UPSB v4
General Discussion / World Tournament 2013 - Round 3 - Videos OUT!
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 17:01:29
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 18:12:32
omg ax13's combo was epic
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 19:31:14
Predictions (bold = win): Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud[/B] [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] sutomo vs. [B]Kay[/B]
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 20:43:26
That was a pretty solid round
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 20:45:50
I'm a huge supporter of i.suk, but I think a13x beat him. The combo was too insane.
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 21:34:39
Ahhhhhh!! All these battles are way too close! My god, what a round. My predictions: [B]Ivabra[/B] vs. Cloud I'm a big Ivabra fan and I think that this combo is enough to get through. Gibki vs. [B]Thebloodgod[/B] Not a big fan of either of these guys but I think tbg was better out of the two. [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk I love i.suk a lot but I think this round he got outdone. a13x was smooth with cool links, nice tricks and high difficulty. [B]Mind[/B] vs. LeftFinger Kinda similar combos. Wipers left right and center. I think mind was smoother and had better style but I hate his camera. LeftFinger had a harder combo but less style and smoothness. Could go either way. Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] Nooooooo!!!! Dammit. Two of my all time favorites fuuuck! I think this is the closest battle of the round, both seriously nice combos but damn... I didn't like xounds finisher. Both super good combos, could go either way but I'm going to give the win to Baaron. [B]ctionist[/B] vs. gollumsk8 I think ction could have done a bit better in terms of trick difficulty but this is by far the smoothest i have ever seen him spinning so props to him for that. gollumsk8 performed well but I have never been a fan of his style. x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] Meh. fel2fram is too pro. [B]sutomo[/B] vs. Kay Cool and interesting spinning + a qt jumper. What more could I ask for? +1 Sutomo The only battle I'm certain about it x1213 and Fel2fram.
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 22:15:37
Oooh this going to be hard, really hard to predict. Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud [/B] Personally I think Ivabra would probably win but I am really loving Clouds style.` [SIZE="5"]I DEMAND A CLOUD VS SNOW BATTLE RIGHT NOW![/SIZE] [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod Loved Gibki`s combo, so unique, it`s like a breath of fresh air. TBG`s ocmbo was good but it needed more practice and the finisher :/ [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk This one was hard. I liked i.suk's combo but it felt like some parts of it was lagging and wasn't as smooth as compared to other parts of the combos. (or it was my comp lagging) For a13x's video, dont like the mod (sorry) and the angle as much as his previous videos. Overall, I think a13x's video is slightly better. mind vs. [B]Leftfinger[/B] I really liked min's combo but personally I think infinity combos are getting a bit overdone. It's difficult yes but it doesn't surprises me. Leftfinger's combo was similar in some aspects and it also had more diversity. I especially loved his change in speed through out the combo especially the end. It fits really well. Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] Really interesting battle. Not going to say much about this but Xound you impressed me a lot, I think you could have won but the finisher might cost you. ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] Ctionist's combo was really nice and the linkages before the finisher was pretty awesome. Overall was great but it felt too "jumpy". Guys, gollumsk8 is back. This combo was hella amazing. That pinky back harmonic was really well done. So smooth as always. Personally, the beginning lacked a bit but let's see how the judges say and also, I personally believe he spent too much time doing the continuous arounds. x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] x1213 video was good but it could have been much better. For stylistic reasons he sacrificed things. I think he spent too much time on "decorating tricks" and this can potentially cost him the match. As for F2F, nothing needs to be said here. [B]sutomo[/B] vs. Kay This battle is probably my favorite one of this round. Really contrasting styles. Sutomo's combo was insane, the ending felt like all the tension of the insanity builds up and suddenly gets released. It was an awesome feeling watching the combo. The linkages are superb. I love kay's style and that is why this is the most difficult choice for me. Tbh, I think this combo was lackluster compared to his previous combo's that I have seen. I really wanted him to integrate his left hand more, it would have made his combo more difficult, appealing and overall better. Great linkages but I think it wasn't enough to win this match. Sorry Kay, but you will always be one of my favorite spinners Kay vs Minwoo anyone? :P
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 22:23:55
I found A13x's combo extremely easy to masturbate to.
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Date: Sun, Mar 17 2013 22:25:06
best combo this round goes to a13x. D; he actually made me watch his combo again and again. The cross pass was really well done. He mastered and beat me to it unfortunantly. haha oh..and at this rate. theres a very high chance of another FPSB champion. All fpsb semi finals anyone?
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 00:53:36
@Raos Your opinions are wrong. Please refrain from posting in the future. LPSA Judging SENT Judged and compiled by 4 EXPERTS who know their shit ~ Mr. Complain, Japonaise-san, Dr. :3 and Captain Grateful (ps sutomo vs. Kay would have had a different winner if it wasn't for this stupid system)
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 00:59:18
taichi1082 wrote: LPSA Judging SENT Judged and compiled by 4 EXPERTS who know their shit ~ Mr. Complain, Japonaise-san, Dr. :3 and Captain Grateful (ps sutomo vs. Kay would have had a different winner if it wasn't for this stupid system)
Fel2Fram's Combo looks like crap. -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 01:04:58
i'm actually disappointed in i.suk's combo. his round 2 video was really great and i was looking forward to a lot more this round, but he used advanced spiderspin 4 times and his around segments had like a million direction changes and simple 1.0-rotation harmonic patterns. he can do so much better. that being said, this was an amazing round, although gollumsk8 and ctionist were both a bit disappointing as well. loved ivabra's combo, and a13x's was incredible. however, i.suk is right, the concept of dual pass has been used before, although it's pretty much been more like .5 spread cont. and a13x executed it way better and his is far more difficult. it's probably one of the most impressive technical tricks ever performed. also, kay is a legend. that's all i have to say.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 01:10:57
Raos wrote: ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] Ctionist's combo was really nice and the linkages before the finisher was pretty awesome. Overall was great but it felt too "jumpy". Guys, gollumsk8 is back. This combo was hella amazing. That pinky back harmonic was really well done. So smooth as always. Personally, the beginning lacked a bit but let's see how the judges say and also, I personally believe he spent too much time doing the continuous arounds.
ok what did u even watch ctionist's combo -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 01:22:59
[QUOTE=taichi1082;252160]@Lekunga Yeah I watched ctionist's video and I agree his combo is amazing but I am biased towards gollumsk8 because he's one of my favorite pen spinners when I first started.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 01:29:58
Raos wrote: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no one's opinion is wrong. [...]I am biased towards gollumsk8 because [...]
Yours is, obviously. -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 01:32:11
[B]Ivabra[/B] vs. Cloud [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk mind vs [B]Leftfinger[/B] Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] [B]sutomo[/B] vs. Kay ^ predictions are based on what I think the judges will vote. Not personal opinion.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 03:33:18
Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud[/B] Gibki vs. [B]Thebloodgod[/B] a13x vs. [B][COLOR="red"]i[/COLOR].suk[/B] mind vs [B]Leftfinger[/B] Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] kay vs. [B]sutomo[/B]
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 03:42:03
All videos download https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kmij4d1yb4in7rq/2991dP9Dlx?lst
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 04:39:15
Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud[/B] Gibki vs. [B]Thebloodgod[/B] a13x vs.[B] i.suk[/B] mind vs [B]Leftfinger[/B] [B]Xound [/B]vs. Baaron ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] [B]x1213 [/B]vs. fel2fram kay vs.[B] sutomo[/B]
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 05:12:35
big619 wrote: Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud[/B] Gibki vs. [B]Thebloodgod[/B] a13x vs.[B] i.suk[/B] mind vs [B]Leftfinger[/B] [B]Xound [/B]vs. Baaron ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] [B]x1213 [/B]vs. fel2fram kay vs.[B] sutomo[/B]
my prediction [B]Ivabra[/B] vs. Cloud [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk [B]mind[/B] vs Leftfinger Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] [B]ctionist[/B] vs. gollumsk8 x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] [B]kay[/B] vs. sutomo -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 05:22:14
EaglE wrote: my prediction [B]Ivabra[/B] vs. Cloud [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk [B]mind[/B] vs Leftfinger Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] [B]ctionist[/B] vs. gollumsk8 x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] [B]kay[/B] vs. sutomo
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 10:46:55
As the thread name says, post your guesses here =P We will start from Round 3 since its the one going on lol My guesses :- (Red = Winner) [COLOR="red"]Ivabra[/COLOR] v.s. Cloud Gibki v.s. thebloodgod (can't really guess on this, since both combos were solid :/) a13x v.s. [COLOR="red"]i.suk[/COLOR] mind v.s. [COLOR="red"]leftfinger[/COLOR] [COLOR="red"]Xound[/COLOR] v.s. Baaron [COLOR="red"]ctionist[/COLOR] v.s. gollumsk8 x1213 v.s. [COLOR="red"]fel2fram[/COLOR] [COLOR="red"]sutomo[/COLOR] v.s. Kay
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 11:19:41
Ivabra v.s. [COLOR="red"]Cloud[/COLOR] [COLOR="red"]Gibki[/COLOR] v.s. thebloodgod [COLOR="red"]a13x[/COLOR] v.s. i.suk mind v.s.[COLOR="red"] leftfinger[/COLOR] [COLOR="red"]Xound[/COLOR] v.s. Baaron [COLOR="red"]ctionist[/COLOR] v.s. gollumsk8 x1213 v.s. [COLOR="red"]fel2fram[/COLOR] sutomo v.s. [COLOR="red"]Kay[/COLOR]
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 11:28:06
http://forum.upsb.info/showthread.php?t=14550 just post it here..it's far more organized this way
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 12:18:09
My predictions about round 3 (red = winners) Ivabra vs. [COLOR="red"]Cloud[/COLOR] (really a hard decision, both of them had a great combo :/) [COLOR="red"]Gibki [/COLOR]vs. Thebloodgod [COLOR="red"]a13x[/COLOR] vs. i.suk [COLOR="red"]mind[/COLOR] vs. Leftfinger Xound vs. [COLOR="red"]Baaron[/COLOR] ctionist vs. [COLOR="red"]gollumsk8[/COLOR] x1213 vs. [COLOR="red"]fel2fram[/COLOR] (sorry x1213 you combo was amazing! But i will choose fel2fram. Very hard decision.) sutomo vs. [COLOR="red"]Kay[/COLOR] Sorry guys, you are all great, but we need to make decision :)
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 13:33:06
ivabra vs cloud Gibki vs tbg a13x vs i.suk Mind vs leftfinger xound vs baaron ctionist vs gollumsk8 x1213 vs fel2fram Sutomo vs kay
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 13:43:47
[SIZE="3"]
padrace wrote: [B]i'm actually disappointed in i.suk's combo. his round 2 video was really great and i was looking forward to a lot more this round,[/B] but he used advanced spiderspin 4 times and his around segments had like a million direction changes and simple 1.0-rotation harmonic patterns. he can do so much better. that being said, this was an amazing round, [B]although gollumsk8 and ctionist were both a bit disappointing as well. [/B]loved ivabra's combo, and [B]a13x's was incredible[/B]. however,[B] i.suk is right, the concept of dual pass has been used before,[/B] although it's pretty much been more like .5 spread cont. and a13x executed it way better and his is far more difficult. it's probably one of the most impressive technical tricks ever performed. also, kay is a legend. that's all i have to say.
[/SIZE] Also, I agree with @thebloodgod I hope you didn't mean on ur video about "I just wanna lose this round" because u might, but then when time passes by, u'll realize "crap, I was in one of those WT and now I can't be in those advanced rounds because who knows, competition gets harder <_<. I was expecting more of a finisher since u said ur taking THIS seriously :hmm:. What do you think? :? And yes about x1213, It might cost his match, he keeps on doing some stuff with his left hand and it is nice and all but it doesn't give IDK the + sign to the combo vs F2F. I like his finisher though :P. Felt2Fram needs to improve his smoothness though or else, A13x might win this WT o.O. ivabra vs [B]cloud [/B]Yeah, close battle but I like Cloud's combos nowadays o.O. Gibki vs [B]tbg[/B] I still like his combo more ^_^. a13x vs [B]i.suk[/B] Something tell me this, even though many see it clear that A13X wins :hmm:. Mind vs [B]leftfinger[/B] This is tough but I see repetitive motions in Mind's combo, the flow is ok. xound vs baaron I need to re-watch them. ctionist vs [B]gollumsk8[/B] Way hard to decide, even though I expected more from Gollusmk8 :huh:. x1213 vs [B]fel2fram[/B] Idk. Not sure. [B]Sutomo [/B]vs kay Impressive ;). [COLOR="red"] [B]They're all great, but I like i.suk's, gollumsk8's, fel2fram's, thebloodgod's cloud's 2nd round combos more than their 3rd round's :thumb:.[/B][/COLOR] -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 14:23:41
Escorpio123 wrote: I see repetitive motions in Mind's combo
one directional wipers with crazy fingerslots man,where's the repetition? -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 15:12:22
there are none. 'the flow is ok' the flow is perfect looks like escorpio just doesn't know what he is talking about
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 15:50:21
SuperVValrus wrote: Predictions (bold = win): Ivabra vs. [B]Cloud[/B] [B]Gibki[/B] vs. Thebloodgod [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] sutomo vs. [B]Kay[/B]
My thoughts exactly :D -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 16:11:20
In left vs mind, i think that both combos are awesome, and both difficult. What left loses in execution, he has it in creativity. The same for fel2fram vs x1213. What fel can lose in execution/difficulty, he has it in creativity again. What is going to break the tie is what style you like most.
Spoiler
thanks for opening the spoiler. Here, have a cookie :3 -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 16:46:04
[QUOTE=meh] [B]Ivabra[/B] vs. Cloud Gibki vs. [B]Thebloodgod[/B] [B]a13x[/B] vs. i.suk mind vs. [B]Leftfinger[/B] Xound vs. [B]Baaron[/B] ctionist vs. [B]gollumsk8[/B] x1213 vs. [B]fel2fram[/B] sutomo vs. [B]Kay[/B][/QUOTE] :spin:
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 19:15:01
@Escorpio123 ,i really meant what i said.WT took too much of my time ,i promised to do something stuff with Fang couple months ago but couldnt.Originally,i joined WT cause of my dream being a world-class spinner,if it hadnt been my dream,id had been on my long pen spinning break after the solo.And i took this seriously "too much",but that didnt work well with others,did it?
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 19:53:23
Is there a zip with all the raw videos anywhere?
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 20:04:46
Every round since before the WT started I have been hoping to see Gibki win, or at least make it to the semi-finals. Shortly after Minwoo and S777 quit I searched for a new idol and found this man. This is no different(very biased) because of that weird pinky spread rise of whatever he does at around 0:12. I also really enjoy his PD arounds, reverse inverse spread-FLTA reverse, and smoothness. Gibki will probably lose to A13x or Fel2fram though. A round against ctionist would be very close.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 20:32:00
A13x i didnt understand his combo lol also Cloud uses too many busters (or what pen it is) lol my prediction that cloud will lose to ivabra and i suk will lose too a13x
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 20:46:08
RPD wrote: In left vs mind, i think that both combos are awesome, and both difficult. What left loses in execution, he has it in creativity. The same for fel2fram vs x1213. What fel can lose in execution/difficulty, he has it in creativity again. What is going to break the tie is what style you like most.
DAMMIT !!! That's the second time somebody traps me with a spoiler :D Okay Basically I think Shoeman's predictions are the most plausible results Here's a detailed comment of my thoughts on every combo : Ivabra vs. Cloud : => I'm a bit disappointed by my combo to be honest, first because I was 5 hours late and my execution could have been better. This is my hardest combo imo so I'm still pretty happy actually. Cloud's combo is beautiful and very enjoyable. He perfectly fits the artistic theme and he has some great ideas. However in my opinion his combo is not a World Tournament combo. It's not because he's not good enough or any such thing but the "aim" of his combo is to make something beautiful and artistic, he would have been a great WC participant. Besides I think his breakdown is easier than his first round, many tricks are not tricks that we're supposed to see in a world tournament. That's why his combo is great (it really is) but more intended to World cup or collabs because of the criterias of the WT (especially the "difficulty" criteria). Anyway good luck Cloud, may the best man win (sun) Gibki vs. Thebloodgod I think this battle's leve is the weakest between all the 8 battles of this round. Both combos are good, but not good enough compared to some outstanding combos from this round like Fel, Ctionist, Alex, i.suk, etc ^^ No offence but I think both shouldn't be in the third round, I think this match up is pretty tight though. I'd say Gibki's combo has a better presentation and creativity but TBG's harder. Gibki wins for me but I'm not sure at all a13x vs. i.suk A13x's combo shows us what self confidence is, that's pure madness. I'm a bit disappointed because of that part from 11 sec to 15 seconds which is only composed by some very basic tricks. He could lose some points because of this easy part. Apart from that the pinky punnew x2 are amazing even if I think his combo could have been better. i.suk's combo is more polyvalent, some great linkages and he's still a monster at powertricking but he should try to use other powertricks. His presentation is imo better than a13x's (actually I think both presentation are bad to be honest :/) and his combo is harder than alex's thanks to the hardlinks. A13x's execution is better but both should get about 3/5 imo. I'd say isuk wins but that is an awesome matchup, both could win. mind vs. Leftfinger : Mind's combo is perfectly executed except the finish. The fact that it's only composed by wipers is not a problem at all since he's always doing new ones. However Left's combo is clearly more interesting difficulty wise and is more creative, please watch that slowmotion to be sure to understand all the tricks he's doing (sun) Left should easily win imo, Mind's combo doesn't fit WT criterias even if he's an awesome spinner and he's Japen 7th mvp :D Xound vs. Baaron : Xound's combo is awesome with great linkages, I thought the execution was perfect till I saw the finish.. Baaron's combo is great too, some really nice ideas and it's pretty damn hard, but Xound's combo is harder even if shorter. However I'd like to point out that Baaron's execution clearly sucks during the whole combo, I'm sorry to say that but that's true there's a mistake every 5 seconds (or less) in the combo, there are some rhythm problems too :/ Xound's finish is completely failed though. Baaron would imo be the winner if his execution was better but right now I think Xound's combo is better. I'm pretty sure Baaron is gonna win though (both could win and Baaron is well known worldwide so people would tend to vote for him since it's almost a draw) ctionist vs. gollumsk8 I think Ctionist is the spinner that has impressed me the most in this WT so far, his combo is just perfect. Great execution and very beautiful style, very interesting breakdown too. Gollumsk has been spinning for 8 years and still a beast, his first 14 seconds are like unbelievable but the rest of the combo is easier. Both are great but I think ctionist should win x1213 vs. fel2fram F2F is obviously better. Great as usual, nothing more to say. x1213's combo is probably his best he's even made but that's not enough to beat F2F (sun) sutomo vs. Kay Both have great execution and beautiful style. However Sutomo's breakdown is more interesting while Kay's tricks are more mainstream. Sutomo clearly wins imo (sun) Thanks for reading (sun)Spoiler
thanks for opening the spoiler. Here, have a cookie :3 -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 22:08:23
Walkaz;252233]one directional wipers with crazy fingerslots man,where's the repetition?[/QUOTE] One freaking directional? there were a lot of direction changes :facepalm: Edit: there were like 3 parts that changed the direction, I didn't say it was bad, I said IT LOOKS repetitive (perhaps because of the wipers thing and I see the 70% of the pen out) ;). [QUOTE=sparking wrote: there are none. 'the flow is ok' the flow is perfect looks like escorpio just [B]doesn't know what he is talking about[/B]
I can't believe many spinners here have eye issues. I SAID I SEE REPETITIVE MOTIONS, NOT REPETITIVE TRICKS @Walkaz The flow is ok FOR ME Sparking, but for you is perfect, everyone has different opinions right? or do u like my ta harmonic in a video for 1 minute? u don't, I do right? ok that's called different opinion. :teach:. Now who is the one that doesn't know what they are talking about huh? <_<. -
Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 22:26:08
Baarons execution clearly is better than Xounds. @Escorpio123 i never mentioned any tricks. he isn't repeating anything in his combo. "huehue he is doing wipers so he is repeating motions" -> stop posting. the flow is not about opinion. it is about facts. your ta shit is something completely different.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 22:35:59
[QUOTE=sparking;252272]Baarons execution clearly is better than Xounds. @sparking
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 22:49:36
Ivabra wrote: Left should easily win imo
Lets do this by the book:
mind vs. leftfinger
Execution 4 : 3
As you pointed out, Minds combo is flawless except for the finisher. "There are no mistakes" - Check, "but the combo does not have exception smoothness or some tricks are not executed perfectly" well it does have exceptional smoothness and only the very finisher is executed not "perfectly". This must be 4 at least, if not 4.5.
Leftfinger however, is pretty much the exact definition of 3 points. He has no major mistakes but there are many parts where he does no charge at all, during his final pass part he becomes rather slow, the difference is at least 1, if not 1.5 points. Lets give him 3.
Difficulty 4:4
Both 4, both do outstandingly difficult linkages, not tricks. Leftfingers finisher is insane, he HAS difficult tricks (more than mind) but they are not very difficult, which is why giving him 5 would be unjustified.
Creativity 3:4
Both do creative tricks, in both combos they are appealing. Both don't really have any original elements but in this case I'd still give leftfinger a 1 point advantage, for linkages like 0:31-0:32 (slomo) or 0:53-0:56 (slomo). They are in no way original but I'd say his "level of spamminess" is lower than minds.
presentation 4:3,5
mind -1 for bad light and low resolution
Leftfinger -1,5 for sub-30 fps, ugly style/hand (his fingers have no tension, no fixutre, he is holding them casually. Combined with this angle, it looks shit. But hey, I'm not a biased JEB fanboy so I only take 0,5 for that)
15:14,5
Mind Wins.
No one wins a match like this "easily".
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 22:57:02
Mind's combo has lots of direction changes but only one counter-directional changes.because the combo has 90% wipers so yea...lots repetitive motions but only noobs say they are repetitive tricks and give mind a minus for that.Good or bad are words of opinion so good flow is also an opinion @sparking
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 23:40:16
[QUOTE=thebloodgod;252284]Mind's combo has lots of direction changes but only one counter-directional changes.because the combo has 90% wipers so yea...lots repetitive motions but only noobs say they are repetitive tricks and give mind a minus for that.Good or bad are words of opinion so good flow is also an opinion @thebloodgod you are right!! That's what I meant :hmm:.
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 23:47:15
Dat mori face HAHAS @Escorpio123 im talking about from the beginning to right about 6-7s , since it best represents the type of motion he went for of course right after that there was a change in direction,and a big one too
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Date: Mon, Mar 18 2013 23:59:40
taichi1082 wrote: http://i50.tinypic.com/2lm8190.jpg Lets do this by the book: presentation 4:3,5 mind -1 for bad light and low resolution Leftfinger -1,5 for sub-30 fps, ugly style/hand (his fingers have no tension, no fixutre, he is holding them casually. Combined with this angle, it looks shit. But hey, I'm not a biased JEB fanboy so I only take 0,5 for that)
false. presentation is only partly about style and visual appeal. it also includes combo structure and variety. mind's structure is absolutely prosaic, and he has absolutely no variety whatsoever, so his presentation should be heavily deducted if you want to really go "by the book." that being said, leftfinger has little actual variety too. -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 00:15:44
No, you need to read the whole thing. Presentation works the other way around, deducting points from a total of 5/5, only for major flaws. "You may choose to deduct 1 or 2 points for each of the following flaw. The flaw must be major in order to deduct 2 points." While most tricks are from the wiper class, they are often fundamentally different. This is not a flaw in variety. Neither Leftfinger, nor Mind would lose points for this. His style and appearance however, is in my opinion BY FAR ugly enough to deduct 2 points. But hey, I'm a reasonable man. I only take 0,5. I'm not a JEB fanboy. The other 1 point is for camera. Not enough FPS! mind also deserves a loss there. Bad light, bad resolution. You can't possibly argue with that.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 08:41:46
i think as most people have said, mind loses because he lacks trick family variety. Perhaps he can do all wiper combo once, even twice, but 3 times is too much. He lacks appeal and wow factor now. If i were a judge id deduce from creativity now. Perhaps he has different finger slots, but his concepts are the same. we all know he is amazing at wipers, yeah yeah. ok? but that's part of this tournament, to split the jack of all trades, from the rest.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 08:44:42
Difficulty 4:4 Both 4, both do outstandingly difficult linkages, not tricks. Leftfingers finisher is insane, he HAS difficult tricks (more than mind) but they are not very difficult, which is why giving him 5 would be unjustified.
Okay first you don't have to be rude and try to tell everyone I'm a dumb person by saying Leftfinger's combo is clearly better (which is true cause he's gonna win no matter what happens.) Secondly you serious about Mind's difficulty? I'm stunned by the fact that many people say you got a great vision of penspinning with great judgement skills but I'm sorry, by saying Leftfinger's linkages aren't "THAT HARD" is just not proving you're a good judge. You should definitely watch his slowmotion again and make sure to understand every single trick he's doing because I know you're good at judging and you shouldn't make such mistakes. Come on 14 seconds with a bust as a finisher for Mind's combo. The wipers are very beautiful there's no doubt but they are not that hard. Moreover I know at least ten spinners who would be able to copy that combo in a hour, of course it's not always true but in that case it proves it's not that hard. I can't do any of his wipers but hardlinks beats wipers imo. Dude we're in world tournament round 3, if Mind's combo deserves a 4/5 in difficulty then Fel2fram deserves a 10/5, Alex a 8/5, Ctionist a 7/5, etc. Moreover I'm pretty sure my combo is harder than his and I don't think I deserve neither less nor more than 4/5 in difficulty. Finally, how could you say Mind's combo deservers a 4/5 presentation ? In that case Alvaris would have won against Leftfinger since he only lost because of "his combo was way too dark" (which is bullshit). Because of the bad lighting he loses one point and because of his crappy cam he loses 0.5 points. AND he also loses 0.5 point because of a transparent pen on a black background which makes it hard to see. However I agree with the fact that his style is one of the most beautiful and he should get credits for that, that's why I'd give him 3/5 or 3.5/5 in presentation. Okay about Leftfinger's presentation I completely agree and I think he clearly deserves 3.5/5. For the rest of the criterias I completely agree too, imo it's a 4.5/5 in execution for Mind's combo. That makes : Mind vs Left Execution : 4.5 - 3 Difficulty : 3-4 Creativity : 3-4 (less spammy as you pointed that out) Presentation : 3 or 3.5 - 3.5 That makes Leftfinger wins by a single point or a half point, what you didn't understand the first time you read my post is that "He win easily" means "I can say Leftfinger is gonna win without checking the criterias", I didn't say the matchup wasn't tight. Thanks for that creepy picture btw ^^ But seriously I'm a bit disappointed by your reaction, I spent half an hour writing that detailed comment and receiving an answer such as "you're saying bullshit" is just not enjoyable. EDIT : Oups I missclicked, if somebody could delete my other post that would be great (sun) -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 12:05:41
Ivabra wrote: Okay first you don't have to be rude and try to tell everyone I'm a dumb person by saying Leftfinger's combo is clearly better (which is true cause he's gonna win no matter what happens.) That makes Leftfinger wins by a single point or a half point, what you didn't understand the first time you read my post is that "He win easily" means "I can say Leftfinger is gonna win without checking the criterias", I didn't say the matchup wasn't tight. Thanks for that creepy picture btw ^^ But seriously I'm a bit disappointed by your reaction, I spent half an hour writing that detailed comment and receiving an answer such as "you're saying bullshit" is just not enjoyable.
This guy doesn't seem professional to me, he lacks education in many ways, in the SB and in his comments. He is a mind's fan boy, don't worry. Just like sparking. Don't want to admit what I said about the motions of Mind page 3 :facepalm:. -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 12:29:26
Escorpio123 wrote: This guy doesn't seem professional to me, he lacks education in many ways, in the SB and in his comments. He is a mind's fan boy, don't worry. Just like sparking.
let's keep the insults out of this thread and discuss the spinning (preferably of a match that isn't mind vs leftfinger) -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 13:07:18
i.suk wrote: let's keep the insults out of this thread and discuss the spinning (preferably of a match that isn't mind vs leftfinger)
Ok. I agree. -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 13:25:22
Nice post ivabra, I can understand your opinion a bit better now! I also think Leftfinger is going to win. But if judges were like you (just claiming a win without checking the rulebook), we'd have a serious problem here. I don't think this match is as obvious as you made it out to be, especially not with said definitions, which play out to be in Minds advantage in this case.
Ivabra wrote: But seriously I'm a bit disappointed by your reaction, I spent half an hour writing that detailed comment and receiving an answer such as "you're saying bullshit" is just not enjoyable.
Huh? My post was very elaborate and there are 2 posts, which took at least 10 minutes each in which I explain why I think you are wrong. I also didn't call you a dumb person anywhere! I think you are a pretty cool guy :) Just a bit silly for saying something like "yeah yeah I know who is going to win this without proper judgment, I'm ivabra huehue" @Escorpio123 let the grown-ups talk in this thread, ok? :3 I can destroy you in the shoutbox again if you want. I'll even call sparking for extra fun. /EDIT: One thing about the difficulty: To have a 4/5, you have to do very difficult tricks OR linkages. For a 5, both. This means ction and a13x will mostly have a 5/5, of course. But I don't see how mind or leftfinger be better or worse here. Neither one is doing a difficult tricks and both have very difficult linkages. As you pointed out, if you or someone you know can do them does hardly matter. However, I agree that this is probably the most difficult aspect to argue for. 0:04/0:05, 0:07+ and 0:10/0:11 seem to me as being very difficult, just as the parts I pointed out in Leftfingers combo. -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 17:14:43
By the way guys, I think my execution was pretty decent this time. Could someone point out what is sloppy ? I don't have an objective point of view.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 18:53:42
different flow than usual made your combo looks sloppy i guess
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 20:30:05
Mind if I give my 2 cents? Mind vs Leftfinger [B]Execution:[/B] Leftfinger - In terms of speed consistency and reduction of errors, very nice from Leftfinger up until 0:13-0:18, his finisher. Some minor speed changes with the passes, and the FL TA linking breaks up the speed a little too, with the criteria between 4 and five talking about exceptional smoothness and tricks executed properly, he's not a 5, his speed is impacted at the end, so we get a four. With his trick execution, I really don't agree with "uneven rotations, loss of control or shaky pen", I think he's closer to a four. I'd put him at 3.75 points for execution. I don't agree with Taichi talking about charges, conical spins are impacting PRESENTATION of the combo, style, NOT execution. Mind - I'll agree with taichi here, very nice smoothness for the majority of the combo, finisher is shaky, but the speed is not broken as such. 4 points, but what the fuck, how do you fuck up a double bust. [B]Difficulty[/B] Leftfinger - Nice combination of tricky wipers (somewhat figure 0 style, I like), difficult pass linkages, direction changes, arounds. His tricks are not as difficult as his links, but they are at a midway between nothing exceptional and very difficult, so he gets the extra 0.5 point, giving 4.5 Mind - Tricky wipers, but I have done a lot of the wiper links he has done before, and I don't see them as that exceptional. It is good to note in mind (no pun intended) that he's not endlessly using infinity variations, some of his wipers seem to originate from sections f2f, as I got those same wipers from his combos. Tricks are not difficult on their own. It's difficult whether to score him 3.5 or four, but for optimisms sake, I'll give him the four, though realistically he would not get this. [B]Creativity[/B] Leftfinger - Combo is generally creative, gives him a three, originality wise I see a couple of rarely used variations, but they are under creativity, his finisher pass hybrid is new though and it's exceptional, he gets a 4. Mind - Some wipers seem to be used by F2F before, I believe I saw a simple fingercross element F2F used but I could barely see with the camera, I do it myself and it's easy, no difficulty added for it. The wipers taking up the whole combo is rare, but unfortunately the wiper links on their own are not as creative. I will be optimistic though and give him a 3, but there is no originality here. [B]Presentation[/B] Leftfinger - Low FPS loses out on 0.5 of a point, but his combo is completely visible and it's a minor flaw. I disagree with his angle being a problem, it's not confusing and you can see what he's doing. Style wise, he's no mind, loses another half point, but it's not really that ugly, it's still appreciable. Mind - Nice style unlike left finger, loses no points there, angle is fine. Camera is terrible as FUCK. I can deduct two points here, and I will, because in slo mo the resolution, awful contast and lighting can make it hard to see exactly what he's doing at times, extremely disappointing. Taichi, I believe you're biased towards Mind here and used it to deliberately make Mind win, his camera was definitely deserving of -2 as I couldn't see ANYTHING, while Leftfinger lost the same amount of points for slightly sub 30 FPS, fucking intentionally picky. [B]TOTALS[/B] Execution: Mind (4), Leftfinger (3.75) Difficulty: Mind (4), Leftfinger (4.5) Creativity: Mind (3), Leftfinger (4) Presentation: Mind (3), Leftfinger (4) [B]Mind (14/20), Leftfinger (16.25/20)[/B] Use of half and quarter points between judging criteria is essential when they're so vague. If you don't do it, your judging will be binary and skewed, I think any judge who has not atleast considered half and quarter points on all criteria likely has inaccurate judgements. This interpretation means that results are more accurate, and demonstrates how Leftfinger wins with a more diverse combo. It's just advanced judging, but I do believe we should change the judging system to a better one.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 20:43:03
I'll give my 10 cents: Mind wins, just because I like the structure better.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 21:43:09
your execution was phenomenal. i don't know what anyone is talking about when they say it's sloppy. the only problem is that it's hard to see you opening link. you should leave more time at the beginning of the video before the combo actually begins. but anyway, this is one of your best combos ever, almost as good as your neoy 1st combo and last year's fpsb tournament vs. futhark. those are my favorites by you.
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Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 21:56:15
eurocracy wrote: Mind - Nice style unlike left finger, loses no points there, angle is fine. Camera is terrible as FUCK. I can deduct two points here, and I will, because in slo mo the resolution, awful contast and lighting can make it hard to see exactly what he's doing at times, extremely disappointing.
Completely agreed. I struggled to look at the pen through the lighting. While the hand was semi-clear, the pen and the tricks were obscured to the point of detriment. Style, while an important factor, can be worked around (you can appreciate an 'unpresentable' style). Lighting on the other hand has a very clear line for good and bad. I don't know the correct point-values to ascribe things, but I can list out what needs to be factored in for the presentation score (assuming points can only be lost): Mind: Poor lighting, to the point of obscuring the combo Low resolution, but not to the point of obscuring the combo Angle, but not to the point of obscuring the combo (significantly) Brief off-camera, but not to the point of obscuring the combo Superfluous video segments, not intended to add to presentation, but not to the point of excess Leftfinger: Style Brief off-camera, but not to the point of obscuring the combo Low resolution, but not to the point of obscuring the combo To award mind a win in this category, 'style' must outweigh 'Angle, but not to the point of obscuring the combo (significantly)', 'Superfluous video segments, not intended to add to presentation, but not to the point of excess' and 'Poor lighting, to the point of obscuring the combo' -
Date: Tue, Mar 19 2013 22:57:42
@eurocracy have you read the rulebook? (scoring in 0.5 increments) execution: Leftfingers combo is a solid 3/5 in execution. there are no major mistakes, but it's not a 4/5 since the charge rotations are uneven and there are a few minor mistakes. the first bigger one is at 0:09. mind 4.5/5 difficulty: both are difficult. i wouldn't mind (huehue) going with your 4/5 and 4.5/5 creativity: here your argumentations gets weak. deducting points because f2f might've used a linkage, but saying Lefts linkages are rarely used variations and therefore kind of original... the first 10 seconds of lefts video are rather uncreative. the wipers have been used before, the neosonic stuff (you might call it something different) is creative but not original. download the video, watch it frame by frame. minds wiperlinkings are creative. yes, the camera is bad, but it is still enough to see what he is doing. presentation: minds was bad, lefts was bad. i don't see how deducting 2 points for bad resolution and bad lighting is justifiable when only deducting 0.5 points for bad fps.
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 01:13:53
eurocracy;252470] I really don't agree with "uneven rotations, loss of control or shaky pen", I think he's closer to a four. I'd put him at 3.75 points for execution. [/QUOTE] A 4 is "There are no mistakes" There are mistakes (multiple minor, check my post). Not a 4. [QUOTE=eurocracy;252470]I don't agree with Taichi talking about charges, conical spins are impacting PRESENTATION of the combo, style, NOT execution.[/QUOTE] Yeah no. From the rulebook "There are no major mistakes, but minor mistakes such as uneven rotations [...]" Lel. Read the rules. [QUOTE=eurocracy;252470] The whole part about difficulty[/QUOTE] Again, you don't go by the rulebook, what the fuck. [QUOTE=eurocracy;252470]I believe I saw a simple fingercross element F2F used but I could barely see with the camera[/QUOTE] >Fingercross element I see. If thats all what you think this combo is, I probably did a bad job explaining what I found creative and/or difficult :/ [QUOTE=eurocracy;252470]I disagree with his angle being a problem, it's not confusing and you can see what he's doing.[/QUOTE] No, it's not confusing. I was refering to his setup in general, which makes his spinning look ugly. I probably need to elaborate on this, you aren't the first one to ask about that. [QUOTE=eurocracy wrote: Taichi, I believe you're biased towards Mind here and used it to deliberately make Mind win, his camera was definitely deserving of -2 as I couldn't see ANYTHING, while Leftfinger lost the same amount of points for slightly sub 30 FPS, fucking intentionally picky.
Yeah nice strawman. 3/10 see me after class -
Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 02:08:51
[QUOTE=taichi1082;252428] @taichi1082
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 04:14:49
First of all, this isn't directed to anybody in particular, it's just a reaction to what I've read on this thread so far. Second of all, it's only an opinion, and you don't have to agree, or even read it if you don't want to. :) I've never looked at judging pen spinning so mechanically, like the "analysis" that is going on here. Not only can difficulty be highly subjective, a lot of other components of a combo can be as well. (style, presentation). I don't think we should be scoring spinners on how many hoops they can jump through, but rather on who's combo best qualifies them to win in the context of their opponent. Otherwise, why should we even have spinners submit a combo, as a opposed to say, do a set number of difficult tricks, define and weight mistakes based on their magnitude, and have a completely objective contest? Maybe it's a problem with the way judging is laid out in the rulebook, but I also think it's a bit too much of an extreme reaction to "poor judging" where spinners who don't understand a combo at all simply take it at face value. The reason we have so many judges is because judging is subjective, if you all came up with, or even agreed upon the same score and the same result, there wouldn't be any point. The rulebook is a guide, and that's it. Yes judges should read it and yes judges should use it, but ideally, a judge should be able to take into account and elaborate, using their own experience, on the scores. If a spinner wins as a result of bias, so be it, we all have biases towards certain things in pen spinning. The whole reason for having multiple judges is so that these biases shape the direction of the contest, and ultimately the choice of the winner, so that it reflects the qualities we as pen spinners feel deserve to win. If say, a combo with harder tricks wins over one with hard linkages, perhaps that is simply saying we as pen spinners value hard tricks over linkages at this point in time. Even if you have judged differently, the goal isn't to get one single person's opinion, but for others (hopefully, just as qualified as you!) to voice their own through the scale which is presented in the rulebook. Anyways, that's my opinion, do with it what you will.
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 06:36:03
i.suk;252420]let's keep the insults out of this thread and discuss the spinning (preferably of a match that isn't mind vs leftfinger)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Escorpio123;252425]Ok. I agree.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Escorpio123 wrote: Grown-up? you are one of those? You are a punk-ass kid, what are you talking about? And you didn't destroy anything, u only destroyed ur head when I was right in the SB, last time I checked, I had more ppl leaning on what I was saying than you had in your lame explanations and insults :P. Keep posting, this sh. wont end, try me :yo:. taichi1082
lol seriously, just stop -._-. i'm pretty amused about upsb's 'intelligence' if you really had more support in terms of judging though, i knew upsb was silly but this is going a bit far :rofl: edit: also, your past 2 or 3 posts (maybe more) in this thread haven't really contributed to discussion about spinning this round whatsoever, maybe try to mix in your insults with spinning analysis at the very least on topic: from the analyses posted so far, 1 concludes mind to win by 0.5 points, the other concludes leftfinger to win by 0.5 points --> it can go either way, w/e. "If a spinner wins as a result of bias, so be it, we all have biases towards certain things in pen spinning. The whole reason for having multiple judges is so that these biases shape the direction of the contest, and ultimately the choice of the winner, so that it reflects the qualities we as pen spinners feel deserve to win." (in shoeman's post) yes, this is true, except it seems that the variation in bias/preferences between competitors and judges, and various members of rest of public is significant, so the winners may not ultimately reflect the qualities 'we' feel deserve to win ^^ (of course, nothing can be done about this) -
Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 06:53:55
LeftFinger Wins, barely, but he does :hmm:.
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 08:18:28
Reserved, will be doing a more complicated analysis of the judging system and both combos, I need time to do full breakdowns and go through every detail. What shoeman said about opinions etc is true though, a lot of attacking people's judgements here. I did go on about taichi ranking mind's camera like leftfinger's camera, but that's because they're vastly different and Mibds was frankly an eyesore and made it ridiculously hard to see the combo. (Additionally taichi, that's not a strawman, and I'll go into detail with the analysis to demonstrate the idea)
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 14:31:33
shoeman6 wrote: Anyways, that's my opinion
I hate you so much -
Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 18:31:14
I have got to disagree with shoeman. As penspinning in general does not feature easily comparable aspects, we have to have certain criteria that can be somehow measured and therefore compared. As nobody complained about the rulebook before the world tournament started, we have to judge only by them. I agree that it seems strange to simply state certain points that can be judged, but for a competition it is neccessary to have them. You can argue that these criteria need to be improved, but you can hardly expect to see fair and good results that satisfy a great amount of people if you don't stick to set rules. Your point concearning the reason for why we have so many judges is in my opinion wrong. The reason why the amount of judges is so high is to make sure unexperienced judges don't alter the outcome of the battle too much.
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Date: Wed, Mar 20 2013 21:24:27
Even the best judges will disagree.
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 18:16:49
im in mexico right now so i may not be available to compute the results i've asked @iColor to do it for me
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 19:23:01
Who do people have to send the results to?
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Date: Fri, Mar 22 2013 20:14:20
BPSC judgements sent to worldpenspinning, should I send it to another address?
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Date: Sat, Mar 23 2013 15:28:55
[email][email protected][/email]
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Date: Sat, Mar 23 2013 19:56:07
Zombo wrote: [email][email protected][/email]
Yep that's where I sent it:) -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 02:07:44
fel2fram wrote: By the way guys, I think my execution was pretty decent this time. Could someone point out what is sloppy ? I don't have an objective point of view.
0:14-0:16 was rushed and shaky. everything else was perfect though. -
Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 13:47:46
vpc sent
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Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 14:02:31
any update on which boards have sent judgments? a small part of my mind clings onto a hope that results will be out on time, despite zombo being on holiday :D upsb sent ~ 7 hours ago
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Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 14:04:03
GPC should've sent, if i remember Syrtis words correctly.
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Date: Sun, Mar 24 2013 14:55:08
received lpsa ipsb bpsc twps gpc ppsc spsb jeb spsc ppp kpsa upsb hkpsa vpc @iColor, please share the results from all the e-mails in the inbox