UPSB v4
Research Department Feedback / Notation Suggestion
-
Date: Wed, Nov 21 2012 18:44:52
I think at the moment the notation system is already pretty good, but there are still some things that can't be written easily. I tried to think of little changes to the existing system to make linkages easier to write. It probably still lacks at many parts so your help for constructing a better system is necessary. So here's my little presentation on the system I have in mind: At the moment the notation for sonic and inv sonic would both be the same: charge 23 ~ pass 23-13 ~ pass 13-12 For these two tricks the problem can easily be solved, afterall we already invented two different names for the two different tricks. However I doubt that we should keep inventing new trick names for things like fingerpositions that can't be notated at the moment. A lot more names would be needed and the tricklists would be endless. How would judges be able to keep up with all the names being invented all over the world for small differences in tricks? To fight this problem I thought of this little change to the existing notation system: sonic: charge 23 ~ pass 23-13 [2'] ~ pass 13-12 inv sonic: charge 23 ~ pass 23-12 [2] ~ pass 13-12 The difference is small, but it allows the spinners to notate the important finger positions for the trick. Let me explain the system: If we look at the pass 23-13 [2'] part in the sonic breakdown the only difference is the [2']. This [2'] was added to notate the position of 2 in this trick which would be a folded position. So my notation [x[B]'[/B]] would notate the [B]folded[/B] position of finger x during the execution of the linkage. Now let's look at the inv sonic notation: The important part here pass 23-13 [2] also contains only one new element, [2]. In my notation [x] we can see that the finger x is [B]unfolded[/B] during the execution of the trick. [B]edit:[/B] I also thought of the position of more than one finger: Let's use some examples: Flushsonic: charge 23 ~ inv sonic 13 [3'2] ~ pass 13-23 Sonic x2 / Sonic jump: charge 34 ~ pass 14 [32]' ~ pass 14-12 Now the syntax for this: [[B]x'[/B]y] the [B]x'[/B] shows that x is marked as folded while y isn't marked so it's unfolded [xy][B]'[/B] shows that both x and y are in [B]folded[/B] position, because the mark [B]'[/B] is outside of the brackets. The mark now applies to the whole bracket meaning that all components of the bracket are marked as folded. The complete setup for the new element in the notation would be f := [xa ya za]a x, y, z = {1, 2, 3, 4, T} a = {', } This simple syntax allows the notation of fingerpositions in a combo by adding only one new element to the existing breakdown. I think it would be a good extension of the existing system to enable notation of more complex linkages without the need to write extra explanation. This is of course just theory at the moment and I haven't tested this system for more complex linkages yet so I would like to ask experienced spinners to test this system and share their experiences with so that I can work together with you to create a statisfying system that fits todays standarts in penspinning. Thank you for reading. (sun)
-
Date: Wed, Nov 21 2012 19:48:54
I can see how this could be useful, especially with spider spin variants.
-
Date: Wed, Nov 21 2012 20:57:19
Wow. Great job! I suck at notating but this is extremely useful for complex tricks and linkages. I hope that this addition to notation catches on
-
Date: Wed, Nov 21 2012 23:12:11
Why would you not just write 'Sonic' or 'Inverse Sonic'? Why would you break them down so far as to this in a written breakdown? :?
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 00:00:34
can someone try breaking down fire@fox's wt11 combo with this?
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 01:16:34
I thought you were talking about twisted sonic with your first example. Sonic 23-12 could be notated as sonic 23-12 with current notation. As for fingers just watch the videos.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 11:53:29
The sonic was just a simple example that i used. Of course it doesnt make muxh sense for existing hybrid names. The system is for complex modern hybrids ala s777 ans fire@fox.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 12:33:01
ChainBreak wrote: The sonic was just a simple example that i used. Of course it doesnt make muxh sense for existing hybrid names. The system is for complex modern hybrids ala s777 ans fire@fox.
Find some examples the existing system doesn't cover? -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 13:06:30
Walkaz' new trick would be a good example. Neither pass 12-13 nor inv sonic notation would cover the concept of the trick. I can find new examples when i get home, i dont wanna look for some in school and after my physics exam.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 13:31:47
ChainBreak wrote: Walkaz' new trick would be a good example. Neither pass 12-13 nor inv sonic notation would cover the concept of the trick. I can find new examples when i get home, i dont wanna look for some in school and after my physics exam.
Video and explainations please! -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 18:34:53
Pshh whiny bitch. <_< A video will take some time, because I don't know when I'll have time to film & voice record.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 19:15:13
ChainBreak wrote: Pshh whiny bitch. <_< A video will take some time, because I don't know when I'll have time to film & voice record.
I don't mean of you. I just mean, here is a video of a trick -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 20:18:13
http://forum.upsb.info/showthread.php?t=13307 seriously. This was just one topic below...
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 20:25:04
ChainBreak wrote: http://forum.upsb.info/showthread.php?t=13307 seriously. This was just one topic below...
And your suggested breakdowns with current and your notation? This really is not difficult CB... -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 22:42:13
It requires too much text and that's just for one trick. Imagine a combo full of these and having to explain every third linkage like that. It would be a pain in the ass not only for the spinners, but also for the judges. If you just look at Fel2Fram's breakdown stuffs you can see just how much text he as to use and keep explaining his linkages. For me this is an indicator that the current notation system is still lacking. That's why I want to try and improve it. The simple addition to the system I thought up would mean 3~4 extra characters instead of two sentences. If you do the math on this you can see how it can make the notations shorter. And not only that, because it notates fingerpositions it's a easy way to explain what you're doing. If you're writing sentences over sentences just to describe what you're doing in a few linkages you're more likely to mess up at some point. If you keep it short it's easier to write, easier to read and easier to find and correct mistakes in the explanations.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 22:43:17
ChainBreak wrote: It requires too much text and that's just for one trick. Imagine a combo full of these and having to explain every third linkage like that. It would be a pain in the ass not only for the spinners, but also for the judges. If you just look at Fel2Fram's breakdown stuffs you can see just how much text he as to use and keep explaining his linkages. For me this is an indicator that the current notation system is still lacking. That's why I want to try and improve it. The simple addition to the system I thought up would mean 3~4 extra characters instead of two sentences. If you do the math on this you can see how it can make the notations shorter. And not only that, because it notates fingerpositions it's a easy way to explain what you're doing. If you're writing sentences over sentences just to describe what you're doing in a few linkages you're more likely to mess up at some point. If you keep it short it's easier to write, easier to read and easier to find and correct mistakes in the explanations.
You write an entire paragraph, you've written several posts, but you still cannot show an example of your system being used. Why is this? Why not just show its usefulness right now? :? -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 22:56:44
I think i already wrote that i lack time atm. If i have the time i will work on it.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 22:59:09
This is a nice addition imo, but i think it should be used only in a formal ocassion. Here's the video example I made: [video=youtube;kj0ryBXugNo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj0ryBXugNo&feature=youtu.be[/video]
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 23:17:30
It's good, but I think the second has to be spiderspin [1234]' , because all fingers are folded.
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 23:26:19
ChainBreak wrote: It's good, but I think the second has to be spiderspin [1234]' , because all fingers are folded.
my bad, it should. EDIT: new video uploaded and posted. -
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 23:30:30
So it's just adding [1234] to the end? Does this mean the original spider spin would be notated Spider Spin fl-12 [1a2a345a] ?
-
Date: Thu, Nov 22 2012 23:45:33
it would be spider spin [23]' You could also add the [14T] behind it, but I think it's not needed, because the lack of the other fingers being notated already indicates that the rest is unfolded. For some tricks it may be important to also include the unfolded finger like in charge T3. 1 and 2 can be in any position, so notation for both may be necessary to make a clear difference between the variations. However the 4 in this trick is of close to none importance so I think notation for 4 would be unnecessary in this case.
-
Date: Fri, Nov 23 2012 11:31:51
i like this new way of break down by chainbreak :3 i ll break down fire@fox's wt11 r2 combo with this as an example :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHnye8Y9Xuw fuck it fire@fox deleted all of his previous video now to the bd: pass normal 23 - 14 > pass normal 14 23 [3'] > rev middle around 23 - 14 > tipped charge 0.25 14 - 23 > charge 23 -23 ( change from palm side to palm down ) > pass rev 23 - 34 > rev charge 34 - 34 (change from palmdown to palmside ) > aerial ring spread 34[3'] - 23 [2'] > fl pass 23 - 34 > aerial pinky spread 34 [3'] > index spread t1 > fl pass 23 - 34 > charge 34 - 34 ( change from palmside to palmdown) > pinky around 34-34 > sonic 34 - 23 > twisted sonic 23 - 12 > rev sonic 12 - 13 [2'] ( change from pdown to pside ) > switch slot ( it doesnt really have a revolution/very little rev so i just put switch slot .__. ) 13 [2'] - 14 [2'] > [B]fl pass 23[2'] - 14[23]' > raise ring finger up aka changing from 14[23]' to 14[2'] > fl pass 23[2'] - 14 [/B]> switch slot ( again it doesnt really have a revolution/very little rev ) 14 - 24> charge 24 -24 ( pside to pdown) > pass 24 - 13[2'] > pass rev 13 [2'] - 34 > angle sonic 34 - 13[2'] - 12 > pass rev 12 -t3[2'] ( change pdown - pside ) > change slot t3[2'] - 12 > spider spin 0.5 thumb pushed 12 - t3[2'] > ring spread 23[2'] > index bust fuck im so tired breaking down this combo gahhhhhh i deserve a medal or sth the bold part is called square pass x2 .________. fire@fox is a fucking genius
-
Date: Sun, Feb 10 2013 01:07:28
Good notation now I can notate the Folded and Unfolded fingers ..like the trick sonic,flush sonic.....etc...