UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / R.I.P to the 27 passed in Conn. Grammar School.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 20:11:56
Horrible news. mostly young children in K-4 grades. Can't believe dude shot up his mom(was teacher at school) then went on to kill a ton more kids/people. :angry:
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 21:41:05
RIP
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:00:15
This reminds me of the movie theater shooting. People are going to complain about gun laws because of this. This could not have been prevented IMO. RIP children and teachers of a CN school.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:04:10
astronaut wrote: This reminds me of the movie theater shooting. People are going to complain about gun laws because of this. This could not have been prevented IMO. RIP children and teachers of a CN school.
Something tells me he wouldnt have been able to kill 27 people with a knife, or whatever silly argument it is people use against gun control Maybe the solution is for the elementary school kids to have concealed weapons. -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:12:34
RIP
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:12:50
PS: Everyone should send their thoughts here http://m.house.gov/representatives/
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:16:23
Sent this email to my representative: "Since clearly eliminating guns from our culture is far too reprehensible to even consider, the only solution becomes clear: Elementary school students should be allowed to have concealed carry permits. Our government has decided that people having guns is perfectly safe, because OTHER people are also allowed to have guns, and can stop them. But that's not true in an elementary school, so the students are in danger. Please reply with your thoughts for my solution, or possibly just consider eliminating the "right" to own war machines. Best, Alex"
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:41:14
strat1227 wrote: Something tells me he wouldnt have been able to kill 27 people with a knife, or whatever silly argument it is people use against gun control
# Aaactually ... http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html?hpt=hp_bn2 I know those were only wounded but wounding someone and killing someone is pretty close. One can be the consequence of the other. -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:45:05
Isn't the death toll 26? I wonder how many mass shootings it will take before the US tightens up its gun control laws.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:47:37
neXus wrote: wounding someone and killing someone is pretty close.
Nope. Not even remotely close. Not even comparable really. I've been injured tons of times, several of them even really serious. Never been killed. There's a HUGE difference. -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:53:13
Still pretty easy to kill someone with a knife. If you train for a bit. The gun or the knife are merely tools. The crazy behind it is the problem.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 22:55:12
neXus wrote: Still pretty easy to kill someone with a knife. If you train for a bit.
Yep, but not easy to kill 27 people. There's a GIGANTIC difference between how effortless it is to end someone's life with a gun, and what it takes to kill someone with a knife. It's just not even in the same conversation. -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:10:23
strat1227 wrote: Sent this email to my representative: "Since clearly eliminating guns from our culture is far too reprehensible to even consider, the only solution becomes clear: Elementary school students should be allowed to have concealed carry permits. Our government has decided that people having guns is perfectly safe, because OTHER people are also allowed to have guns, and can stop them. But that's not true in an elementary school, so the students are in danger. Please reply with your thoughts for my solution, or possibly just consider eliminating the "right" to own war machines. Best, Alex"
Relevant Israeli elementary school class.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:22:36
RIP to all. Just imagine how the parents of the kids must be thinking "WHY DID I HAVE TO SEND MY CHILD TO SCHOOL TODAY?" Its very sad. But of course, we are in the US and gun companies can bribe Congress/Senate way too easily. And unfortunately, the greedy fools prefer money over saving peoples lives.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:45:04
strat1227 wrote: Maybe the solution is for the elementary school kids to have concealed weapons.
something tells me this would bring more harm than good. maybe the solution is to provide people with proper in-school shooting training (or anything similar) and have teachers identify children with dangerous motives beforehand -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:45:20
:O THAT BASTARD.
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Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:46:39
astronaut wrote: This reminds me of the movie theater shooting. People are going to complain about gun laws because of this. This could not have been prevented IMO. RIP children and teachers of a CN school.
today, a man in China injured 22 children at a primary school with a knife. He was not able to kill any of them BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A GUN. same day, same situation, different weapon. -
Date: Fri, Dec 14 2012 23:54:03
SJ wrote: something tells me this would bring more harm than good.
should have put a [/sarcasm] tag i guess ....... -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:12:32
You cannot expect to give elementary students concealed weapons and expect them to act responsibly. They are kids. What happens if you get a kid toying around with the gun and boom! it goes off. Then there's another issue, especially if the bullet hits someone. All these murders and attacks on people with weapons (guns specifically) makes responsible weapon owners look bad.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:15:00
Quake wrote: You cannot expect to give elementary students concealed weapons and expect them to act responsibly. They are kids. What happens if you get a kid toying around with the gun and boom! it goes off. Then there's another issue, especially if the bullet hits someone.
Good point. :facepalm: -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:20:31
rofl cant believe ppl actually think strat was serious with the remark
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:27:36
Zombo;238006]today, a man in China injured 22 children at a primary school with a knife. He was not able to kill any of them BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A GUN. [/QUOTE] maybe he just didnt know how..... [QUOTE=strat1227 wrote: should have put a [/sarcasm] tag i guess .......
lol fair enough -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:33:05
SJ wrote: maybe he just didnt know how.....
thats the point though ... anyone can pick up a gun and kill people. period. i could go to walmart tomorrow and buy a gun and go kill 10 people, no problem. can't do that with a knife. it'd have to be someone with training or some shit it's just way way way way too easy right now for anyone to just decide "welp. i'm gonna go kill some people!" it's fucking ridiculous -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:41:39
Sup 12/21/12
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 00:41:48
SJ wrote: maybe he just didnt know how..... lol fair enough
obviously you can kill ppl with your bare fists even if you know how. you can kill with everything with proper training. the point is guns are easier and kill faster and more reliably. they dont require much training or physical strength to use. theres a reason why we developed guns in the first place, to help win wars. troops without guns, no matter how trained they are, were decimated by firearms. you can't deny history. -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 01:30:13
That awkward moment when there's a Similar Thread called "End of School".
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 01:49:24
The reality is that we can't control guns, people will get them even if they're outlawed. I think that a better idea would be to invest in mental health facilities and help people who have mental illnesses. Raise awareness and get help for people who need it. Also, the mainstream media needs to stop glorifying/romanticizing murder, making the killer out to be an anti-hero, and making the killer famous for their crimes. People do this to be remembered. Stop interviewing traumatized 8 year olds as well, the media will do all sorts of unethical things to get their viewers.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 01:55:53
Fuse wrote: The reality is that we can't control guns, people will get them even if they're outlawed.
There's already a gun control thread elsewhere, but this argument is identical to saying "People are going to get and use heroin even if it's outlawed, so why bother?" It's a silly, idealistic, pointless argument. Of course you're right that we should try to help in other ways too, but saying "Well, we can't get rid of ALL guns, so why even try" is absurd -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 02:00:45
[QUOTE="Fuse"]The reality is that we can't control guns, people will get them even if they're outlawed.[/QUOTE] A lot of countries seem to manage this apparently difficult task.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 02:02:40
Fuse wrote: The reality is that we can't control guns, people will get them even if they're outlawed.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/ -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 02:04:55
Civilians owning guns makes a country much more likely to resist invaders though. America owes a big part of its early development to the militia. To outlaw guns is against its roots. Sure modern values that have taken root in a time of peace may dictate they should be outlawed; but there is a national strength that is gained only from having armed civilians. Sure tragedies like this may happen but an open policy on firearms can divert ones on a much larger scale.
strat1227 wrote: There's already a gun control thread elsewhere, but this argument is identical to saying "People are going to get and use heroin even if it's outlawed, so why bother?" It's a silly, idealistic, pointless argument. Of course you're right that we should try to help in other ways too, but saying "Well, we can't get rid of ALL guns, so why even try" is absurd
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 02:06:06
Sorry, I should clarify. I'm saying that I think gun control is a good thing, and banning them would reduce the amounts of incidents like this, but we should also focus on other ways of prevention since someone that determined could find a gun illegally, or even just use another weapon.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 02:14:32
Fuse wrote: Sorry, I should clarify. I'm saying that I think gun control is a good thing, and banning them would reduce the amounts of incidents like this, but we should also focus on other ways of prevention since someone that determined could find a gun illegally, or even just use another weapon.
So true. And like someone else said (forgot who), wasn't it 26 people? RIP you 26/27 people. -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 03:18:03
Omg, I heard this today in the morning, Rip Children, so sad men :(.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 03:34:54
why can't we just have god damn semi automatics banned lol. dude was wielding a fucking bushmaster AR-15, thats standard military firearm for the marines...
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 03:39:10
oops double post
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 04:16:37
Loanshark wrote: Relevant Israeli elementary school class. http://i.imgur.com/Ts1So.jpg
You can't compare Israel to the States. Military training and carrying a weapon is compulsory in Israel. Oh and that isn't a class or even a teacher. That's a parent helping out at a field trip. The teachers in Israel don't carry weapons either. RIP to the deceased, no parent or family deserves to go through what happened today. -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 05:13:15
Awesome wrote: Civilians owning guns makes a country much more likely to resist invaders though. America owes a big part of its early development to the militia. To outlaw guns is against its roots. Sure modern values that have taken root in a time of peace may dictate they should be outlawed; but there is a national strength that is gained only from having armed civilians. Sure tragedies like this may happen but an open policy on firearms can divert ones on a much larger scale.
Another completely absurdist argument. Good luck holding off an army with tanks, planes, boats, and goddamn nukes with a gat. -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 05:36:12
RIP
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 06:05:19
saw it on news... damn RIP.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 11:03:48
against the roots? strength gained from armed civilians? srsly? 'its a part of our constitution' oh god i cant believe people are actually saying this dont sell guns to every fuck
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 13:00:07
Awesome wrote: but there is a national strength that is gained only from having armed civilians
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 13:58:13
South korea has prohibited the possesion of arms for most people. The land still is flourishing with economic and technologic growth. There is no real reason for the US citizens to have guns unless they live in areas where they would be endangered to encounter thieves, robbers, etc frequently.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 14:01:37
RIP
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 15:21:22
http://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2012/07/20/america-is-a-violent-country/
Naa, that statistic is not significant in regards to the US. -
Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 15:35:52
Rest In Peace.
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Date: Sat, Dec 15 2012 17:30:09
strat1227 wrote: Another completely absurdist argument. Good luck holding off an army with tanks, planes, boats, and goddamn nukes with a gat.
The war in the middle east would suggest otherwise. Why does America have such trouble with all its panes, boats and tanks? That said it is an absurd argument. -
Date: Sun, Dec 16 2012 01:56:05
If a man really wants to kill someone that man will kill someone, true guns will make it much easier, but if you are so intent on killing another human being, and so mentally out of it like the man who committed such a horrible act, he would have killed. Whether he had a gun or a 2x4 wouldn't have stopped him.
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Date: Sun, Dec 16 2012 05:01:59
Tentcell wrote: If a man really wants to kill someone that man will kill someone, true guns will make it much easier, but if you are so intent on killing another human being, and so mentally out of it like the man who committed such a horrible act, he would have killed. Whether he had a gun or a 2x4 wouldn't have stopped him.
it would be hard to prevent one death, but much easier to prevent 26 deaths. it would take far longer to kill, plus its easier to escape a melee weapon than a ranged one. this is common sense, can't believe some ppl dont understand how lethal guns are. QUANTITY does matter. killing one person is not the same as 20, 1000 or 1 million. this is why the nuclear bomb is banned. -
Date: Sun, Dec 16 2012 05:55:16
The guy killed himself
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Date: Sun, Dec 16 2012 06:01:53
have to agree with zombo. The dude in china tried to kill people and went like 0 for 25 trying to knife so guns are pretty more deadly from that point of view
Zombo wrote: it would be hard to prevent one death, but much easier to prevent 26 deaths. it would take far longer to kill, plus its easier to escape a melee weapon than a ranged one. this is common sense, can't believe some ppl dont understand how lethal guns are. QUANTITY does matter. killing one person is not the same as 20, 1000 or 1 million. this is why the nuclear bomb is banned.
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Date: Tue, Dec 18 2012 06:07:34
how did he get 0 kills? i mean stab someone in the neck or head, and theyre dead......maybe his intent wasnt to kill, but injure them with continuous pain i could be 100% wrong
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Date: Tue, Dec 18 2012 18:47:35
uh no, this is not the first incident, theres been some cases where 4-5 kids died with a knife in china, maybe he got greedy and botched each killing, hence knives are less reliable than guns
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Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 00:35:14
And either way, usually killing specific individuals isn't the point, it's to inflict mass damage ... he probably was just running around stabbing/swiping at whoever he could reach, wasn't going to have surgical precision to kill one person when he can run around cutting 5 And that's waaay more analysis than it deserves, it should be self-evident that someone with a knife will be exponentially less dangerous than someone with a fucking assault riffle, wtf are we even arguing here?
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Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 05:51:17
lets be clear tho, although so far the debate has been about whether the same amount of damage could have been done with a knife, which frankly is ridiculous because guns are obviously more lethal than knives, the real debate should be about "whether or not banning guns would make this country safer" and there you go into issues such as: 1- guns contraband 2- self-defense 3- "gun culture" of the USA 4- how to implement a new gun law: can owners easily hide their existing guns from the law? etc which are far harder to argue for or argainst.
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Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 06:35:45
It's not the guns that are a problem. It's the people. It's all a cry for attention and this is the easiest way to get it. Kill 20 kids and get a week's worth of news coverage, we don't even know his name but everyone knows who he is. It's sad really. He knew that it would be everywhere, he knew he would be famous. I'm tired of hearing about gun control, why don't we look into the people behind those guns? Plus you're never going to take away America's guns, the NRA won't allow it.
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Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 07:52:28
strat1227;238766]And that's waaay more analysis than it deserves, it should be self-evident that someone with a knife will be exponentially less dangerous than someone with a fucking assault riffle, wtf are we even arguing here?[/QUOTE] whatre we talkin about here man? we're talkin about practice.....not the game. practice. lol jk in all seriousness, i think banning guns will do more good than harm. think about it....... shooters will have an extremely difficult time getting their hands on guns if theyre banned which makes it much much harder to kill or mass murder sure, guns can be good for recreational use, but for the good of the world, banning it will be safer [QUOTE=sangara wrote: It's not the guns that are a problem. It's the people. It's all a cry for attention and this is the easiest way to get it. Kill 20 kids and get a week's worth of news coverage, we don't even know his name but everyone knows who he is. It's sad really. He knew that it would be everywhere, he knew he would be famous. I'm tired of hearing about gun control, why don't we look into the people behind those guns? Plus you're never going to take away America's guns, the NRA won't allow it.
its seems more efficient to ban guns rather than have people talk to a therapist dont you think? its much harder to manage the mental state of individuals than physical materials im not saying banning guns will 100% prevent shooting incidents but itll help reduce it no doubt -
Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 14:44:40
http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school Pretty interesting. The gun is just a tool, sure it's a tool that's easy to get to in the US but the real problem is that people think the solution to their problem is harming others.
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Date: Wed, Dec 19 2012 21:11:39
neXus wrote: the real problem is that people think the solution to their problem is harming others.
I disagree, it's not a logical process that they're going through. Besides, people trying to hurt each other will always happen, the problem is how absurdly insanely stupifyingly EASY it is for those people to just decide to murder dozens of people at a time Right now, I could just decide I want to end dozens of people's lives, and it would be easy as hell. There's something wrong with that -
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 07:44:35
SJ wrote: whatre we talkin about here man? we're talkin about practice.....not the game. practice. lol jk in all seriousness, i think banning guns will do more good than harm. think about it....... shooters will have an extremely difficult time getting their hands on guns if theyre banned which makes it much much harder to kill or mass murder sure, guns can be good for recreational use, but for the good of the world, banning it will be safer its seems more efficient to ban guns rather than have people talk to a therapist dont you think? its much harder to manage the mental state of individuals than physical materials im not saying banning guns will 100% prevent shooting incidents but itll help reduce it no doubt
Efficient to ban guns? are you fucking kidding? it would be logistically more feasible to ban the presence of wall-to-wall carpet in people's houses. -
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 09:12:58
strat1227 wrote: Right now, I could just decide I want to end dozens of people's lives, and it would be easy as hell. There's something wrong with that
The problem is that the United States gives the people so much freedom. We have so many different rights, and America is known as the freedom country. Thus getting our hands on weapons is no hard task. Along with the fact that every year, humans as a species find better ways to kill faster and more efficiently. I bet that before guns were invented, there were not as many murders and killings compared to after guns were invented. Then imagine, when the atomic bomb was created. Thousands could be wiped out like nothing. Now obviously, obtaining an atomic bomb is something altogether and not just anyone can get their hands on one, but that is not the point. The point is that we can kill better, easier, and more efficiently than ever before. Ideally, humans would grow in self control and intelligence as these dangerous weapons were created, and use them defensively,, but that doesn't happen. People don't change that much. Thus, weapons don't kill people. People kill people.