UPSB v4
Advanced Tricks / [concept] bakarounds vs forarounds
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Date: Sun, Sep 2 2012 00:14:56
I have been getting into discussions about this in the sb and there has been some confusion over it so I made a video explaining (what I think is/should be called) forarounds. http://youtube.com/watch?v=3yaFrNSoXDg
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Date: Sun, Sep 2 2012 09:27:53
Backaround refers to the around going near the knuckle. Bak refers to an FL Around Rev that goes towards the back of the finger. When it comes to new tricks we don't use those legacy terms, so I'm guessing you haven't heard of PD (Palm down) arouns and their reverses. Simply the around rev done palm down would be what you would describe as a foraround. Pay attention to Vicgotgame's second video in this video, because the first is NOT an around. [video=youtube;ujxQN1TS7tE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujxQN1TS7tE[/video]
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Date: Mon, Sep 3 2012 20:42:53
For some reason i just don't think an around's name should change because of the palm side it was executed with. Any around can be executed palm up, down, or sideways. A bakaround is generally executed palm down but it's still called a bakaround. In the video it was said that fingerarounds were easy unless they were done palm down so it's then called a palmdown around. So that would mean that, let's say, if a bust was performed palm up then that would change its name to a palmup around because its difficulty was increased from the palm side execution? Also, a shadow is significantly harder when done palm up, but it's still called a shadow. So why should the palm side change the name of tricks if it doesn't with any other type of trick? For example if you do a sonic palm up you would generally just keep the name as "sonic x-x". Unless you really wanted them to know that you did the sonic palm up you would say "(PU) sonic x-x". Which brings me to my other point of how other tricks are classified. Just about every other trick is named based on the charge it's executed with. For example if i said "sonic" or "shadow" you would know that they both use a normal charge to be executed with unless you change the charge direction which makes it a different variation of the trick to "reverse sonic" or "reverse shadow". Like you said, "Backaround refers to the around going near the knuckle". So that means that that around was also named based on the charge direction. A bakaround could not be a bakaround if it had a normal charge because it would not spin near the knuckle. Tricks should not be named based on palm side because it would leave too many windows open on what trick you really did.
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Date: Tue, Sep 4 2012 16:03:43
There's already a trick for the pen using the opposite spin. It's called indexaround. Even if you do it PD it's still a normal around, people just add the PD, because they find those more difficult.
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Date: Tue, Sep 4 2012 16:36:23
spenpinner wrote: For some reason i just don't think an around's name should change because of the palm side it was executed with. Any around can be executed palm up, down, or sideways. A bakaround is generally executed palm down but it's still called a bakaround. In the video it was said that fingerarounds were easy unless they were done palm down so it's then called a palmdown around. So that would mean that, let's say, if a bust was performed palm up then that would change its name to a palmup around because its difficulty was increased from the palm side execution? Also, a shadow is significantly harder when done palm up, but it's still called a shadow. So why should the palm side change the name of tricks if it doesn't with any other type of trick? For example if you do a sonic palm up you would generally just keep the name as "sonic x-x". Unless you really wanted them to know that you did the sonic palm up you would say "(PU) sonic x-x". Which brings me to my other point of how other tricks are classified. Just about every other trick is named based on the charge it's executed with. For example if i said "sonic" or "shadow" you would know that they both use a normal charge to be executed with unless you change the charge direction which makes it a different variation of the trick to "reverse sonic" or "reverse shadow". Like you said, "Backaround refers to the around going near the knuckle". So that means that that around was also named based on the charge direction. A bakaround could not be a bakaround if it had a normal charge because it would not spin near the knuckle. Tricks should not be named based on palm side because it would leave too many windows open on what trick you really did.
Backaround does not simply refer to an around near the knuckle. Arounds already exist, and in most cases palm side does not change the name of the trick. In obvious cases, such as a palm spin x#, it does change. The modifier for palm side isn't for when you 'really want to know' but rather, when the position of execution of the trick requires a relative hand position. In some cases a palm modifier may be used for a whole segment of a combo to show that it is being done palm down. Backaround is not named as such because of palm side, but because of the motion required to do it. If you look to the history of the backaround it was initially done towards the base of the finger, on the back of the hand. An argument can and has been made that korean backarounds are not "real" baks. The word around comes from the fact that it goes around the finger. You can do bakarounds from charges, and reverse backarounds from charge reverses, and you can do normal arounds from charges and normal reverse arounds from reverse charges. You can also put your palm down and do the same. However, a backaround does not depend upon the "charge" direction, as it does not necessarily use a charge as its push, as a finger-less trick there are multiple ways of executing it, for instance, if you were coming from a charge, you might indicate, through hybrid notation that the push is coming from the initial push of the charge and ending with the latter part of the around. If you wanted to do a normal around, palm down, the push, angle, and therefore trajectory of the pen are different. Surely you can feel it yourself when you preform the tricks. Palm direction modifiers are simply used to convey more detail to the notation, in normal discussion you might use trick names incorrectly and still convey your message if you preform it, but when reading or writing notation it should be clear, as to avoid any confusion as to how the trick is preformed. -
Date: Tue, Sep 4 2012 17:16:27
@shoeman6, thank you for clearing this up for me. :)