar 27 2013 21:59:46
I agree what you said, but in terms of improvement are we going? In what way should we be going? The way I see penspinning is a challenging way of art. Although is that everything I do is already done before. I think that is a shame, I try to create new stuff, but when I am about to release it (or even give it a try to film it) I see it's already done by someone else. It's not that I don't want to be original, It is that it is dahm hard to be. I don't think spinning with out feet is a option (maybe 1 or 2 tricks) but the main purpose of ps is already found out in 2006/7/8. What can we do now? Just make new videos with more bust, haitua's, pun news etc? Fell2fram is the definition of that it is possible to pull out new stuff. But that doens't mean we all have to follow him. I want to explore the ways in 2p2h and 2p1h, but while I do I notice I am not as original as I though I was. There are a lot of video's where older spinner pull out all the tricks where I just though I was the one created them.
I have to say that the elite spinners are a bit of dis-motivational.
I still keep this going, and I hope to one of the people that brings penspinning to a new era. Thanks for this thread Shoeman6, I feel inspired. -
Date: Wed, Mar 27 2013 22:16:31
A big factor stifling creativity is the emphasis on combos and battles. When you have to film solely for the purpose of a coherent 15-20 second combo, it forces your hand on what you can and cannot execute. I see the following: -A need for filler Let's face it, many parts of combos are glanced over as they have been entirely done before. However, there is the difficulty that a combo does not feel correct or full unless there is a certain flow to it. While filler is useful in this regard, it compounds with: -Difficult to execute new tricks Filler material may not be harmful in its own regard, but it puts a certain standard to what can and cannot be put in 'combo' context. A trick which can only be landed 1/30 times may be amazing and contribute to the community, but several of those put together cannot be reasonably pulled off in a combo. I think this means combined that stagnating in combo format slows the growth of the community overall
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Date: Wed, Mar 27 2013 22:17:06
Penspinning isn't really going anywhere, to be honest. While there has been a little growth every month of a few new spinners, very few of them stay or have anything to do with the community. If you look at the stats for this board, you will see that there are about 8k members I believe, but less than 1k are active. Out of those spinners that are "active," probably two-thirds of those spinners even do much, the rest just lurk or post rarely. Penspinning isn't going anywhere because no one wants to be an innovator, and while attempts were made, people would drop out and no one would be there to pick it up, or even want to, simply because they were lazy fucks. To progress forward, I feel like we need innovators. People that will take Pen Spinning and everything it is and wants to be to the next level. That doesn't necessarily mean new tricks, or more collabs/tournaments, or teams, but It means someone doing something that will promote penspinning. Sure, there are websites out there for penspinning, that practically no one visits. However I feel like to truly push Penspinning to its next level, we would need more than the attempt of a few people on a single board. I've ranted long enough, just my thoughts though.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 01:15:20
All the possible types of tricks that could ever be possible have already been done.
And everything is invented. PSing "doesnt evolve" mainly because 3 reasons: 1.- The active life of a pser is usually short. Someone with 5+ years of experience is really rare. If everyone here started to paint and then, we meet after 5 years, yeah, some new styles, but it will probably be all the same. Imagine a penspinner 20 years after he starts. 2.- Almost everyone who can spin knows this, the problem is that, if you want to get good, you have to spend tons of hours practicing, talking w/ people, etc. And after all that time what do you get? The love of a community and personal satisfaction. That is not a strong enough reason to keep this for most people. 3.- If you think that everything has been done, then you wont do anything new. Even if everything is invented, try to convince you that it isnt true. Maybe someday you get something trully new. Just my opinion. Maybe too optimist but meh, i prefer to see it this way. -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 01:16:17
Shoe you just put me in one of those moods where I feel I could wrestle a polarbear underwater! =) (or just nail down spreads)
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 01:37:52
I think that penspinning is like society, as new generations come, and old ones go, new ideas arise and new styles are created.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 04:25:27
I guess we haven't had one of these posts for a while... This kinda thread has been done before but it doesn't do anything. Before people would go "Yeah we gotta practice more and get more WT spinners" now it seems that most people are coming up with excuses and reasons for why things are the way they are now. If PS is to grow people have to be into it, and you can't control that. If you want to see growth the only thing you can do is to practice and be active in the community. Nice OP btw
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 07:02:34
Getting up to the level where you can genuinely help define penspinning now is much harder than in 2097, there is a lot more practose required and a lot tougher competition. It's ridiculously off putting. As for members, well, I guess you could go on a recruitment drive over several forums or somethinf, but penspinning is hard to get into and hard to stick to, eventually we ar going to die out sometime.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 07:50:51
I believe pen spinning is going all directions forward, just very slowly... I believe as time passes, PS progresses. Without time, PS can't progress, hence my conclusion. Pen spinning IS progressing... just... very slowly... And like eurocracy pointed out.. it will get harder and harder over time.. But if Pen spinning does not die out, it will keep progressing.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 09:05:50
I've said it before (maybe not on the forums) but, one of the biggest problem with pen spinning right now is that every trick is either an around, a sonic, a charge or a pass or a combination of the 4 (not that it would make much of a difference but this is why I think wipers should be a fundamental) and that's why pen spinning is stagnating. Everything is a variation of what's already there, and the only way to really be innovating would be to either do something completely new that wouldn't be one of those four (which may be impossible, if not extremely hard to do since one would have to really think outside the box) or make a variation that's so mind-blowing that it starts a new trend (again, if at all possible). I think that it's only a matter of time before something like that happens though. I think spinners like Freeman and Fel2fram, among others are going in the right direction. Freeman is constantly looking for new things to do in PS and as for Fel2fram, one entire combo of his doesn't involve tricks or hybrids or linkages, but rather, the start of one trick, interrupted by a completely different trick, which is interrupted by yet another trick and the pattern continues until he finishes his combo. While most spinners (if not all) are doing and tricks and hybrids to form linkages, so it's hard to imagine an entire combo interrupted by every other part of the same combo. As to whether or not it's a start for a new trend, I think it's only a start for something much bigger, but we'll see where it goes. Another problem with PS that's impossible to fix (if not damn near close to it) would be a concrete notation system. I know with the ungodly amount of modifiers like mirrored, inverse, reverse, moonwalk (if that's still even a concept) finger-less and releases, along with the use of finger slots, finger crosses, hybrids, and interrupted tricks (that's if something like what Fel2fram does becomes a trend), a concrete notation system is pretty much a dead concept, but if there could be one it would help a lot when it comes to breakdowns among other things. All in all I think pen pen spinning is still growing, slowly, but growing nonetheless. I think it's only a matter of time.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 11:39:28
I have thought for so long that other people will consider penspinning to be one kind of sports someday. Penspinning is still growing I am really sure. I admit that the number of spinners is a lot lesser than before.However, we still have a lot of spinners who devote to penspinning. Compared this hobby in the past , Penspinning is more attractive and beautiful IMO. One day , there will be someone who sees the value of it and may be we will have more and more sponsors than today. I have been a penspinner for almost 6 years , I know that there are a lot of penspinners better than me nowadays. I have stopped practicing it for long time and you all can see that my ability is still the same as the past years but I am still here to keep spinning. I dont really know why but I love it and cant quit. I am sure there are lots of people who really fall in love with penspinning like me who really see how worth penspinning is. and in the future it will be sponsored. It will be a sport. Dont know what i am saying , its sound like idiot lmao :P anyway , sorry for my bad english but I want to say what i feel. bye
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 11:50:59
supawit127 wrote: I have thought for so long that other people will consider penspinning to be one kind of sports someday. Penspinning is still growing I am really sure. I admit that the number of spinners is a lot lesser than before.However, we still have a lot of spinners who devote to penspinning. Compared this hobby in the past , Penspinning is more attractive and beautiful IMO. One day , there will be someone who sees the value of it and may be we will have more and more sponsors than today. I have been a penspinner for almost 6 years , I know that there are a lot of penspinners better than me nowadays. I have stopped practicing it for long time and you all can see that my ability is still the same as the past years but I am still here to keep spinning. I dont really know why but I love it and cant quit. I am sure there are lots of people who really fall in love with penspinning like me who really see how worth penspinning is. and in the future it will be sponsored. It will be a sport. Dont know what i am saying , its sound like idiot lmao :P anyway , sorry for my bad english but I want to say what i feel. bye
Well Said, Sir. :clap: -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 13:00:01
*this post is entirely entitled to my own personal opinion. Please don't flame me if you do not agree with it* Pen Spinning, in my opinion, is evolving in an amazing speed in term of technical difficulty as well as visual appeal. A WT combo in 2011 would be considered as an average World Class combo in 2013. Anti gravity stuffs were still fresh and rare in 2011, but now it's not even considered so difficult anymore. Beautiful styles/Snow-like style spinners start to pop up, most notably Peter ( TWPS ), Cloud, MHL ( PSH ), Noel ( JEB ),...... Basic tricks for newbies are now cont Palmspin - Flta, Haitua,...... This progress is very fast, and it seems that possibilities are endless. However, there is another side of progress that we should consider. Public recognition is an area that is currently neglected. Over the past year, I have only come to know of one or two Pen spinning video that made it to the media ( most notably the Microsoft Surface Pro Commercial, Jon M Chu is the best <3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37F6Ig1WLT4 ). With little public awareness, how can we make a big step further and pushed Pen Spinning to the next level? With little public awareness, how can me clear the stereotype that Pen Spinning is an Asian thing and only nerds practise it? Most spinners are from the age of 13 - 18, and this leads to lack of communication with the large media companies that can be a real asset to us. Stand up spinning techniques aren't refined, there is still too much risk in stage performing. These are pulling us back, not allowing us to perform to our best potential. Sadly, most people aren't willing to do it as outside of UPSB, outside of their Boards, they have their own lives to live and they consider Pen Spinning just as a hobby. After this lengthy post with, most probably, a lot of grammatical mistakes, I would like to point out that in order for us to push Pen Spinning to the next level, we should appeal to outsiders and not only within ourselves. Tons of CVs made, tons of Solos made, tons of competitions being carried out but none of them appeal to the public. Someone that is mature enough, have enough connections should make contracts with large media companies and promote us to the public, in order for us to really push ourselves forward as a community, and make Pen Spinning a legitimate sport/art form in the future. Thanks for reading :D *this post is entirely entitled to my own personal opinion. Please don't flame me if you do not agree with it*
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 14:25:10
supawit127 wrote: I have thought for so long that other people will consider penspinning to be one kind of sports someday. Penspinning is still growing I am really sure. I admit that the number of spinners is a lot lesser than before.However, we still have a lot of spinners who devote to penspinning. Compared this hobby in the past , Penspinning is more attractive and beautiful IMO. One day , there will be someone who sees the value of it and may be we will have more and more sponsors than today. I have been a penspinner for almost 6 years , I know that there are a lot of penspinners better than me nowadays. I have stopped practicing it for long time and you all can see that my ability is still the same as the past years but I am still here to keep spinning. I dont really know why but I love it and cant quit. I am sure there are lots of people who really fall in love with penspinning like me who really see how worth penspinning is. and in the future it will be sponsored. It will be a sport. Dont know what i am saying , its sound like idiot lmao :P anyway , sorry for my bad english but I want to say what i feel. bye
That would be a dream for all of us, I doubt that. Penspinning may look like something beatifull for us, but for other people looks like the same motion over and over again. If we compare penspinning with other manipulating arts, we see that in difference that penspinning is only be done with the hand. Take Yoyoing for example, it can be done on a larger scale and over the whole body. We are limited, and unless we change that idea, we don't get more attention that we have now, but would it still be penspinning if we used our whole body? I don't think so, that would make something like a juggling variation. -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 15:51:46
fang wrote: That would be a dream for all of us, I doubt that. Penspinning may look like something beatifull for us, but for other people looks like the same motion over and over again. If we compare penspinning with other manipulating arts, we see that in difference that penspinning is only be done with the hand. Take Yoyoing for example, it can be done on a larger scale and over the whole body. We are limited, and unless we change that idea, we don't get more attention that we have now, but would it still be penspinning if we used our whole body? I don't think so, that would make something like a juggling variation.
This is the kind of misinformation and regurgitation of old information I'm talking about. People don't understand intricate juggling patterns, yet they recognize it as juggling, moving pen spinning forward has nothing to do with MASS appeal. And believe it or not, pen spinning is beautiful to non pen spinners, even if they don't understand the intricacies of it. Pen spinning wouldn't have gotten as far as it has if it didn't have a base aesthetic appeal. How is pen spinning limited in any way? I would argue pen spinning is LESS limited than most other manipulations because of its youth and possibilities. Yes it is still pen spinning if you stand up, and yes it is more appealing if you don't stand there like a tree and stare at your hand. Pen spinning is more than doing the same tricks over and over again, it's creativity and at it's core an amazing form of object manipulation. People don't have to understand it to appreciate it, but [B]you[/B] do if you want them to. There really is [B]no[/B] reason why pen spinning shouldn't be just as "popular" as other forms of manipulation, and most of the reasons people give for why it is different than other forms of object manipulation, actually serve as arguments for why it [B]should[/B] be more widespread. This isn't even about pen spinning popularity, you could argue that pen spinning is more popular now than it has ever been, this has to deal with transcending what already exists and setting aside preconceptions of what pen spinning is, and working towards what it could be. More people than ever do thumb arounds, sonics, and neo sonics in their office, school, or homes, but they don't know what pen spinning is! It's like if millions of people were doing the classic three ball juggle and had no conception of juggling. I feel like it's the personal responsibility of the practitioner of this art to share it with people, if you want people to respect you or acknowledge you, give them a reason to. I think Awesome's comment is the most relevant so far.f PS is to grow people have to be into it, and you can't control that. If you want to see growth the only thing you can do is to practice and be active in the community.
If people simply aren't interested in contributing to pen spinning, nothing can be done. I just hope I can encourage some of you to actively do something new, or intentionally share pen spinning with others. Who cares if it's been "done before" or "not pen spinning" pen spinning evolves and changes, it grows! Look at past ideals of pen spinning, versus todays. Aerials weren't considered pen spinning by many for the longest time, and for many years you wouldn't catch a respectible pen spinner spinning anything longer than an MX. You don't even have to be a "pro" or amazing to change or contribute to the evolution of pen spinning, you just have to be willing. If you find yourself saying can't, won't or will not, stop and ask yourself [B]why not[/B]? -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 16:00:26
I agree with Walkaz. The only way to develope penspinning is to hit new target group, which is people older than 12-18. We are in stage where people from outside of our community know pen spinning around the world. They got familiar with it around 2006 - 2010. A lot of people came, a lot of interest, even if someone didn't want to learn it. They know it now, and they categorized it as: hobby, fun for kids, crazy stuff, asian nerds, fun you can laught at. Pen spinning is no longer unknown skill, what gave it advantage to bring in people. Now it's time to go further. We need to show the world that this is for everyone, even older people which can treat it seriously. Only serious people will take initiative, will develope it as an art, and be basement of community. Only mass media can do it. Mass media won't be interested if they can't earn on it. It will be very hard to change the stereotypes that are sticked to penspinning from its begginings.
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 16:10:57
Like said before, what disappoints me about PS is that no one gives a damn about what you are actually doing. Even if you do insane power tricks/aerial tricks/top spins etc, even if you're s777, supawit, f2f, peem, vic,... in the end [B]you're just spinning a pen.[/B] Your penspinning may be impressing for other penspinners and you are definitely having fun yourself but there aren't many people that appreciate what you are doing therefore lots of spinners don't care about contributing to PS. Sure we can make big collabs and great tuts and gatherings/events etc but I don't think that we can ever get PS to be a well recognized sport because its not that flashy and interesting. The majority of people that appreciate penspinning and actually start penspinning are young teenagers {that are mostly asian}. It's the sad truth about penspinning imo. T_T In technical terms I think that penspinning is definitely evolving and there are new spinners doing crazy stuff so early in there penspinning career that you couldnt even imagine it's possible. I believe that the technical aspects of penspinning will continue to grow for a long time but we will never get a huge amount of people to take up penspinning or even appreciate it like we do. [B](I hope I made my point. sorry for my horrible english)[/B]
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Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 16:20:38
eazi-penspinner wrote: Like said before, what disappoints me about PS is that no one gives a damn about what you are actually doing. Even if you do insane power tricks/aerial tricks/top spins etc, even if you're s777, supawit, f2f, peem, vic,... in the end [B]you're just spinning a pen.[/B] Your penspinning may be impressing for other penspinners and you are definitely having fun yourself but there aren't many people that appreciate what you are doing therefore lots of spinners don't care about contributing to PS.
There's a HUGE difference between snow preforming, and anyone else simply "spinning". People WANT to displace themselves into a subculture, to get a glimpse of it, but pen spinners tend to shelter themselves, and our most outspoken candidates have a tendency to misrepresent us. You say "you're just spinning a pen." but cmon... You're spinning a [B]FUCKING PEN[/B], it's amazing how it's even possible. Why do you think it receives such a dumbfounding response from most people? Why do you think when people see you pen spinning they fumble around with their own pen, trying to figure it out? They try to simplify it so that they can understand it, but that ISN'T what pen spinning is. It's more, and the more people understand that, the better off we will be. People won't care if you don't care, but trust me, people are always looking for something to care about, and all it takes is someone on the inside, willing to make that happen. -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 19:20:03
I agree with Shoeman, most people here are looking at pen spinning like it'll never be a sport or anything more than a hobby, and that it's just spinning a pen, but not many people here think about what it COULD be. Pen spinning has a very wide age group and I think that's a good thing since it shows that literally anyone can pick up a pen and spin, and I'm sure when Kam, David and Hideaki first started they had no idea that it would end up where it is today. They don't look at pen spinning and ask "where can we go from here?" they look at US and ask "Where are you going to take it?" Sure it might not be the biggest thing around, but what's stopping us from making it bigger than what it is? As Shoeman said, pen spinning is young, and there's a lot more we can do with it. I used to look at pen spinning like it was dying because I thought that we did pretty much everything we could with pen spinning, but after thinking that for just about as long as I've been spinning, and I've come to realize that it's got a long way to go before it even comes close to dying. Everyone is saying that the pen spinning community is getting smaller, but am I the only one that's noticed the 105 spinners in this years world tournament? Sure there might not be as many active members in previous years, but that's more spinners than we've had in a world tournament any other year, and I'm sure that number will only grow. I believe that EVERY aspect of pen spinning will grow, not just on a technical scale or as an art, but as a hobby and as a sport. Pen spinning will continue to grow as long as there is even just one person spinning a pen. Basically what I'm trying to say is that most pen spinners don't even know the worth of pen spinning, and I don't think it's hit it's peak yet either. Like supawit said, there will be a day where some will know it's true worth.
supawit127 wrote: I know that there are a lot of penspinners better than me nowadays.
PS I lol'd -
Date: Thu, Mar 28 2013 20:58:59
shoeman6 wrote: There's a HUGE difference between snow preforming, and anyone else simply "spinning". People WANT to displace themselves into a subculture, to get a glimpse of it, but pen spinners tend to shelter themselves, and our most outspoken candidates have a tendency to misrepresent us. You say "you're just spinning a pen." but cmon... You're spinning a [B]FUCKING PEN[/B], it's amazing how it's even possible. Why do you think it receives such a dumbfounding response from most people? Why do you think when people see you pen spinning they fumble around with their own pen, trying to figure it out? They try to simplify it so that they can understand it, but that ISN'T what pen spinning is. It's more, and the more people understand that, the better off we will be. People won't care if you don't care, but trust me, people are always looking for something to care about, and all it takes is someone on the inside, willing to make that happen.
Im not saying penspinning isn't a special hobby, it's amazing and interesting. Its a very unusual and appealing hobby (which is probably why most of us penspinners exist). Anybody that sees someone spinning a pen for the first time will be amazed and some of them may try to learn 1 or 2 tricks. But there aren't many people willing to continue penspinning and start spinning seriously like we do. They just say "Wow, cool he's spinning a pen" but they'll probably never even learn a TA. In my country there are no real penspinners (I mean ppl that can do at least 2-3 fundies), and almost all people haven't even heard of it. I searched it in google, found a few written tutorials and I started practicing. At first, my classmates would be amazed and ask me how I do it. But no one in my class, relatives, friends tried to learn penspinning like me (except for my cousin @AK-47). Some of them even thought it was annoying after a while. I dont know, maybe it's not that appealing to others like it is to us. :/ -
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 04:03:06
Pari wrote: I agree with Walkaz. The only way to develope penspinning is to hit new [B]target[/B] group, which is [B]people older than 12-18[/B]. We are in stage where people from outside of our community know pen spinning around the world. They got familiar with it around 2006 - 2010. A lot of people came, a lot of interest, even if someone didn't want to learn it. They know it now, and they categorized it as: hobby, fun for kids, crazy stuff, asian nerds, fun you can laught at. Pen spinning is no longer unknown skill, what gave it advantage to bring in people. Now it's time to go further. We need to show the world that this is for everyone, even older people which can treat it seriously. Only serious people will take initiative, will develope it as an art, and be basement of community. Only mass media can do it. Mass media won't be interested if they can't earn on it. It will be very hard to change the stereotypes that are sticked to penspinning from its begginings.
Really, guys? :trollface: -
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 05:58:50
@fang i disagree. From UPSB's wiki : "Pen Spinning is the artistic manipulation of a pen in an aesthetically pleasing fashion" . This shows that anything you do, as long as it concerns making a pen spins, is considered Pen Spinning. This gives Pen Spinning an endless possibilities. You can dance while spinning and it'll still be considered pen spinning. You can do Card flourish and Pen Spinning at the same time and it'll still be considered Pen Spinning. You can do Yoyo and Pen Spinning at the same time and it'll still be considered Pen Spinning ( Bonkura's String combo ). The problem is that there are too much ignorant people in the Pen Spinning scene that aren't willing to make a difference to the sport. Yesterday some random guy on a random PS-group commented on my just for fun dancing video, thinking it was serious and said "This isn't So You Think You Can Dance". This saddens me as if this mindset still exists, where is Pen Spinning going to go? No one wants to watch a nerd standing on stage looking at his hand spinning a pen. They want audience interactions, eye-candy factors, as well as variations. Being able to use your whole body while doing it gives it even more variety and even more appealing to the eye. With the mentality of " Pen Spinning should be on your desk, doing complicated tricks with crazy-ass slots, showing only your hand", i doubt we would go anywhere in the time being *that for duh fun vid is a crappy fs shit, but I'm dead serious about incorporate dancing and Pen Spinning"
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Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 10:31:50
Walkaz wrote: @fang i disagree. From UPSB's wiki : "Pen Spinning is the artistic manipulation of a pen in an aesthetically pleasing fashion" . This shows that anything you do, as long as it concerns making a pen spins, is considered Pen Spinning. This gives Pen Spinning an endless possibilities. You can dance while spinning and it'll still be considered pen spinning. You can do Card flourish and Pen Spinning at the same time and it'll still be considered Pen Spinning. You can do Yoyo and Pen Spinning at the same time and it'll still be considered Pen Spinning ( Bonkura's String combo ). The problem is that there are too much ignorant people in the Pen Spinning scene that aren't willing to make a difference to the sport. Yesterday some random guy on a random PS-group commented on my just for fun dancing video, thinking it was serious and said "This isn't So You Think You Can Dance". This saddens me as if this mindset still exists, where is Pen Spinning going to go? No one wants to watch a nerd standing on stage looking at his hand spinning a pen. They want audience interactions, eye-candy factors, as well as variations. Being able to use your whole body while doing it gives it even more variety and even more appealing to the eye. With the mentality of " Pen Spinning should be on your desk, doing complicated tricks with crazy-ass slots, showing only your hand", i doubt we would go anywhere in the time being *that for duh fun vid is a crappy fs shit, but I'm dead serious about incorporate dancing and Pen Spinning"
There is a difference between dancing with some spinning and spinning with some dancing. I agree that it looks cool and is very appealing for the audience, but most of the times, dancing takes a lot of the attention. I agree that we can use dancing for spinning, but does that mean everybody on the board needs to learn dancing now? It's not a good direction to go if you ask me. -
Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 11:14:04
@fang Everyone can follow any route of ps they want, in fact, having different groups of people exploring different kinds of spinning is better than focusing on one direction imo. It speeds up the process of reaching a higher level of spinning. However, in order to appeal to the mass, I think we should develop on some stage spinning. While we don't have foundation, why not adapt something that has already been there and mold it to our likings
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Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 15:33:42
fang wrote: There is a difference between dancing with some spinning and spinning with some dancing. I agree that it looks cool and is very appealing for the audience, but most of the times, dancing takes a lot of the attention. I agree that we can use dancing for spinning, but does that mean everybody on the board needs to learn dancing now? It's not a good direction to go if you ask me.
Fang, that is a straw-man argument, no one said everybody would need to learn dancing. Maybe the terminology is turning you off. Instead of "dance" lets say performance. I In order to put on an effective performance, you need to move, you need to acknowledge the audience, and there's usually music. You'll find this in just about anything, regardless of what it is, pen spinning or not. If that turns you off, then don't put on performances, its not for everyone. Id equate it to solo musician, if you preform a solo, statue still ,with no emotion, what you play can be beautiful, but your performance will still suck. Swaying and smiling and dancing around has nothing to do with making music, but it makes the performance more entertaining. -
Date: Thu, Apr 4 2013 14:19:45
I created a similar thread a while ago. http://forum.upsb.info/showthread.php?t=5409&highlight=future+pen+spinning
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Date: Thu, Apr 4 2013 22:20:34
Pen spinning can evolve from more than just the hands. It can be implemented with anything to make it much more impressive. I, for one, pen spun with my leg behind my head for a portion of my act during a talent show. It made it that much more awesome. [video=youtube;d_uWFVNmUAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_uWFVNmUAs[/video] This is where pen spinning should go. Creativity. I guess this isn't that creative since I just have my legs behind my head, but something with more body motion would be great. Btw this is an older video from my earlier pen spinning days. Metallic Commsa lolz
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Date: Fri, Apr 5 2013 02:15:33
All the possible types of tricks that could ever be possible have already been done.
:hah:This reminds me of some retard that once said: Everything that is invented has already been invented....