UPSB v4
Collaboration Videos / TOP 13 Greatest Penspinning combos of all time
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Date: Thu, Mar 21 2013 22:02:03
[video=youtube;-Pm61T7iGVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pm61T7iGVo&feature=youtu.be[/video]
I tried to make a top 13 of the best combos of all time, this ranking doesn't use the overall level of each spinner as a criteria, that's why some great spinners aren't in the video. It was kinda hard to judge the combos from 2007 and 2008, I tried to classify the combos by how impressed people were when they saw the combo and how "dominating" the combos were at the time it first came out, I compared them with the overall level of the other combos back then. However Fel2fram doesn't figure in the video because he still has so much to show us so it would be dumb to have put him in the video since he's still gonna improve in the few years coming. I'm pretty he's gonna make a combo that is gonna be the best ever sooner or later. This is not a top 13 of the best spinners of all time btw (even though it looks like it could be) If you don't agree with that ranking, please don't go crazy and explain why you disagree, we can discuss about that :3 Anyway I had fun making it :)
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 00:00:30
even though i don't like power that much. but i gotta say spinnerpeem's combo was one of the best. it literally change the penspinning world.
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 00:00:48
imo you should put the names in the description of the video or at the bottom of the combos :D
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 01:19:05
almost all the combos were very fast paced
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 01:30:26
The video holds what the title promises. gg
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 02:26:23
All are amazing combos indeed :O I wasn't here 2010 so all those surprised me :O peem was epic O_O Agreed! :D
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 02:50:17
They show what spinning is about. who they are and why they do this is shown through every trick, linkage and combo, beautiful.
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 03:20:05
Walkaz wrote: imo you should put the names in the description of the video or at the bottom of the combos :D
i disagree with that. even half a second of looking away from the combo will make you miss an impressive link. I think spinner names should be done like this more in ps videos. -
Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 06:02:43
the choice of the songs was amazing. but i didnt really like the background music, except when it was peem's, supawit's and seven's. but still nice job. :D
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 07:37:11
SA1 wrote: almost all the combos were very fast paced
S777? -
Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 07:39:18
eurocracy wrote: S777?
Well he DID say "almost".. :) And fast paced doesn't need to be speed of tricks, too :D That abstract feeling.. excitement? -
Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 08:17:51
Great choice Ivabra, I liked the video. I remember most of the combo's. When I was new, I first watched the whole ps-historie. ^_^
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Date: Sat, Mar 23 2013 21:20:13
eurocracy wrote: S777?
as I said ALMOST all combos..., gosh -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 10:16:29
Yo yo what @Ivabra? You put in KTH's WT 07 combo, but not Eriror's combo, which is even better! I also might have dropped out some of the lesser good combos in your video and added in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AULv7peWSDM - Performed by Michael. I wonder how many remember him? :hmm: Michael and Patte... Anyways... Or perhaps just the combo from 1:37 from this, which sums up a lot of combos which I think should be in your video. I also think that this would be a welcome addition to your video. Hey in fact, you can make it a top 20 and get all of these in!
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Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 13:26:43
Mats wrote: Yo yo what @Ivabra? You put in KTH's WT 07 combo, but not Eriror's combo, which is even better! I also might have dropped out some of the lesser good combos in your video and added in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AULv7peWSDM - Performed by Michael. I wonder how many remember him? :hmm: Michael and Patte... Anyways... Or perhaps just the combo from 1:37 from this, which sums up a lot of combos which I think should be in your video. I also think that this would be a welcome addition to your video. Hey in fact, you can make it a top 20 and get all of these in!
Okay I understand your opinion. In fact I only put one combo per spinner, otherwise Fel2fram would have been ranked all the positions from 1 top 13 (sun) Kam's combos are too old to be described as "dominating". Back then there were not many penspinners, of course Kam was the greatest back then but there were no possible comparison. For all the combos before 2007 I chose Bonkura as the one that dominated that period, with his combo for the WT R4. None of Eriror's combos are in because I did not find any particular combo that was better than his others, all his combos from 2007 till now are Awesome-pretty good-outstanding" but none of them was considered as the best combo ever. About KTH's combo you can't judge it with the vision of penspinning you have right now cause it used to be completely different. Of course if you judge with the current criterias Eriror was the best in 2007. -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 14:15:59
Ivabra wrote: Okay I understand your opinion. In fact I only put one combo per spinner, otherwise Fel2fram would have been ranked all the positions from 1 top 13 (sun) Kam's combos are too old to be described as "dominating". Back then there were not many penspinners, of course Kam was the greatest back then but there were no possible comparison.
Actually, there were people better than Kam. e.g. nhkAbout KTH's combo you can't judge it with the vision of penspinning you have right now cause it used to be completely different. Of course if you judge with the current criteria, Eriror was the best in 2007.
Even by the standards at the time, most people judged Eriror's combo to be better. The judging was a little bit suspect and fairly widely criticized. -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 18:57:09
Ivabra;253152]Okay I understand your opinion. In fact I only put one combo per spinner, otherwise Fel2fram would have been ranked all the positions from 1 top 13 (sun)[/QUOTE] Fel2Fram's combos are not all the best combos ever made in penspinning you know... He hasn't been crowned WT victor yet! Just like how S777s wouldn't be either, even in 2011! [QUOTE=Ivabra;253152]Back then there were not many penspinners, of course Kam was the greatest back then but there were no possible comparison.[/QUOTE] For purely being the first to create some new combos, Kam's combos would probably been seen as the greatest pre-2006. Gotta give him ingenuity points there. NHK vs Kam is tricky and you can see them both here: Kam and NHK have entirely different trick diversities back in those times. Kam has better style and execution, but NHK has slightly more difficulty. Also note Zombo on tier with Kam and NHK as the 3 best spinners in the collab. [QUOTE=Ivabra;253152]For all the combos before 2007 I chose Bonkura as the one that dominated that period, with his combo for the WT R4. [/QUOTE] I dunno, I didn't think bonkura's WT R4 was really as impressive as some other combos he did, for example the Japen 2nd combo. I always thought it was one of his weaker combos. [QUOTE=Mats wrote: Even by the standards at the time, most people judged Eriror's combo to be better. The judging was a little bit suspect and fairly widely criticized.
I don't really think so, the combos were rather close, KTH has way better exe and control for example. I don't think it was anywhere near a clear winner back then, on top of which back then they would consider the fact that KTH was using an RSVP MX, while eriror was using the easier to spin MSXAs, which would affect some judge's decisions on the difficulty in the battle. -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 19:23:30
eurocracy wrote: Fel2Fram's combos are not all the best combos ever made in penspinning you know... He hasn't been crowned WT victor yet! Just like how S777s wouldn't be either, even in 2011!
Yeah but He was the best in 2012, he's the best in 2013 and I don't see any spinner right now that could be better than him in a fiew months ^^ So every combo he makes should be considered as better than all the other spinners' level. And s777 should have lost in WT11 R2 lol, plus Supawit was better than s777, he lost because the judges sucked and Kin was overrated (even though he was great, Supawit was and is still better). -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 19:39:08
Ivabra wrote: Yeah but He was the best in 2012, he's the best in 2013 and I don't see any spinner right now that could be better than him in a fiew months ^^ So every combo he makes should be considered as better than all the other spinners' level. And s777 should have lost in WT11 R2 lol, plus Supawit was better than s777, he lost because the judges sucked and Kin was overrated (even though he was great, Supawit was and is still better).
Him being the best in 2012 can be disputed, there were a few he didn't face that are definitely not a sure win for him, such as Supawit127, please bear in mind the best spinner he faced was i.suk, who is a brilliant spinner but we do have people higher than him, such as VicGotGame, supawit127, peem and eriror who were the masters of the last generation. Eriror did get knocked out by i.suk, but the whole match was bullshit pitting them against eachother so early on, they were certainly not prepared to go against such high level opponents so early. Honestly a lot of his opponents in WC12 were really not up to big spinner level. Also we have a13x, who is going to have the difficulty advantage in this tournament at the very least tricks wise all the way through, fel2fram has more difficult links than a13x but a13x has more difficult tricks. The place fel really wins is creativity and originality, but we should see spinners adapting to meet this in the tournament, I wouldn't be surprised if i.suk or a13x after their battle pull some insane as shit tricks out of their asses after they finish their battles. The more judges see of Fel2Fram the more critical and analytical they're going to get, he may get marked down in presentation for camera angle obscuring what he's doing (REALLY ANNOYING) and they'll see though his style which helps make things look more mindblowing than they would be if they were performed with say, TBG's style. He's one of the best, but he's not THE best. Kin and S777 were probably judged based on their mod via the part of the rulebook that says you can forgo the judging criteria and just say who the winner is with a short explanation. Would explain a LOT. -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 20:42:48
I'm sorry to break UPSB's dream but VicGotGame is goddam overrated, it's not even possible to think about him being maybe as good as F2F in 2012 ... People in UPSB always consider him as a god or any such thing, it's because he used to be one of the first great spinners who had a worldwide level such as Eriror in UPSB (and he has never been better than Eriror btw), he was good but not among the greatest, i'm sorry. Anyway that's not the point of my answer Peem in 2012 ? You serious ? Peem in 2012 = 2 years without making ANY combo ^^ How about no. Okay Supawit was the only one who could have beat him in the world cup in a technical theme. But overall F2F was better (sun) Eriror as good as F2F? I'm sorry but that's just overrating too. No doubt that Eriror was maybe the best spinner in 2007, maybe in 2008 too, still in the top 10 in 2009 and 2010, but his overall level hasn't stopped decreasing as the years went by (no offence here, Eriror has always been a great spinner but clearly less dominating in the last two years). He wasn't as good as F2F (nobody was) in 2012, that's just a fact that everybody has to accept. You really think A13x can beat F2F by doing some shitty links like sonic > demon sonic > pass > twisted sonic which last 5 seconds ? He was the best and he's the best, period ^^ He could have lost in a themed battle, I think Minwoo could have beat him in an artistic video too, without cheating though .. haha :p I agree with your last sentence btw :)
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Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 22:23:53
Ivabra wrote: I'm sorry to break UPSB's dream but VicGotGame is goddam overrated, it's not even possible to think about him being maybe as good as F2F in 2012 ... People in UPSB always consider him as a god or any such thing, it's because he used to be one of the first great spinners who had a worldwide level such as Eriror in UPSB (and he has never been better than Eriror btw), he was good but not among the greatest, i'm sorry. Anyway that's not the point of my answer Peem in 2012 ? You serious ? Peem in 2012 = 2 years without making ANY combo ^^ How about no. Okay Supawit was the only one who could have beat him in the world cup in a technical theme. But overall F2F was better (sun) Eriror as good as F2F? I'm sorry but that's just overrating too. No doubt that Eriror was maybe the best spinner in 2007, maybe in 2008 too, still in the top 10 in 2009 and 2010, but his overall level hasn't stopped decreasing as the years went by (no offence here, Eriror has always been a great spinner but clearly less dominating in the last two years). He wasn't as good as F2F (nobody was) in 2012, that's just a fact that everybody has to accept. You really think A13x can beat F2F by doing some shitty links like sonic > demon sonic > pass > twisted sonic which last 5 seconds ? He was the best and he's the best, period ^^ He could have lost in a themed battle, I think Minwoo could have beat him in an artistic video too, without cheating though .. haha :p I agree with your last sentence btw :)
Vicgotgame was an extremely well balanced spinner, even eriror said that when supwait was due to beat him it was because he is like VicGotGame, who balanced out very appealing linkages and a couplw new techniques with harder links and power, so he scored high in many criteria. He gets a lot of hype but he does live up well to it, his combos are very clear and nice to watch. And he beat eriror in UPSBT and I think the WT11 too? Ironically I think F2F filling things with creativity is over time going to mesh with vics blanace to create a truly balanced pen spinner type, like when balance was amazing in the WC2008 with kuzu. If peem ever comes back we're fucked, peem is ridiculous. Supawit could still be a match for him today, eriror is lacking in originality and hard tricks, which is a real pity as I think he still is hiding his ability to do exceptional 2p2h. a13x counts because his links between hard tricks count as links, for example spiderspin -> trianglepas 234 . -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 22:24:24
Ivabra wrote: I'm sorry to break UPSB's dream but VicGotGame is goddam overrated, it's not even possible to think about him being maybe as good as F2F in 2012 ... People in UPSB always consider him as a god or any such thing, it's because he used to be one of the first great spinners who had a worldwide level such as Eriror in UPSB (and he has never been better than Eriror btw), he was good but not among the greatest, i'm sorry. Anyway that's not the point of my answer Peem in 2012 ? You serious ? Peem in 2012 = 2 years without making ANY combo ^^ How about no. Okay Supawit was the only one who could have beat him in the world cup in a technical theme. But overall F2F was better (sun) Eriror as good as F2F? I'm sorry but that's just overrating too. No doubt that Eriror was maybe the best spinner in 2007, maybe in 2008 too, still in the top 10 in 2009 and 2010, but his overall level hasn't stopped decreasing as the years went by (no offence here, Eriror has always been a great spinner but clearly less dominating in the last two years). He wasn't as good as F2F (nobody was) in 2012, that's just a fact that everybody has to accept. You really think A13x can beat F2F by doing some shitty links like sonic > demon sonic > pass > twisted sonic which last 5 seconds ? He was the best and he's the best, period ^^ He could have lost in a themed battle, I think Minwoo could have beat him in an artistic video too, without cheating though .. haha :p I agree with your last sentence btw :)
Vicgotgame was an extremely well balanced spinner, even eriror said that when supwait was due to beat him it was because he is like VicGotGame, who balanced out very appealing linkages and a couplw new techniques with harder links and power, so he scored high in many criteria. He gets a lot of hype but he does live up well to it, his combos are very clear and nice to watch. And he beat eriror in UPSBT and I think the WT11 too? Ironically I think F2F filling things with creativity is over time going to mesh with vics blanace to create a truly balanced pen spinner type, like when balance was amazing in the WC2008 with kuzu. If peem ever comes back we're fucked, peem is ridiculous. Supawit could still be a match for him today, eriror is lacking in originality and hard tricks, which is a real pity as I think he still is hiding his ability to do exceptional 2p2h. a13x counts because his links between hard tricks count as links, for example spiderspin -> trianglepas 234 . -
Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 01:37:31
hm expected Eriror, bonito, kuzu, minwoo, maybe even acid_dna to make an appearance, still good video tho
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Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 09:41:36
So your choice of spinners and combos in the top thirteen are: 1) Spinnerpeem 2) Taeryong* 3) Seven (One of my favorites) 4) KTH* 5) Bonkura* 6) s777 7) Mesi* 8) Supawit 9) Ayatori (I <3 this combo) 10) Kin 11) Riason 12) Five@fox 13) Rex [INDENT]I like a lot of your choices Ivabra, but I did disagree with a few of the combos you chose to put in. All of the stared combos I didn't think were particularly moving. That is not to say they were not difficult and well performed combos, I just don't think they made a big enough impact to be in the top 13. Also, no offense to you Bonkura fans, but while he was an amazing spinner for his time, he is not in the top 20 today.[/INDENT] [INDENT]There are just a few spinners that I think may have also earned to be in your list. What about the technical genius of Fratleym or the two handed genius of Ponkotu or Minwoo(very surprised he wasn't included) or incredible creativity of Pyralux or beautiful fluidity of eban and why not even a single strong wiper spinner like Ippei (examples below)?? This is just my opinion though, and I do think your choices are all excellent examples of Pen Spinning.[/INDENT] [SPOILER="Examples of Fratleym, Ponkotu, Minwoo, Pyralux, Eban and Ippei"](Fratleym) (Ponkotu) (Minwoo) (Pyralux) (Eban) (Ippei)[/SPOILER]
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Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 10:22:27
OMG
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Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 04:56:57
Ivabra wrote: I'm sorry to break UPSB's dream but VicGotGame is goddam overrated, it's not even possible to think about him being maybe as good as F2F in 2012 ... People in UPSB always consider him as a god or any such thing, it's because he used to be one of the first great spinners who had a worldwide level such as Eriror in UPSB (and he has never been better than Eriror btw), he was good but not among the greatest, i'm sorry. Anyway that's not the point of my answer
are you shitting me right now am i reading this correctly, you dont think hes better then eriror? are you high? he beat eriror multiple times, hes a legend, he's started a whole new level of pen spinning, sure people ride his dick, but who doesn't dick ride the greatest? other people, other boards can see he's amazing at what he did, I am not just saying that because hes a really good friend, im saying it because hes a great well rounded spinner, if you don't think hes on the level of the greatest, your just a blind, ignorant being, that obviously doesn't know who is good and who isn't. -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 08:18:54
^i lol'd
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Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 09:17:52
AoD1 wrote: are you shitting me right now am i reading this correctly, you dont think hes better then eriror? are you high? he beat eriror multiple times, hes a legend, he's started a whole new level of pen spinning, sure people ride his dick, but who doesn't dick ride the greatest? other people, other boards can see he's amazing at what he did, I am not just saying that because hes a really good friend, im saying it because hes a great well rounded spinner, if you don't think hes on the level of the greatest, your just a blind, ignorant being, that obviously doesn't know who is good and who isn't.
Okay if you're trolling you're a pure genius. If you're not you just suck at penspinning (sun) (i'm kidding but that's kinda the way I think) =>Sadistic : Those combos you picked don't deserve to figure in the video. Minwoo's combo was overshadowed by Fe2fram skills in 2012, it wasn't dominating even though his combo was great. Fratleym's combos 2009 all sucked compared to what he accomplished in 2007 Pyralux is just overrated. Ponkotu's 2p2h wasn't that awesome at this time, Baimai was clearly better than him at 2p2h. This combo is great but not in a top 13. Again I have to tell you that you didn't understand the criterias of being in that video, it's not about the overall level, it's about making a great combo. None of the combos you've just shown me are good enough to be in, especially those combos from the world cup. -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 09:19:14
i.suk wrote: ^i lol'd
same here -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 09:23:28
peem = fundies + power whut and as for Vic he is a great spinner, but not as great as how everyone makes him seems. His linkages are rather a little simple ( I mean darkblackcat from VPC could copy Vic's linkages when he was 4 months plz ). Nevertheless he was a great spinner that inspires many and about peem, a13x having a chance on beating f2f, i mean everyone agrees that linkage + good tricks + creativity > fundies + power. I mean if you look at Peem's combo, they contain great tricks but too much fillers. And A13X, not to take any old example but just right from his r3 combo, sonic spam + 3 lever tricks + dual pass which van ( or vaan, not sure of spelling ) did at around last year, and sutomo did dual pass 13 and pd dual pass 12( iirc, couldnt remember which slot for pd dual pass exactly)on the same round. I mean come on, A13x and Peem srsly?
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Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 09:24:39
Walkaz wrote: peem = fundies + power whut and as for Vic he is a great spinner, but not as great as how everyone makes him seems. His linkages are rather a little simple ( I mean darkblackcat from VPC could copy Vic's linkages when he was 4 months plz ). Nevertheless he was a great spinner that inspires many and about peem, a13x having a chance on beating f2f, i mean everyone agrees that linkage + good tricks + creativity > fundies + power. I mean if you look at Peem's combo, they contain great tricks but too much fillers. And A13X, not to take any old example but just right from his r3 combo, sonic spam + 3 lever tricks + dual pass which van ( or vaan, not sure of spelling ) did at around last year, and sutomo did dual pass 13 and pd dual pass 12( iirc, couldnt remember which slot for pd dual pass exactly). I mean come on, A13x and Peem srsly?
You're my hero, you've just explained exactly what I didn't want to say :D -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 09:28:32
Ivabra wrote: you've just explained exactly what I didn't want to say :D
Lolwhut -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 10:07:21
Ivabra wrote: I'm sorry to break UPSB's dream but VicGotGame is goddam overrated, it's not even possible to think about him being maybe as good as F2F in 2012 ... People in UPSB always consider him as a god or any such thing, it's because he used to be one of the first great spinners who had a worldwide level such as Eriror in UPSB (and he has never been better than Eriror btw), he was good but not among the greatest, i'm sorry. Anyway that's not the point of my answer Peem in 2012 ? You serious ? Peem in 2012 = 2 years without making ANY combo ^^ How about no. Okay Supawit was the only one who could have beat him in the world cup in a technical theme. But overall F2F was better (sun) Eriror as good as F2F? I'm sorry but that's just overrating too. No doubt that Eriror was maybe the best spinner in 2007, maybe in 2008 too, still in the top 10 in 2009 and 2010, but his overall level hasn't stopped decreasing as the years went by (no offence here, Eriror has always been a great spinner but clearly less dominating in the last two years). He wasn't as good as F2F (nobody was) in 2012, that's just a fact that everybody has to accept. You really think A13x can beat F2F by doing some shitty links like sonic > demon sonic > pass > twisted sonic which last 5 seconds ? He was the best and he's the best, period ^^ He could have lost in a themed battle, I think Minwoo could have beat him in an artistic video too, without cheating though .. haha :p I agree with your last sentence btw :)
I agree with some things you've said but not all. While it is true VicGotGame is really overrated, I don't think he's as overrated as you think. He's clearly not as good as F2f and a lot of his recent combos (in my opinion) aren't nearly as good as his combos prior to 2012 and at that time he was better than Eriror, and even though he was better than Eriror (at the time), he was not among the greatest, which (I think) adds to his overrating, so even though he's good I just don't think he's nearly as good as most people say he is so it seems his overrating is without reason. As for the skill level of most of the spinners mentioned I think it's because that standards have changed drastically over the past few years but (again this is only my opinion) most old-school world-class spinners haven't really increased as much as the standards have. I agree with you as far as F2F being the best, Peem's prime was in 2009 - 2010 and his skill back then wasn't as good as the current F2F. Supawit MIGHT (not saying it's a good chance but it is a pretty decent one) be able to beat him in a technical theme but we won't know until it happens. (this is mostly just my opinion so I don't know how many people will actually agree with me) but A13x's best point is consistency, but other than that he's really lacking so he's not nearly as good as F2F considering he lacks quite a lot, in my opinion. And as for Minwoo beating him in an artistic battle, I'll say the same thing I did about supawit, while he might have a chance, but we know know until it happens. And even though Eriror was great in the years between 2008 - 2010 but it's not his skill that's decreasing, it's the standards that have increased which is why it looks like he's gotten worse, when really he's stayed about the same since those years. I think F2F is amazing, overrated about the same as Eriror and VicGotGame, but amazing nonetheless. I think it's because nobody really knows just how complex his combos really are since not many people can tell what he's actually doing, which adds to his overrating, but he is almost just as amazing, so the overrating isn't without reason like other overrated spinners. So with all that bs said I, for the most part, agree with your top 13 greatest spinners. PS. hopefully this is somewhat easy to understand, I'm not the best at grammar so sorry if it seems really cluttered.... That is all. -
Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 11:32:44
I completely agree with you :) I don't know why you quoted my post since you kinda said the same things that I said, you should have quoted Eurocracy's post (sun)
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Date: Tue, Mar 26 2013 11:45:30
yeah I probably should have now that I look back in hindsight.
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Date: Sat, Mar 30 2013 00:36:40
Ivabra;253452] Again I have to tell you that you didn't understand the criterias of being in that video, it's not about the overall level, it's about making a great combo.[/QUOTE] If your criteria for being in the video was a great combo for that time period, it was very silly to include this in your first post: [QUOTE=Ivabra] This is not a top 13 of the best spinners of all time btw (even though it looks like it could be) [/QUOTE] It just seems like you're looking to pick a fight honestly. [QUOTE=Ivabra wrote: None of the combos you've just shown me are good enough to be in, especially those combos from the world cup.
Well that is your opinion. Fortunately pen spinning is an art and individuals can choose for themselves which combos are the "best". p.s. I was posting examples of the spinners, not their very best combos. I'm sure it took a lot of effort for you to narrow your choice down that much, I was just being lazy and posted the first videos I saw of them.