UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / How religious are you?
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 20:03:38
[COLOR="Silver"]I already did this in the GPC last year. I'm curious how the result will look like in an international community.[/COLOR] [SIZE="4"]How religious are you?[/SIZE] In case you never thought about that and/or are unsure about the meanings of some terms I'll explain them here shortly and also link to wikipedia articles. [B]Religious fundamentalism[/B] (Wikipedia) The unconditional belief in what the current representatives of a religion proclaim as facts and rules. or The unconditional belief in the exact wording of a holy scripture. [B]Theocracy[/B] (Wikipedia) The belief in a god/gods (and a holy scripture if the religion is based on one) and the conviction that the own religion has to gain sovereignty. [B]Theism[/B] (Wikipedia) The belief in a god/gods and a holy scripture. [B]Deism[/B] (Wikipedia) The belief in a god/gods but no holy scripture. [B]Pantheism[/B] (Wikipedia) The belief that god can be recognized in all phenomena in the world/is everything/is everywhere/can be equated with the universe itself. [B]Agnosticism[/B] (Wikipedia) The opinion, that the question about the existence of gods can't be answered and therefore is futile. [B]Ignosticism[/B] (Wikipedia) The opinion, that without a definition of it's subject a discussion is senseless. Since there's no usable definition of any god, gods or any supernatural thing there can be no serious discussion about their existence. [B]Atheism[/B] (Wikipedia) The non-belief in gods/supernatural stuff/etc. The opinion that gods/supernatural stuff/etc. can't be disproved but it's very likely that they don't exist. [B]Antitheism[/B] (Wikipedia) The profound conviction that things like gods do not exist, religion is a bad thing and should actively be countered. [SIZE="4"][B]Important Notes:[/B][/SIZE] [B]Descriptions[/B] The short descriptions are written by me and may be fairly imprecise. Additionally my English may not be the best so there could be strange formulations. If the description is crap: please view the Wikipedia article. ; ) [B]Why the possibility to choose more than one option?[/B] Since you could be unsure and there can be precise attitudes that fit two groups or stand between two groups you have the possibility to choose more than one option. [B][COLOR="Red"]Respecting different attitudes and encouraging intelectual honesty[/COLOR][/B] Please keep in mind: Your beliefs are personal and you don't need to justify them. But as soon as you start to discuss with others you need to respect logic. Certain reasons that might seem sound when justifying a belief to yourself are simply not valid when you're trying to establish existence calims to other people, however passionaly you express them. Feel free to describe your precise attitude and what you voted in the comments.
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 20:07:38
i guess atheism because i cant believe in god, just not possible in my mind And religion is just so stupid and ignorant imo
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 20:12:07
[x] Ignosticist ([x] Atheist) I refert to myself as an ignostic or — if i let myself in for a discussion about some vague definded transcendent being — an atheist.
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 20:15:40
Agnostic atheist I guess, if you want to get specific. let's just say I'm agnostic and call it a day. something deep inside me tells me there aren't many religious guys here.
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 22:10:40
I suppose im a theist by what the description says. though some of the things in the bible i believe should be taken literally.
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 23:22:18
none of those mention more than one god. I'm buddhist, i believe in godsssss!
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Date: Mon, Aug 9 2010 23:42:23
RdHg wrote: none of those mention more than one god. I'm buddhist, i believe in godsssss!
Oh ... sorry that's my poor descriptions failing. : / If you believe in one or more gods: theism or deism. If you believe in a holy scripture -> theism. If not -> holy scripture. I'm going to rewrite the descriptions. -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 00:25:49
RdHg wrote: none of those mention more than one god. I'm buddhist, i believe in godsssss!
Really? I was always led to believe that Buddhists don't believe in gods. -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 00:25:56
I believe you shouldn't have to fall under a religious affiliation because what your moral perceptions of life are.
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 00:27:14
Dudak wrote: Really? I was always led to believe that Buddhists don't believe in gods.
Being a Buddhist is all about believing what you want to believe. -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 00:39:41
iMatt wrote: I believe you shouldn't have to fall under a religious affiliation because what your moral perceptions of life are.
Is your comment related to another post? If not: this thread simply is about "What do you think about the existence of god(s)?" Do your beliefs concerning god(s) base on a religion or holy scripture? Do you just belief in god(s) your own way w/o any religion or holy scripture? Do you have concerns? Do you think the question about the existence of divine beings is futile? etc. Nobody talked about moral perceptions. -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 01:01:07
IllDepence wrote: Is your comment related to another post? If not: this thread simply is about "What do you think about the existence of god(s)?" Do your beliefs concerning god(s) base on a religion or holy scripture? Do you just belief in god(s) your own way w/o any religion or holy scripture? Do you have concerns? Do you think the question about the existence of divine beings is futile? etc. Nobody talked about moral perceptions.
Your thread mis-titled. How religious are you refers to how heavy you practice your religious affiliation not what's your religion. Your question has nothing to do with what you're asking on the poll. My statement fits perfectly fine in with what you're discussing which is "What do you think about the existence of god(s)". The way you have it polled is that everyone must fall under any of your listed categories. -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 10:40:16
Hm ... could be that I just lack English skills. xD Let me explain how I see my thread and poll. Maybe we can expose potential flaws in my formulations and thoughts this way. When I ask "How religious are you?" I suppose I'm asking for the level of religiosity/religiousness. If you wanted to compress the whole poll to a yes/no question it would be "Are you a religious person?". They way I made the poll is just more precise and gives a range of possible "levels" of religiosity. (I at least think so. If the religiosity is primarily used to express something different than "how strong your beliefs in a religion/god(s)/supernatural things are", then that's where the error is.) So ... I ask how religions you are and the poll offers several choices describing different 'stages/levels' of religiosity. Some one may storngly belief in a religion, others may have quit the religion they were 'born in' and now simply have their own and personal thougts and beliefs concerning god(s) and/or spiritual stuff, others again may simply not care about the questions about divine beings and yet others may stronly counter religion. Could it be that you think, asking for religiosity only makes sense if ones beliefs relate to a precise religion? (Which isn't necessarily the case for deists, pantheists, agnostics, ignostics and atheists.) If so: in my opinion every thought about god(s)/divine beings is religions, even if you don't refer to a group of believers. The Wikipedia article on religions says: "Religion is the belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, [...]" so ... the way I see it the poll fits my question ... if not, please show me where I made a mistake.
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 12:13:44
100% Atheism
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 12:49:12
penis
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 14:16:24
very well put yanos, i agree completely
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 14:47:38
religious fundamentalist
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Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 19:03:12
neoknux_009 wrote: religious fundamentalist
You, too? -
Date: Tue, Aug 10 2010 19:22:23
0,0% religious.
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Date: Thu, Aug 12 2010 01:36:37
obviously theist
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Date: Thu, Aug 12 2010 02:09:23
Very.
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Date: Wed, Aug 18 2010 06:31:01
Same ^
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Date: Sat, Aug 21 2010 04:24:39
Resonance wrote: something deep inside me tells me there aren't many religious guys here.
This. I remember i made a poll with just 3 options a while ago. it was like Are you an 1. atheist 2. agnostic 3. other. hahahhaaa -
Date: Sat, Aug 21 2010 04:42:12
agnostic atheist...? ill go with resonance and say agnostic ;)
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Date: Sat, Aug 21 2010 04:48:19
Just to let everyone know, agnosticism is not inbetween atheism and theism. It's the train of thought that says the existence of a higher power cannot be known. The opposite, of couse is gnosticism.
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Date: Sun, Aug 22 2010 03:56:18
nateiskewl wrote: Just to let everyone know, agnosticism is not inbetween atheism and theism. It's the train of thought that says the existence of a higher power cannot be known. The opposite, of couse is gnosticism.
Not sure about that definition of agnosticism.... The one I see more commonly used is that agnosticism simply means the lack of knowledge. So when applied to atheism, as in: ag·nos·tic --- a·the·ist: A person who holds the view that the existence of a deity is currently unkown, but personally leans towards the idea of there not being one. By the by, i'm a tad bit hi right now, so please excuse my shitty syntax/grammar and sorry if this reply sounded bitchy lolz -
Date: Tue, Sep 7 2010 21:49:12
Antitheist and atheist
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Date: Tue, Sep 7 2010 22:29:12
Agnostic. I also believe in the ancient alien theory, its also good to see that there are more people to not be afraid to stand up to organised religion. It pisses me off sometimes. But i guess i do believe in A god, but he has to me almighty and not interfere with civilizations or evolution etc. I think he created the Big bang then left, everything else has a logical explanation, IMO.
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Date: Thu, Sep 9 2010 01:59:22
CrackerJack wrote: Agnostic. I also believe in the ancient alien theory, its also good to see that there are more people to not be afraid to stand up to organised religion. It pisses me off sometimes. But i guess i do believe in A god, but he has to me almighty and not interfere with civilizations or evolution etc. I think he created the Big bang then left, everything else has a logical explanation, IMO.
tl;dr You're 12. -
Date: Thu, Sep 9 2010 02:03:02
@CrackerJack You believe in a deist god.
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Date: Thu, Sep 9 2010 02:20:07
A god made the big bang... the fuck?
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Date: Thu, Sep 9 2010 02:26:46
I am like agnostic theist right now, if that makes sense.
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Date: Thu, Sep 9 2010 03:24:12
Awesome wrote: I am like agnostic theist right now, if that makes sense.
TRANSLATION: There might not be a god, but if there is, then I'm sucking his dick real good. -
Date: Sun, Sep 12 2010 20:19:26
CrackerJack wrote: Agnostic. I also believe in the ancient alien theory, its also good to see that there are more people to not be afraid to stand up to organised religion. It pisses me off sometimes. But i guess i do believe in A god, but he has to me almighty and not interfere with civilizations or evolution etc. I think he created the Big bang then left, everything else has a logical explanation, IMO.
It doesn't have an explanation, therefor it must be metaphysical :rolleyes: -
Date: Thu, Sep 16 2010 23:29:56
Ya, of course I'm religious. I believe in a man up in the sky with almighty powers and can change the world to make it a better place. He helps people, and his name is Clark Kent.
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Date: Fri, Sep 17 2010 01:21:35
sadistic wrote: It doesn't have an explanation, therefor it must be metaphysical :rolleyes:
Thats not how it works. There is no explanation, therefore I [B]believe[/B] it is metaphysical. Also - Thats what I believe. Cosmological argument, god as the first cause. I am aware of all the flaws and of course I'm still sceptic. In the end, I will probably change my mind when someone explains me how something can happen without a cause. -
Date: Mon, Sep 20 2010 14:51:36
taichi1082 wrote: In the end, I will probably change my mind when someone explains me how something can happen without a cause.
Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo A great talk by Lawrence Krauss about how the universe may have come to exist from simply nothing. -
Date: Tue, Sep 21 2010 18:27:21
taichi1082 wrote: Thats not how it works. There is no explanation, therefore I [B]believe[/B] it is metaphysical. Also - Thats what I believe. Cosmological argument, god as the first cause. I am aware of all the flaws and of course I'm still sceptic. In the end, I will probably change my mind when someone explains me how something can happen without a cause.
So if you don't know, why not be agnostic on the subject rather than believing in that particular position? -
Date: Tue, Sep 21 2010 18:58:04
sadistic wrote: So if you don't know, why not be agnostic on the subject rather than believing in that particular position?
That might be a question of definition. I am agnostic, because I know that I can't know it for sure. I am believing because it's the only explanation I can think of. And thank you Illdepence. That was a really interesting presentation. Though I didn't understood everything and I'll have to look some stuff up. By the way, the guy looks/sounds like Leonard from BBT 8) -
Date: Tue, Sep 21 2010 19:25:45
You're welcome. Another thing:
taichi1082 wrote: [B]god as the first cause[/B]. [...] I will probably change my mind when someone explains me how something can [B]happen without a cause[/B].
You said you were aware of the flaws. But I think this one is huge: the thing you are asking for to reject your belief ("how something can happen without a cause") is essential for the theory of a first cause. A first cause would be something without any cause. Either you accept things occur without a cause (which isn't even needed to explain the universe — see Lawrence Krauss' talk) and therefore need no more god. Or you reject the idea and think about some everlasting circle of existence which also needs no god. -
Date: Mon, Nov 29 2010 06:23:46
You all are going to be raped by the possum god Mr. Wiggles.
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Date: Mon, Nov 29 2010 07:14:33
n00b wrote: You all are going to be raped by the possum god Mr. Wiggles.
HAHAHA You are the funniest guys I know :'D -
Date: Mon, Nov 29 2010 18:11:55
n00b wrote: You all are going to be raped by the possum god Mr. Wiggles.
Mr. Wiggles is a pig ... -
Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 04:02:07
I'm an atheist. It's the option with the most logic behind it. The whole idea of "faith" is idiotic; people think of it as a virtue, but the whole idea of it is devoting yourself to something without evidence or proof.
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Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 04:10:54
Lightningpen wrote: I'm an atheist. It's the option with the most logic behind it. The whole idea of "faith" is idiotic; people think of it as a virtue, but the whole idea of it is devoting yourself to something without evidence or proof.
There are fulfilled prophecies, the advice given is well ahead of its time in some cases, and for those that are religious it can bring them a great deal of joy, happiness, and fulfillment. To not believe in something cuz its not "real" is missing the point, you should believe in something because it benefits you, granted religion is not for everyone. The placebo effect can be very powerful by itself! -
Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 11:28:58
im a muslimmm, the only here i think
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Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 18:26:44
eazi-penspinner wrote: im a muslimmm, the only here i think
pretty sure we have more muslims around. Wonder and Light to name a few including myself. I am guessing I am a theist ? -
Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 20:39:01
Lightningpen wrote: I'm an atheist. It's the option with the most logic behind it. The whole idea of "faith" is idiotic; people think of it as a virtue, but the whole idea of it is devoting yourself to something without evidence or proof.
This is a common misconception because faith is not blind devotion but the conviction that something you cannot see is true, whether it's in the past, present or future. There's a difference in believing in something in the absence of evidence and believing in something that has been proven false. There is such thing as a reasonable faith, i.e. one that is grounded in evidence. But given that such claims can't be verified empirically, the evidence is open to subjective interpretation, which leads to differences in opinion. -
Date: Sat, Jun 11 2011 20:57:43
Awesome wrote: There are fulfilled prophecies, the advice given is well ahead of its time in some cases, and for those that are religious it can bring them a great deal of joy, happiness, and fulfillment. To not believe in something cuz its not "real" is missing the point, you should believe in something because it benefits you, granted religion is not for everyone. The placebo effect can be very powerful by itself!
hehe, you're awesome -
Date: Wed, Jun 22 2011 22:57:39
Awesome;105531]There are fulfilled prophecies, the advice given is well ahead of its time in some cases, and for those that are religious it can bring them a great deal of joy, happiness, and fulfillment. To not believe in something cuz its not "real" is missing the point, you should believe in something because it benefits you, granted religion is not for everyone. The placebo effect can be very powerful by itself![/QUOTE] I don't think that the placebo affect, when its benefits are derived from medical situations, can be applicable to religion. For example, it is perfectly fine to rely on belief if say, you have cancer and you believe that you can defeat it. That is a situation when hope can physically improve things. However, this reasoning is not universally applicable. For instance, if you are German, you could pretend that the Holocaust didn't happen because it makes you feel better about your country, but in the process you would be completely ignoring facts and evidence, not to mention the fates of the millions of people that were killed and tortured. Religion is not like either of those examples. Although religion may make some people "feel" better, it teaches people to be satisfied with not understanding the world. People may sometimes feel happier by having an answer for the unknown, but that means they won't try discover the real answer for themselves. Questions like: "How old is the universe?", "How was it created?", "How was the Earth made?", and "How did life as we know it come to be?" were previously considered "unknowable". Therefore, people picked a random number for the first question, then said "God did it," for the rest. But now, through science, people have explored these questions and arrived at well-researched, well-documented evidence for the answers. If people would have been content to live in happy ignorance, we would have never sought the truth, and would have therefore never discovered anything new. It's like arguing that we should all drink beer for the rest of our lives because a drunk man is happier than a sober man. The happiness is a cheap, worthless replacement for an active mind. [QUOTE=Tialys wrote: This is a common misconception because faith is not blind devotion but the conviction that something you cannot see is true, whether it's in the past, present or future. There's a difference in believing in something in the absence of evidence and believing in something that has been proven false. There is such thing as a reasonable faith, i.e. one that is grounded in evidence. But given that such claims can't be verified empirically, the evidence is open to subjective interpretation, which leads to differences in opinion.
It's true, you can regard something you can't see as true, and you can believe in something in the absence of evidence. But it isn't logical. In logical terms, it is the positive, not the negative, that bears the burden of proof. That's why we have the rule of "innocent until proven guilty". If I were to tell you that there was human/rabbit hybrid living somewhere in Montana, you'd probably expect me to show multiple pictures/videos of the creature, or perhaps you'd want to see it in person. If I wanted to convince you, I would then have to display such evidence. However, it would be utterly irrational to expect you to prove to me that it didn't exist by exploring every inch of Montana. The same situation applies to the assertion of God's existence. In fact, we are both atheists; I just believe in one fewer god than you do. I don't believe in God for the same reason you don't believe in Zeus or Marduk. -
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 16:28:29
Wonder wrote: i guess atheism because i cant believe in god, just not possible in my mind And religion is just so stupid and ignorant imo
yes^ thats how i fell too. wish i didint but there is no way i can nor will ever belive in him. -
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 07:24:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-kvw1fYXs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIMFz5ZKDVo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0&feature=related after watching those ^^^^ vids, and still believe in jesus, you're an idiot I'm agnostic, I believe there is a "god", but I think he shouldn't be known as a "god", just some powerful supernatural being/alien, in which his powers might actually be normal in their planet. Science already proved how moses did those shitty miracles, heck magicians could turn staffs into snakes, why can't moses? or if there is no god at all or supernatural being, it's either that we really are inside another being's brain, and that being is also inside another being's brain
religions are just stories, as well as other "historical data", how the hell did they know that dinosaurs lived billion years ago? how did they know the stories of the roman & greek empire? are they sure those shit are real? those shit they discovered might actually be stories made up by the greeks / romans lol, and idk the new testament was written in greek, so how can it be true when greeks have their own gods. The new testament is just plagiarized from egypt
to all religious people/"christians/catholics":
you smoke, party, watch porn, dress extravagantly, go fuck yourselves,fuckin hypocrites, thats not what the bible teaches, stop praying, faggots. -
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 07:47:54
Clyde wrote: to all religious people/"christians/catholics": you smoke, party, watch porn, dress extravagantly, go fuck yourselves,fuckin hypocrites, thats not what the bible teaches, stop praying, faggots.
um i know Catholics and christians and im pretty sure they dont party and smoke, so i dont know where you getting this information from bro, but its wrong. -
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 08:09:54
Damn. I have never been more confused about anything in my life before. Its been like some months, I have been trying to decide whether to believe in god or not. Reading stuff, watch videos etc. etc. I have come to the conclusion where I have decided to live life by my morals. Science doesn't really have a proper explanation as to how we got here and our origin so I will continue to believe in God even if I don't agree with some of the stuff.
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Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 09:07:37
AoD1 wrote: um i know Catholics and christians and im pretty sure they dont party and smoke, so i dont know where you getting this information from bro, but its wrong.
ok so only filipinos are hypocrites, cuz everyone partys, smokes, do drugs, then later they post on fb status : thank god, god is good, i love god, blalbalba -.- -
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 09:15:15
If I were to throw away what I believe in just by watching the videos which btw don't make a lot sense at all I wouldn't have had a firm believe anyways. There a lot of people that only say what they ,,believe'' in, but they don't really mean it. There are also a lot of people not following the rules of the bible does that make every single one of us bad people? Of course we all make mistakes and we always do something that goes against the bible, but that is why Jesus came to help us. God cannot back down on his word so humanity had to face the result of sins which is death. But because of his love to us he send us his son to carry the burden that we had accumulated in our lives and he as human and god is the only one who can carry the human's sins and not break under it. This is what I believe in and noone can change this fact. To these videos: If you make this comparison between Horus and Jesus you should take into account that maybe the Horus that people believed in was actually a part of God which they seperated from the rest and gave a name to. This is how I think that these kinds of religions were created. They could and would not believe that one being could hold that much power so they devided it into many. But I still believe what they actually believed in was part of god. Even if they got some things wrong and did many things I do not approve of. I am actually noone to judge other people, because I am full of mistakes and failures myself. How can someone as imperfect as me judge anyway. Well I may not be able to judge, but I can still present my belief and show you what I think is correct and what is wrong. Even though most of the time I make a lot of mistakes I trust that god will lead me so I'm not afraid of any rage you throw at me. That is what I learned x]
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Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 09:26:55
nope jesus = fake horus
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Date: Sat, Jul 23 2011 22:57:54"When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, thinking ability itself will keep guard over you" (Proverbs 2:10,11) It seems like you are arguing against the common notion of Christianity, and not the bible itself. Not to mention there are a lot more religions then just Christianity; to say religion is stupid cuz Christians say whatever is a gross simplification. Besides all these "new discoveries" are really fucking up the planet. Hooray for global warming, over population, and landfills. sorry for the late reply, I didn't really see this thread pop up again.
Spoiler
Lightningpen wrote: I don't think that the placebo affect, when its benefits are derived from medical situations, can be applicable to religion. For example, it is perfectly fine to rely on belief if say, you have cancer and you believe that you can defeat it. That is a situation when hope can physically improve things. However, this reasoning is not universally applicable. For instance, if you are German, you could pretend that the Holocaust didn't happen because it makes you feel better about your country, but in the process you would be completely ignoring facts and evidence, not to mention the fates of the millions of people that were killed and tortured. Religion is not like either of those examples. Although religion may make some people "feel" better, it teaches people to be satisfied with not understanding the world. People may sometimes feel happier by having an answer for the unknown, but that means they won't try discover the real answer for themselves. Questions like: "How old is the universe?", "How was it created?", "How was the Earth made?", and "How did life as we know it come to be?" were previously considered "unknowable". Therefore, people picked a random number for the first question, then said "God did it," for the rest. But now, through science, people have explored these questions and arrived at well-researched, well-documented evidence for the answers. If people would have been content to live in happy ignorance, we would have never sought the truth, and would have therefore never discovered anything new. It's like arguing that we should all drink beer for the rest of our lives because a drunk man is happier than a sober man. The happiness is a cheap, worthless replacement for an active mind. It's true, you can regard something you can't see as true, and you can believe in something in the absence of evidence. But it isn't logical. In logical terms, it is the positive, not the negative, that bears the burden of proof. That's why we have the rule of "innocent until proven guilty". If I were to tell you that there was human/rabbit hybrid living somewhere in Montana, you'd probably expect me to show multiple pictures/videos of the creature, or perhaps you'd want to see it in person. If I wanted to convince you, I would then have to display such evidence. However, it would be utterly irrational to expect you to prove to me that it didn't exist by exploring every inch of Montana. The same situation applies to the assertion of God's existence. In fact, we are both atheists; I just believe in one fewer god than you do. I don't believe in God for the same reason you don't believe in Zeus or Marduk.
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Date: Sun, Jul 24 2011 00:10:36
I believe in the flying spaghetti monster! RAmen!
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Date: Sun, Jul 24 2011 00:15:33
The Bible? Let's listen to what the God of the Bible has to say, “Say to them: ‘This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Every wineskin should be filled with wine.’ And if they say to you, ‘Don’t we know that every wineskin should be filled with wine?’ 13 then tell them, ‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to fill with drunkenness all who live in this land, including the kings who sit on David’s throne, the priests, the prophets and all those living in Jerusalem. 14 I will smash them one against the other, parents and children alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.’” (Jeremiah 13:12-14) G'deal, God's gonna get me fuuuuuucked up. @Awesome, if you want to have anything meaningful to say about knowledge and the love of knowledge, read the great epistemologists of Greece, France, Germany, and England. To name a few, Plato, Socrates, Xeno—lots of the Greeks of Elea. Camus, Sartre, Descartes, Voltaire. Kant, Nietzsche, Berkeley. Russell, Hume, Locke. Delve into the real issues of rationalist/empiricist thought and stop repeating trite, meaningless, semantically useless scripture—whether it be Christian, Hindu, or Muslim. Wear your hat, on your hip, square like me.
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Date: Sun, Jul 24 2011 05:44:46
surge is cool
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Date: Sun, Jul 24 2011 16:24:06
Surge wrote: The Bible? Let's listen to what the God of the Bible has to say, “Say to them: ‘This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Every wineskin should be filled with wine.’ And if they say to you, ‘Don’t we know that every wineskin should be filled with wine?’ 13 then tell them, ‘This is what the LORD says: I am going to fill with drunkenness all who live in this land, including the kings who sit on David’s throne, the priests, the prophets and all those living in Jerusalem. 14 I will smash them one against the other, parents and children alike, declares the LORD. I will allow no pity or mercy or compassion to keep me from destroying them.’” (Jeremiah 13:12-14) G'deal, God's gonna get me fuuuuuucked up. @Awesome, if you want to have anything meaningful to say about knowledge and the love of knowledge, read the great epistemologists of Greece, France, Germany, and England. To name a few, Plato, Socrates, Xeno—lots of the Greeks of Elea. Camus, Sartre, Descartes, Voltaire. Kant, Nietzsche, Berkeley. Russell, Hume, Locke. Delve into the real issues of rationalist/empiricist thought and stop repeating trite, meaningless, semantically useless scripture—whether it be Christian, Hindu, or Muslim. Wear your hat, on your hip, square like me.
but then thats real philosophy, and not religious discussion. I thought religious discussion was all about quoting trite scriptures, this thread is supposed to be about religion after all. -
Date: Mon, Jul 25 2011 13:42:18
TheAafg wrote: Science doesn't really have a proper explanation as to how we got here and our origin so I will continue to believe in God even if I don't agree with some of the stuff.
It sure is more plausible than whatever the bible has got going on. -
Date: Mon, Jul 25 2011 22:02:00
TheAafg wrote: Damn. I have never been more confused about anything in my life before. Its been like some months, I have been trying to decide whether to believe in god or not. Reading stuff, watch videos etc. etc. I have come to the conclusion where I have decided to live life by my morals. Science doesn't really have a proper explanation as to how we got here and our origin so I will continue to believe in God even if I don't agree with some of the stuff.
Ah, the classic argument from ignorance... [video=youtube;U6QYDdgP9eg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg[/video] -
Date: Mon, Jul 25 2011 22:36:06
theist, religious fundamentalist Whether you believe in science or nothing at all, we should all learn to accept(tolerate :P) each other.....like that'll ever happen. meh.
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Date: Wed, Jul 27 2011 02:31:40
The Bible is bullshit, as well as other religions since most are only copied/plagiarized from Egypt. Science is indeed inaccurate at times, especially when it comes to shit that are billion years old, but it's more reliable than this "God/Jesus" horse shit. People keep saying that God doesn't have all the time in the world to answer our prayers, can't listen to everyone at once etc etc. Why? Is he HUMAN? NO. He's a GOD, right? So if he's a GOD, he shouldn't have any trouble granting everyone's prayers. My belief though is if God was real, he'd just be sitting there fapping to Mary Magdalene porn or fucking Mama Mary and not giving a fuck about anyone because he's God, he wouldn't get any benefit by helping us. I just think it's impossible for the biblical god/God/Yahweh to be real since the stories of the Bible are exactly the same as it was interpreted in Egypt, just different names, but as for the events, miracles, all are the same. Also, how about heaven and hell? The Bible says it's in the skies/clouds or just paradise after you die, and hell is in the deepest part of the Earth or just eternal suffering. What would happen to aliens? What if there are no animals/trees in their planet? what if there are no clouds? So this means that the biblical God only has power on Earth? not on other planets? Does this mean aliens just experience nothingness? Sorry, religion really is bullshit and contradicting science too much. Science even discovered how Moses did his miracles(if ever he is real)
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Date: Wed, Jul 27 2011 03:06:08
If he were all to do that (fap to porn and fuck whoever), then he'll be just be a hypocrite to his own words/promises. You see, in my understanding, God doesn't just do anything he wants or grant every prayers/requests made because there will be nothing but chaos as a result. Plus, it's not that he doesn't answer prayers. I think he answers them with a Yes, a No, or a Wait. Yes, well, it means yes. No, well it might mean that it isn't really meant for you/ perhaps there are better things for you. Wait, is well, he might mean that request of your to happen, but not at the moment. For heaven and hell, those what you have said are perhaps metaphorical statements to what he wanted to express. I don't know how I would react, but what if he was going to explain both in concepts we are incapable of grasping? I mean, I dunno how to word it, but if he is not to associate it with something we can understand (the skies/clouds, the deepest part of Earth, etc), will we able to understand him more? This doesn't mean though that God has only power on the earth nor does he not have on other planets. Well, "who" or "what" could've created the entire universe? The Big Bang? :dunno: surely something created it and, being the creator, has authority over it. http://www.odec.ca/projects/2004/khak4a0/public_html/problems.html http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/133-the-big-bang-theory-vs-gods-word As for extraterrestrials, I don't if there has been a concrete evidence of such, but I think that they are just fallen angels (or demons) disguised to be such "aliens". As for it being plagiarized by Egypt, I don't see where you're getting that from. and Surge, I don't think quoting only 1 verse out of a whole chapter is going to define the whole book itself. :? just my thoughts. EDIT: also, the christians you see who drink, party, etc,etc really aren't true christians. :/ because if they are really truthful that they believe God and all his words and truths, then there would some major change in their lives in accordance to obeying God's rules, not just temporarily, but permanently. To see them still in their previous lifestyle then proves that they are not true christians or they are not taking their commitment seriously. :?
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Date: Wed, Jul 27 2011 05:21:34
chrisPS;120447]If he were all to do that (fap to porn and fuck whoever), then he'll be just be a hypocrite to his own words/promises. You see, in my understanding, God doesn't just do anything he wants or grant every prayers/requests made because there will be nothing but chaos as a result. Plus, it's not that he doesn't answer prayers. I think he answers them with a Yes, a No, or a Wait. Yes, well, it means yes. No, well it might mean that it isn't really meant for you/ perhaps there are better things for you. Wait, is well, he might mean that request of your to happen, but not at the moment.[/QUOTE] God, the omniscient, omnipotent "prime mover" of the universe, who declares himself (admittedly through the dubious words of others) to have HIS will accomplished, his eternal, unchanging will — (Isaiah 46:9-11) , (Romans 9:19-26), (Ephesians 1:4-8) , (Revelation 4:9-13) But wait. There's you—little, sniffling worm-of-a-creature! And guess what, listen up kids, cuz this is where it gets good. You can alter his plan! All you have to do is ask. You see, God's funny that way. If you get on your knees and beg him, you might just inform him of something he otherwise would have overlooked, for your benefit! Don't miss this opportunity folks, cuz it ends as soon as you're dead. Ask now, before it's too late. Knee bruising and cognitive dissonance not included! [QUOTE=chrisPS;120447] For heaven and hell, those what you have said are perhaps metaphorical statements to what he wanted to express. I don't know how I would react, but what if he was going to explain both in concepts we are incapable of grasping? I mean, I dunno how to word it, but if he is not to associate it with something we can understand (the skies/clouds, the deepest part of Earth, etc), will we able to understand him more? This doesn't mean though that God has only power on the earth nor does he not have on other planets. Well, "who" or "what" could've created the entire universe? The Big Bang? :dunno: surely something created it and, being the creator, has authority over it. http://www.odec.ca/projects/2004/khak4a0/public_html/problems.html http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/133-the-big-bang-theory-vs-gods-word [/QUOTE] Your stupidity here is stunning. First, the big bang is not a creation moment in the sense of matter and energy coming into existence, so wipe the egg off your face, little boy. Second, read the first section of David Hume's "An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding." What you're talking about is far more complex than you assume, it gets into causality ex nihilo, and all sorts of other things. However, generally, it's best to just suspend judgment that seems logical according to the physical laws that currently govern reality from a time, when most definitely, such laws did not apply. [QUOTE=chrisPS;120447] As for extraterrestrials, I don't if there has been a concrete evidence of such, but I think that they are just fallen angels (or demons) disguised to be such "aliens". As for it being plagiarized by Egypt, I don't see where you're getting that from. and Surge, I don't think quoting only 1 verse out of a whole chapter is going to define the whole book itself. :? just my thoughts. [/QUOTE] My purpose was to define the entire Bible? Woah there Chrissy, get your boots out 'eh them stirrups, you ain't done checked your saddle. That was obviously not my intention, straw man me more bruh, but gimme some good whiskey first. ;) [QUOTE=chrisPS wrote: EDIT: also, the christians you see who drink, party, etc,etc really aren't true christians. :/ because if they are really truthful that they believe God and all his words and truths, then there would some major change in their lives in accordance to obeying God's rules, not just temporarily, but permanently. To see them still in their previous lifestyle then proves that they are not true christians or they are not taking their commitment seriously. :?
Where does the Bible say, "Thou shalt not drink or party?" I seem to have missed that verse. Funny. But hey, what's a nice little conservative Christian sub-culture cliché here and there, amiright? I find it amusing that someone who hasn't the slightest idea what "truth" entails tosses the word around with gusto. EDIT: CHOW DOWN POPPY, DADDY'S DONE MADE BURGERS. -
Date: Wed, Jul 27 2011 05:33:35
oh, forgive me Surge, if I can't seem to defend myself from such arguments. oh, you truly are correct! My eyes have been opened! Oh, what lies have I been following the past years! Oh Surge, you are quite genius in every way. I applaud you. A cheer! Long live Surge!!! We'll just see. ^^
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Date: Wed, Jul 27 2011 08:38:16
just accept the fact that God/Jesus or any other god isn't real, most of them are just based on the movements of the sun -.- @chrisPS ???? the other religions plagiarize from Egypt, not Egypt plagiarizing from others watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIMFz5ZKDVo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-kvw1fYXs obviously religion is bullshit. It indeed does not say that you shall not drink/party, but the bible states that you should not do any vices that could harm your body because it's the temple of the holy spirit. Most teens drink and party then later on thank god lol wtf WTF fallen angels!?!? hahahahaahhaah it's the other way around, dude. Scientists/Historians claim that if ever Religion is proven to be true, these gods we refer to aren't supposed to be referred to as "gods" or "holy" or "unholy" etc label, they are labelled like that because it is something we see as unearthly, where as in their planet it could probably be normal. Rama could probably be an alien; it was said in the ramayana that there was aerial war(?) and Rama was blue. Most religions have similar looking gods; ie with wings, horns, halo, tails / animal looking, etc. Scientists/Historians say that they could probably be aliens which are only referred to as gods because we dont usually see them. The pyramids of giza, aztec temples, stone henge, couldn't have been possibly made by only humans, they sure as hell were made by aliens. In Columbia there are 15k y/o antiques/sculptures of astronauts, rocketships, airplanes, heck even an airport on a plateau. The crop circles were proven hoaxes in the 1970s but I don't think they really were hoaxes. Of course it would've been a hoax because it's easy to make crop circles, but million years ago? I don't think so. But I still don't believe Religion because if God was real, I wouldn't be living hell right now, everyone should have been living a perfect life, it wouldn't be hard for God to do that because he's a GOD, therefor has all the power and time in the world because he's 100% not HUMAN, but 100% GOD
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Date: Thu, Jul 28 2011 02:22:58
Clyde wrote: The Bible is bullshit, as well as other religions since most are only copied/plagiarized from Egypt. Science is indeed inaccurate at times, especially when it comes to shit that are billion years old, but it's more reliable than this "God/Jesus" horse shit. People keep saying that God doesn't have all the time in the world to answer our prayers, can't listen to everyone at once etc etc. Why? Is he HUMAN? NO. He's a GOD, right? So if he's a GOD, he shouldn't have any trouble granting everyone's prayers. My belief though is if God was real, he'd just be sitting there fapping to Mary Magdalene porn or fucking Mama Mary and not giving a fuck about anyone because he's God, he wouldn't get any benefit by helping us. I just think it's impossible for the biblical god/God/Yahweh to be real since the stories of the Bible are exactly the same as it was interpreted in Egypt, just different names, but as for the events, miracles, all are the same. Also, how about heaven and hell? The Bible says it's in the skies/clouds or just paradise after you die, and hell is in the deepest part of the Earth or just eternal suffering. What would happen to aliens? What if there are no animals/trees in their planet? what if there are no clouds? So this means that the biblical God only has power on Earth? not on other planets? Does this mean aliens just experience nothingness? Sorry, religion really is bullshit and contradicting science too much. Science even discovered how Moses did his miracles(if ever he is real)
You sound like you're getting pretty worked up about something you're sure doesn't exist. Just saying. A lot of your questions can be answered by basic knowledge of Christianity, and if you were genuinely interested then you would look up some of these things on your own. I don't see how Christianity contradicts science. They're not meant to answer the same questions, yet people keep pitting them against each other. -
Date: Thu, Jul 28 2011 04:52:09
Tialys wrote: They're not meant to answer the same questions, yet people keep pitting them against each other.
lol science is meant to answer EVERY question ... I 100% agree that they're not mutually exclusive though EDIT: lol as a debater I can soooo appreciate the tailored bullshit spewing from Surge ahahaha, same stuff I used to do -
Date: Thu, Jul 28 2011 08:03:10
idk sun = horus horus = dionysus dionysus = jesus jesus = plagiarized, new testament = fake and why is there always a trinity? ziz behemoth leviathan jesus god holy spirit horus amon ra isis odin thor loki zeus hades poseidon ? coincidence? no, different interpretations of gods, mostly based on the movements of the sun, so keep praying, the only way god/jesus is real is if chuck norris turns gay
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Date: Wed, Nov 2 2011 02:10:12
I think people really have to change their attitudes when regarding religion. Theist should strive to should for truth based on logic and understanding. Atheist should stop treating religion as some sort of joke. Most of you are already doing that, and thats fantastic but some of you arnt. In a proper debate, people wouldnt be swearing or making jokes about chuck norris etc. But ill place my thoughts here. Ill just reason why I think its possible for faith to be reasonable. I think faith and science are also trying to fight each other. I think both are necessary aspects of life. Science is great. Its led to great discoveries, helped people, and has led to great insight on the universe. Religion and faith (well some) are also great. It sets a moral standard for humans to live by, has led to sources of the need to help of many people, and also has led to great insight on the universe. At the flip side Science has also created great destruction sometimes in the wrong hands. The nuclear bombs, dangerous weapons. etc Religion has also created misfotune in the wrong hands. Terrorist attacks, people who misused the crusades and people who misused the spanish inquisition. etc ======================= Therefore, I dont think its a matter of who creates the most benneifits or who has created the most wrongs. Science however, is limited on only what we can measure. Simply put, if we all happened to be blind, then I think it might have been impossible to discover things like radio waves, x rays etc. Originally, these were concepts and entities that we could not measure naturally. However, because it so happens humans are able to see light, a small portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, we were able to deduce xrays, radio waves, microwaves, uv rays. Funilly enough these waves, which we cannot see, taste, touch or smell are used everyday and are very important and we know they exist. Blind people also use these concepts everyday. However, they only get these bennefits because they have listened and believed what they have been told even though they have never seen other people in their entire lives. They originally had to just "trust" other people, and now they might use these waves everyday to cook, to go on the internet and so fourth to bennefit themselves. Therefore I personally believe there are things that exist which cannot be measured. I believe that humans arnt the ultimate measuring tool in the universe. Humans are so limited. We are like 4 year olds stuck in a house who can do all they can to deduce and understand things aroudn them. However, becaues they are only 4 years old, and young, its impossible (well...its very very very hard) for them to understand things like advanced quantm mechanics. They have to listen to their parents first, and explanation and understanding will come later. Some things we have to extrapolate and somethigns we have to trust and have faith. So thats my defence for believing in God against people who have problem with faith. As for why I believe in my certain faith, is a different question and would travel history, logic and reasoning. Somethign of which I am still searching to understand fully and perhaps I wish to share with you at a later time. For the time being, yes be critical. yes at times be skeptical. You should be skeptical of many things. However search things with open minds, not with a "religion is a joke laught at its face and swear" mindset and let your emotions get in the way. You'll never get anywhere with that.
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Date: Wed, Nov 2 2011 02:42:05
I agree with the person above me^^ The only thing is, i think religion is a beautiful thing. bringing forth people together in positive, non-violent ways, teaching good, etc. (most religions apply to this i believe) I am atheist, but I highly respect people who are religious. Other atheists need to respect religious people, as in they should respect in what other people believe in. this also goes for religious people, who also have to respect the fact that people have the right to believe in what they want to believe in. in english, respect other people's opinion/belief :D this thread has "lets start drama" written all over it >_<
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Date: Wed, Nov 2 2011 02:51:39
neoknux is my hero
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Date: Wed, Feb 1 2012 17:38:22
I'm atheist, and here i'll post a reason what i think religion is really for (me and my friend thought of it too). Not sure if this has been posted, i'm not going to read all the previous posts. I'm atheist so i don't believe in god and have no religion. Which lead me to think, if none of these are true then why are there religions? Well, what i think is that long time ago, there is an organisation of people, who have seen how dark the world can be, and from that want to create peace. Now, how to do that? Pretty tough to cause peace worldwide. Well, faith and beliefs is a major part in many people's life. If faith can be manipulated in such a way to create peace, then lots of people will start to follow. So this organisation of people wanted to create a story of god, and jesus, these stories will in turn be passed down and people would believe because they would have faith, and in turn, a religion and bible is formed. So what i think the truth behind all these stories about jesus are staged, everyone single one of it is played by actors. The virgin mary? An actor, the sick people miraculously healed by jesus? Another actor. The people who put jesus on that crucifix and killed him? Actors, which explains how jesus "reserecuted". Everything was perfectly staged and bystanders saw it believed and passed stories down through generation. So what i think is that, everything jesus has done, is an act, an act to get people to believe. And so, this organisation of people got the actors to create a religion (not sure if this is the true story of how Christianity was formed) and create a bible. So from this, lots of people believed it because it lead them to think how the world was created and it must be by an all-powerfull being, god. So they became Christians and followed the path of Jesus and live a good life and treat others how they would want to be treated. So this is how this organisation of people wanted to create peace, by forming a religion so people can have faith and follow the rules of the 10 commandents, so people would life a good life and try not to sin. So that's what i think, i'm not sure if this is an actual theory by a philosopher or if anyone else has thought of it, if it is please notify me.
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Date: Wed, Feb 1 2012 17:42:12
Fuck religion!
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Date: Wed, Feb 1 2012 19:07:07
LOL im atheist to...that doesnt mean i dont believe in any sorta of thinks,neither do i have satanism rituals in my place. i just dont believe in God.i personally dont like people like:"OMG its sunday,im going to church OMG"(fanatic catolics,christans) i respect then as long as then respect me.
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Date: Wed, Feb 1 2012 19:13:40
It's all bullshit. Atheist here as well, diehard at that. I don't have any form of spiritualism or belief in 'higher beings', everything is based on fact and scientific evidence, to me. When we die, we cease to exist, and rot in the ground. So is the inexorable cycle of life. I'm not selfish enough to believe there's more beyond this life. I seek no redemption, and so I know I have to live with my mistakes and make the best out of the only life I'll ever have.
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Date: Thu, Feb 2 2012 01:29:17
That's probably more impressive then if Jesus was the son of god. These people who wrote it seems to be pretty damn smart for being able to make such a popular religion.
Supergirl wrote: I'm atheist, and here i'll post a reason what i think religion is really for (me and my friend thought of it too). Not sure if this has been posted, i'm not going to read all the previous posts. I'm atheist so i don't believe in god and have no religion. Which lead me to think, if none of these are true then why are there religions? Well, what i think is that long time ago, there is an organisation of people, who have seen how dark the world can be, and from that want to create peace. Now, how to do that? Pretty tough to cause peace worldwide. Well, faith and beliefs is a major part in many people's life. If faith can be manipulated in such a way to create peace, then lots of people will start to follow. So this organisation of people wanted to create a story of god, and jesus, these stories will in turn be passed down and people would believe because they would have faith, and in turn, a religion and bible is formed. So what i think the truth behind all these stories about jesus are staged, everyone single one of it is played by actors. The virgin mary? An actor, the sick people miraculously healed by jesus? Another actor. The people who put jesus on that crucifix and killed him? Actors, which explains how jesus "reserecuted". Everything was perfectly staged and bystanders saw it believed and passed stories down through generation. So what i think is that, everything jesus has done, is an act, an act to get people to believe. And so, this organisation of people got the actors to create a religion (not sure if this is the true story of how Christianity was formed) and create a bible. So from this, lots of people believed it because it lead them to think how the world was created and it must be by an all-powerfull being, god. So they became Christians and followed the path of Jesus and live a good life and treat others how they would want to be treated. So this is how this organisation of people wanted to create peace, by forming a religion so people can have faith and follow the rules of the 10 commandents, so people would life a good life and try not to sin. So that's what i think, i'm not sure if this is an actual theory by a philosopher or if anyone else has thought of it, if it is please notify me.