UPSB v4
General Discussion / there is this problem about pen spinning and gender
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Date: Sun, Sep 16 2012 21:15:12
Okay guys and gals, there are a few things I have to say. This is somethings which I was told many times since I started pen spinning and it really pisses me off. The determining factor for this post was Scares video where she said that she stops spinning “because of all the sexist crap we get” and explained further: “a lot of people are saying i get my views and likes only because im a girl.“ (this is only one of the reasons she mentioned, though). Pen Spinning is a manipulative art which is concentrated a lot on the internet and this might be one of the reasons why there are so few female spinners. But even though this is an undeniable fact, these phrases which judge me and other female spinners by my gender are starting to piss me off. I hate it when I upload a combo and people post comments like “OMG you got boobs”. Female spinners are getting reduced to their gender with these comments as if there is nothing else of interest in this video. (seriously we're in the internet, why do people have to post these comments below pen spinning videos when there are way better sources). And then there are buzzwords like “I never saw a girl spinning, do something!” I didn't know that there is a difference in spinning between the genders. This is not some kind of athletic sport where you see the difference in sporting achievements when it comes to the gender. Also nice to read are comments like “you're the best female pen spinner, I know”/ ”you're my favorite female pen spinner”. I don't give a shit about being anyone's favorite female spinner because my gender has nothing to do with my spinning skills. Besides there are maybe 10 active female spinners in the world, so it is not that difficult to be the best... Unfortunately there are no female world class spinners but that is not because female spinners are worse than male spinners. The percentage of world class spinner is maybe around five percent (correct me, if I'm wrong) and the percentage of female spinners is also around 5 percent (or less). In fact, I think I know more world class spinners than female spinners... so the chance that a female spinner can be world class is lower than the chance that a male spinner can become worldclass. If you randomly pick a person out of the penspinning world it is more likely to be a world class male spinner than a female spinner at all. But there are still some retards who think that female spinners are worse than males. My wish is that people don't judge people by their gender but only concentrate on the spinning, because the gender doesn't fucking matter.
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Date: Sun, Sep 16 2012 22:42:38
hm... well unfortunately, the guys only focused on gender thing probably wont change since alot of guys are like that. but if there were more female spinners i think there would be less of these sorts of comments. ive tried to teach several girls pen spinning before but they get pretty discouraged when they find out that there arent a whole lot of active female spinners in the community... women are just as capable of pen spinning as men. for now it is interesting to see female pen spinners' videos simply because it can be somewhat of a rarity and i am slightly interested in differing styles between genders. when the time comes that women are just as prominent as men in the pen spinning world, you wont have to worry about all the sexist comments etc. but before that can happen, people need to act a little more appropriately and girl spinners should not be discouraged by male spinners who specialize in douchebaggary
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Date: Sun, Sep 16 2012 23:08:34
This should be stickied. Sadly, i'm not too surprised with the actions of the people you mention (I was probably once amazed at the thought of females participating in a predominately male hobby). The internet (and real life) is full of misogyny and sexism. The best way to stop it is to educate people, which your post definitely did. Thank you for posting this.
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Date: Sun, Sep 16 2012 23:08:50
@Fuse I agree educating fairness is always helpful in one-gender dominated sports. S777 said that there are 100,000 spinners in 2007, and 10 out of that is not 5%. I think that people will always think of girls pen spinning as different. Like boys in cheerleading. I honestly don't care for gender in sports. I never treated people wrong for gender in sports or pen spinning.
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Date: Sun, Sep 16 2012 23:20:20
astronaut wrote: @Fuse I agree educating fairness is always helpful in one-gender dominated sports.
It hasn't been in gaming. -
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2012 07:39:56
Well yeah, I agree even though I'm not a girl myself. This is mainly on the Internet though.
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Date: Mon, Sep 17 2012 21:51:25
They aren't saying that female spinners are any worse. They're just a bit surprised to see something out of the normal.
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 03:48:52
Joiemoie wrote: They're just a bit surprised to see something out of the normal.
and yet they decide to comment on that instead of the spinning itself? it's nearly as bad as the noobs who ask 'what mod?' on a video which a pro did in wt/wc and took 10 hours to film, without any comment on the spinning at all :rofl: -
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 07:39:39
I don't know who's the girl you're talking about, but she sounds a bit like a crybaby. In a male dominated pass-time females will always get more attention because they're not "just another face in the crowd", nothing you can do about it. When you get a lot of attention it means your'e getting a lot of good attention and a lot of bad attention, but that's just because that's the nature of people, especially over the internet. You just gotta suck it up, get better and prove all the haters wrong. Also I don't think you should be mad at someone complimenting you saying "you're my favorite female spinner", just take it like it is, at least you're not their least favorite female spinner. By the way, you're my favorite female spinner! (I don't know any other female spinners) edit: oh just wondering. guys sometimes get comments on their videos "oh I bet you can really pleasure the ladies ;)". what kind of comments do you get? (her youtube account says she's 108 years old, sorry if she's 14)
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 07:49:58
shoeman wrote: Also I don't think you should be mad at someone complimenting you saying "you're my favorite female spinner", just take it like it is
I think she's angry because that's a backhanded compliment. -
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 11:19:34
[QUOTE="Joiemoie"]They aren't saying that female spinners are any worse. They're just a bit surprised to see something out of the normal.[/QUOTE] Nope there are really people who think that. [QUOTE="shoeman"]In a male dominated pass-time females will always get more attention because they're not "just another face in the crowd", nothing you can do about it. When you get a lot of attention it means your'e getting a lot of good attention and a lot of bad attention, but that's just because that's the nature of people, especially over the internet.[/QUOTE] I won't deny that. And it is not that people makes these comments only for the purpose of annoying me (at least most of them^^). it is just that they don't think anything bad when they say these things and i wanna make them realize how annoying it is for female spinners when they say these things. if we don't say that we feel discriminated with these comments and suck it up, nothing ever changes. (and they're being said once in a while, not every day and constantly, but every time someone says that to me, i get the feeling that they don't take me and my spinning seriously but only reduce me on my gender). is it wrong to try to change that? also why do we have to endure such things, only so that the people who're responsible for this problem don't have to change themselves. [QUOTE="shoeman"]Also I don't think you should be mad at someone complimenting you saying "you're my favorite female spinner", just take it like it is, at least you're not their least favorite female spinner. By the way, you're my favorite female spinner! (I don't know any other female spinners)[/QUOTE] Sorry but did you even read what i wrote in my first post? "I don't give a shit about being anyone's favorite female spinner because my gender has nothing to do with my spinning skills. Besides there are maybe 10 active female spinners in the world, so it is not that difficult to be the best..." Is it that hard to understand? Also you contradict yourself in this post by saying that you don't even know any other female spinners? what makes me special then, if you don't even know any other female spinners? I'm 19. (: I get comments like the ones, i mentioned in my first post (especially the boob comments and "but don't worry you're the best german female spinner" which is such a great comment).
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 12:10:12
Nashi wrote: Sorry but did you even read what i wrote in my first post? "I don't give a shit about being anyone's favorite female spinner because my gender has nothing to do with my spinning skills. Besides there are maybe 10 active female spinners in the world, so it is not that difficult to be the best..." Is it that hard to understand? Also you contradict yourself in this post by saying that you don't even know any other female spinners? what makes me special then, if you don't even know any other female spinners?
I'm glad you understood the contradiction (how can I have a favorite when I only know one?). I'm sad you couldn't understand that it was a joke... -
Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 12:25:57
Oh excuse me that i didn't see the irony in that one. Must be because i have my menstruation...not. oh such a good joke, isn't it.
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Date: Tue, Sep 18 2012 12:44:24
Ok psycho..
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Date: Wed, Sep 19 2012 04:06:31
I have yet to see this since I'm new, but i would totally agree about this subject on another topic such as sports or in the workplace. But this happens everywhere in the world, some places even more extreme cases. I guess the world is 'male' dominant and females are shunned out or '2nd tiered' and whenever a female does something where the majority are males it would thought as our of the norm.
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Date: Wed, Sep 19 2012 04:12:34
hahahaha girls on the internet. Thats a good one.
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Date: Wed, Sep 19 2012 04:14:07
Lol girl or boy spinner makes no difference imo
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Date: Thu, Sep 20 2012 22:34:43
Hey Nashi http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-07-09-anita-sarkeesian Please read this. After my not-so-serious (read: insulting) post in GPC, I feel obligated to make a serious post on this, not only because you seem to take this very seriously but also because I consider myself well informed on this debate and therefore have a desire to shove my opinion in everyones faces (the usual stuff). You are a female penspinner who revealed her gender in public. You made this thread, everyone can see your body due to your camera angle, hell - you even start your self-description with the sentence "Yes, I am a girl. (amazing, isn't it?)". Well yes, it is amazing. You are one of very few females in this scene. Yet you want people to judge your spinning independently, something that I feel is impossible. You can't just tell people to watch a video under certain circumstances. Like "please only analyze the spinning, even though my tits are in the picture which means that I'm a potential sexual partner, you lonely nerd!". Boys will be boys, reducing females to their gender. And on the internet, everyone is and will ever be a anti-feminist asshole, only looking opportunities like this. This will never change as long as this scene is dominated by males. Or at least it hasn't in any other comparable case ever. Furthermore, by shoving it in everyones faces that you are a girl, you are contradicting the pursuit for equality. Yes you are a girl, get over it! I feel that the only solution is to hide the gender altogether. I know that there are many gamer girls who do that (see the post I linked), because if they don't, they quickly become either a target for lonely nerds or a subject of ridicule (look at me, gurl gamer xD). I know for a fact that there are penspinning girls on world-class level but you wouldn't know because you aren't as hipster as I am (plus you are probably not a lonely nerd who investigates such a matter) and they are hiding their gender rather successfully. I'm also aware that it is too late for you, or rather your online identity, to hide your gender - but I encourage you and every female spinner to create multi-accounts if they really want people to see the spinning for what it actually is. In your case unsmooth and unstylish but difficult, creative and complicated linkages that remind us of the early kirua and wuschelkopp. Also you are not my favorite female penspinner but still top 5. /EDIT: Yes I don't like Dan Pearson and I hate Anita Sarkeesian and everyone on feministfrequency. Also every so called "feminist" on the internet and anywhere in the world.
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Date: Fri, Sep 21 2012 00:23:20
I've always been surprised that there are so few female spinners because I'm pretty sure females generally have more manual dexterity and hand-eye coordination than guys do. If an even number of both sexes were penspinners, I think that we would see many more female world-class spinners than male ones.
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Date: Fri, Sep 21 2012 01:27:07
@Nashi Out of curiosity, why do you even care if people make sexist comments on your videos? Most of these people are 14/15/16 year olds. You're 19. Who cares about what they think. They're still in school and they still have a lot to learn.