UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / Programming languages
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 08:43:18
A general help thread for all languages. Perl Strawberry Perl Python Java C++ etc. Post your projects, your questions, your ideas. Any, and all.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 11:25:59
I'm learning Bash right now, simply because there are a lot of Bash scripts out there and doing clever one-liners is very cool. For example the author of a 4chan-extension offered one for linux users to download all images from a thread to the current folder. Unfortunately it uses wget which isn't available by default on OS X, so I rewrote it slightly and bound it to my launcher I use: [CODE]cd ~/Pictures/4chan; curl -s {query} | grep -Eo 'images.4chan.org/[^"]+' | uniq | xargs -n1 curl -s -O[/CODE] I did something similar for a python script I wrote to dump basic statistics about a skype conversation. Unfortunately the one-liner performed much worse, so I don't use it ._.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 13:15:37
Any advices for someone who may take programming(or other IT-related paths) as a career?
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 13:47:06
Don't do it. Rather become a consultant or sysadmin than a code-monkey.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 14:06:35
Alvaris wrote: Any advices for someone who may take programming(or other IT-related paths) as a career?
study software engineering, you wont have much freedom to program the way you want, you'll have to stick to strict formatting standards and protocols for issue tracking, version control, etc. design patterns and development cycles -
Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 14:30:07
webspider wrote: I'm learning Bash right now, simply because there are a lot of Bash scripts out there and doing clever one-liners is very cool. For example the author of a 4chan-extension offered one for linux users to download all images from a thread to the current folder. Unfortunately it uses wget which isn't available by default on OS X, so I rewrote it slightly and bound it to my launcher I use: [CODE]cd ~/Pictures/4chan; curl -s {query} | grep -Eo 'images.4chan.org/[^"]+' | uniq | xargs -n1 curl -s -O[/CODE] I did something similar for a python script I wrote to dump basic statistics about a skype conversation. Unfortunately the one-liner performed much worse, so I don't use it ._.
Pretty clever, though you fail for using OSX -
Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 15:23:10
I have planned (so far) to do software engineering as I didn't find anything that I was interested enough in but I recently saw sysadmin on reddit somewhere and found it quite interesting. something in IT it is.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 15:50:17
TheAafg wrote: I have planned (so far) to do software engineering as I didn't find anything that I was interested enough in but I recently saw sysadmin on reddit somewhere and found it quite interesting. something in IT it is.
dunno, be careful, things like that sound super interesting till you do it for a year or two and realize you'll be staring at a computer screen for the rest of your life lol, that's what happened with me and high-energy physics, it's a good job during college but if I had to do this forever i'd blow my brains out even though i LOVE the topic, in practice it's just not fun at all -
Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 16:18:29
strat1227 wrote: Pretty clever, though you fail for using OSX
Oh come on, it's less cancerous than having to resort to Windows for photo editing (and occasional gaming) and shares enough core-features I'm used from Linux distributions. However, I'm tinkering around with my netbook to test how well I could cope with abandoning OS X. I'm afraid I'd have to get another laptop because installing something like Gentoo on my MBP will definitely be "adventurous". -
Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 16:22:12
Haha I guess if money is no object for you then that's justification enough to use OSX but if you're not rich then you should be on a win/linux dual boot system lol, just as good as any apple build and half the price haha
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 16:34:53
strat1227 wrote: win/linux dual boot system lol, just as good as any apple build and half the price haha
agreed. -
Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 17:13:33
Since I got the laptop for almost nothing, I don't have any money-bias towards it (besides, only the hardware is overpriced, the OS itself is cheaper than Windows). Dual-booting is quite cancerous (that's why people invented virtual machines, huehuehue), so I hope to avoid it for as long as possible. And then there's the question whether I'd need something as good as my MBP as replacement (or might even settle down for a cheaper desktop in exchange for less mobility) and if yes, whether the alternatives wouldn't be more expensive. Like the Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A except for the slightly worse battery life. All of these issues are the reason why I stick to my current setup.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 17:36:15
Meh dual booting never really affected me any Anyway, only slightly more on topic than the OS discussion, the script I'm running generates 35TB of data, which with our 32mb/s transfer speeds would take 15 days of continuous transfer to bring back to our work servers ... which isn't feasible. so I'm sad.
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Date: Thu, Jul 26 2012 17:41:19
Working on developing a simple firefox extenstion for the next week. trying it with python first.
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Date: Wed, Sep 26 2012 00:29:10
Learning Java Teacher teach so slow Bought a book on Java so I can mess around in class and keep an easy A and free AP credit
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Date: Thu, Sep 27 2012 01:04:11
.
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Date: Thu, Sep 27 2012 02:12:30
strat1227 wrote: dunno, be careful, things like that sound super interesting till you do it for a year or two and realize you'll be staring at a computer screen for the rest of your life lol, that's what happened with me and high-energy physics, it's a good job during college but if I had to do this forever i'd blow my brains out even though i LOVE the topic, in practice it's just not fun at all
honestly wish I saw this post earlier....fuck. Second year of programming here. I have the basics for java and html down. Learned visual basic and am currently learning C. Its fun and really easy but its boring oh my seal tits. I get restless really easily and having to sit in the same position really bothers the shit out of me. (I also move around a lot even when playing LoL or watching a movie) I am in grade 11 and have just realized that programming is something I can do, its easy but its not necessarily something I would want to do. The problem is, i don't know what the fuck else to do. I think it would be cool to be a special forces soldier or something involving the army or protection of people or even politics (I love debates and history etc.) . Parents are totally convinced that I want to become a software engineer....my brother and dad are engineers. I don't want to disappoint my family but what the fuck do I do. -
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2012 02:29:35
Retro-spectre wrote: Listen to this man! I've been programming since I was about 8/9, but it was always a means to an end for me. Programming stood in the way between me and making cool shit. When I graduated high school, I found that I could get paid a pretty penny to do what I did for fun anyways. It's been three or four years of that and I'm sick of it. I decided to go to university and couldn't really decide on a major so I picked comp sci because it would be so easy for me. Before you decide to study it, make sure you know WHY you are studying it. Do you like programming or do you like what it produces? There is virtually no reason to get a bachelors in computer science IMO (at least from the two Unis I've been to). Take as a minor, or double major and choose something else. You can teach yourself comp-sci/programming in your spare time easy enough. I'm in my senior year of university and I've only just realized that all I want to do is study ants, autism or become a doctor. Shit sucks. Unfortunately, everyone knows how to program these days (in my experience, you can teach an engineer/scientist to program very easily, but you can't always teach a programmer engineering/science), so I'm not really needed where I want to be. I work at a small startup right now and get paid lots of money to make cool new stuff, but in the end I'm staring a computer screen for the rest of my life...
Ditto. Welcome back man. -
Date: Thu, Sep 27 2012 20:53:29
comp-sci is basically just a preparatory program for graduate studies... don't enroll if you don't want to do research later. you'll be better served doing software engineering.
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Date: Thu, Sep 27 2012 21:49:03
Also know that programmers and developers get treated like shit in big companies.
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Date: Mon, Oct 1 2012 14:42:18
Computer people in general get treated like shit in big companies. Posted from a fone.
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Date: Mon, Nov 12 2012 04:39:38
welp. currently i'm wondering if i should learn C or java.... i'm sortve learning a bit of both right now, but i kind of want to focus on one right now.
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Date: Mon, Nov 12 2012 04:56:39
Forget about C if you're on Windows.
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Date: Mon, Nov 12 2012 08:30:18
Rozzi wrote: welp. currently i'm wondering if i should learn C or java.... i'm sortve learning a bit of both right now, but i kind of want to focus on one right now.
I would say learn C++ (rather than C) AND Java. That will set you up pretty well. -
Date: Mon, Nov 12 2012 09:02:29
C++ isn't difficult to learn while Java takes a while to learn. Even so, both are useful in their own sense. An extensive background in programming will help you dominate these languages :)
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Date: Mon, Nov 12 2012 13:37:05
kittylilycat wrote: C++ isn't difficult to learn while Java takes a while to learn. Even so, both are useful in their own sense. An extensive background in programming will help you dominate these languages :)
I would say the opposite - An extensive background in these languages, will help you dominate programming. -
Date: Tue, Nov 13 2012 02:40:53
Mats wrote: I would say the opposite - An extensive background in these languages, will help you dominate programming.
Yeah, that actually sounds more valid than what I said. But I guess having an extensive background in both will just dominate -
Date: Wed, Nov 14 2012 04:13:09
ah ok. so C++ should be the way to go first, then Java?
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Date: Wed, Nov 14 2012 05:06:46
Rozzi wrote: ah ok. so C++ should be the way to go first, then Java?
I would honestly start C first then move onto C++ and then java etc. There's no real guideline or order you are supposed to follow but knowing C first should help you understand C++ better...I think. -
Date: Wed, Nov 14 2012 05:12:18
starting with C++ is fine
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 02:23:40
erm. hmm.... so.... guess i'll flip a coin ^_^
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 03:37:25
TheAafg wrote: I would honestly start C first then move onto C++ and then java etc. There's no real guideline or order you are supposed to follow but knowing C first should help you understand C++ better...I think.
I would just start with c++ no point in learning c first unless you want to program in c imo. -
Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 17:21:04
Don't scare the poor girl away by making her learn C/C++ first. And since this is supposed to be about personal projects as well: I've finally set up VCS for my dotfiles and a small project and here's another one I'm working on. It's a general launcher with dmenu as backend that can let you not only launch movies/comics/... with their respective viewers, but also supports launching your favorite rom via retroarch (which also supports everything using libretro, like cave story for example).
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 17:24:06
webspider wrote: Don't scare the poor girl away by making her learn C/C++ first. And since this is supposed to be about personal projects as well: I've finally set up VCS for my dotfiles and a small project and here's another one I'm working on. It's a general launcher with dmenu as backend that can let you not only launch movies/comics/... with their respective viewers, but also supports launching your favorite rom via retroarch (which also supports everything using libretro, like cave story for example).
I learnt C++ first. I don't think it really matters *that* much what you learn first. And nice job with the current work. -
Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 21:34:56
webspider wrote: Don't scare the poor girl away by making her learn C/C++ first. And since this is supposed to be about personal projects as well: I've finally set up VCS for my dotfiles and a small project and here's another one I'm working on. It's a general launcher with dmenu as backend that can let you not only launch movies/comics/... with their respective viewers, but also supports launching your favorite rom via retroarch (which also supports everything using libretro, like cave story for example).
woah! all of that... it's like i'm reading a foregin language O_O i don't really understand it... -
Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 21:39:01
C++ is a um... sub category of C right? so would it make sense to learn C, then C++? or vice versa?
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Date: Sun, Nov 18 2012 21:42:53
Rozzi wrote: C++ is a um... sub category of C right? so would it make sense to learn C, then C++? or vice versa?
You have no idea what you're talking about, so please do not give out advice in this thread. I would suggest very strongly that you flick through the wikipedia articles on C/C++. It will improve your knowledge and I'm sure you will find it quite interesting. -
Date: Tue, Nov 20 2012 00:35:51
Mats wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about, so please do not give out advice in this thread. I would suggest very strongly that you flick through the wikipedia articles on C/C++. It will improve your knowledge and I'm sure you will find it quite interesting.
yesh... i know i don't. But I wasn't giving advice. alright, off to the wiki! -
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 11:44:59
i dint realize there's a thread about this.. i learn visual basic,flash8,c++,html :) and abit of python
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Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 12:21:44
FingerNotPen wrote: i dint realize there's a thread about this.. i learn visual basic,flash8,c++,html :) and abit of python
For the last time ever, stop bumping old threads. -
Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 12:39:40
lol but then if he makes a new thread then people will say "there is a thread for this" btw Java sucks.
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Date: Sat, Dec 29 2012 14:06:08
[QUOTE='[TGN];240583']For the last time ever, stop bumping old threads.[/QUOTE] The thread is only 1 month old. It's hardly an epic thread revival. Oh and it seems I now have to learn Java, to make mobile apps for Android? Why can't you use something other than Java for doing that? :facepalm:
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Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 00:33:54
@TGN haha. i told you , sometimes dont be so pathetic correcting peoples mistakes... idiot..
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Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 01:07:27
Mats wrote: The thread is only 1 month old. It's hardly an epic thread revival. Oh and it seems I now have to learn Java, to make mobile apps for Android? Why can't you use something other than Java for doing that? :facepalm:
Point taken. I won't argue with @Mats. My impression towards him has not change though. Maybe Mats you should have a look at his posts. Perhaps that will give you an idea of why I'm a little irked. -
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 01:29:07
[QUOTE='[TGN];240662']Point taken. I won't argue with @Mats. My impression towards him has not change though. Maybe Mats you should have a look at his posts. Perhaps that will give you an idea of why I'm a little irked.[/QUOTE] Do you mean posts such as the one directly above yours?
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Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 01:48:20
Mats wrote: Do you mean posts such as the one directly above yours?
Nope. He can insult me all he want. But he sometimes makes posts that don't contribute and come across as spam. -
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 06:01:52
FingerNotPen wrote: @TGN haha. i told you , sometimes dont be so pathetic correcting peoples mistakes... idiot..
You suck. -
Date: Sun, Dec 30 2012 06:32:30
LOL?
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Date: Mon, Dec 31 2012 00:10:39
Mats wrote: The thread is only 1 month old. It's hardly an epic thread revival. Oh and it seems I now have to learn Java, to make mobile apps for Android? Why can't you use something other than Java for doing that? :facepalm:
http://xamarin.com/monoforandroid not sure if it works learning LOLCODE and Brainfuck. But seriously, Java. -
Date: Sun, Feb 17 2013 09:17:33
does anyone know how to format this code for avisynth http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Subtitle i want the subtitles to only be in frame range 0-200 but its not working AviSource("F:\166.avi") scriptclip("counter(current_frame)") #scriptclip("counter(framecount-current_frame)") return last part1=Trim(0, 200) function counter(clip clip, int n) { n = n / clip.framerate() min = int(n / 60) mins = string(min) mins = min < 10 ? "0" + mins : mins n = n - min * 60 sec = int(n) secs = string(sec) secs = sec < 10 ? "0" + secs : secs #time = mins + ":" + secs clip.subtitle(mins + ":" + secs, x=10, y=10, font="frutiger", size=48) }
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Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 11:35:29
Hi, I want to know how many programming languages are there at present?? If not determined exactly, I need an approximate count. Can anyone display atleast 25 programming languages?? Share it as soon as possible...
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Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 13:10:52
apvkt wrote: Hi, I want to know how many programming languages are there at present?? If not determined exactly, I need an approximate count. Can anyone display atleast 25 programming languages?? Share it as soon as possible...
Off the top of my head: General purpose languages: (I would consider these to be what you're probably looking for. You can do almost anything in these languages) C C++ BASIC Python C# Java D Fortran Ada PERL LISP Eiffel Algol Smalltalk Pascal Scripting/other languages: (Not as much function as a general purpose language. Usually written to fit a specific task.) Javascript Lua HTML CSS SQL Unrealscript Okay, I could only think of 21 off the top of my head... :facepalm: And how many are there in total? My bet would be that in use today, probably several thousand... Most of which you won't really see, because they will be used in labs or other environments such as those or are scripting languages specific to one program. The list I threw out probably covers a great deal of the coding that is done world-wide. -
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 16:26:02
actionscript for my flash
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Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 16:35:30
exclusive wrote: actionscript for my flash
Is it actually not actually called Actionscript3 now? -
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 18:07:00
apvkt wrote: Hi, I want to know how many programming languages are there at present?? If not determined exactly, I need an approximate count. Can anyone display atleast 25 programming languages?? Share it as soon as possible...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages -
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 18:58:19
IAmTheMrGuy wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages
Looks like a pretty incomplete list! Perhaps they should more call it 'List of programming languages that are either 1) Popular or 2) Unpopular, but someone has taken the time to add them here.' -
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2013 23:41:41
Anyone actively using Mathematica now?
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Date: Thu, Mar 14 2013 00:44:10
Mats wrote: Is it actually not actually called Actionscript3 now?
i guess havent used it in 2 yrs -
Date: Thu, Mar 14 2013 01:19:40
Mats wrote: Looks like a pretty incomplete list! Perhaps they should more call it 'List of programming languages that are either 1) Popular or 2) Unpopular, but someone has taken the time to add them here.'
He did ask for a list of programming languages -
Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 03:27:50
AP Computer Science A exam. I need help preparing for it. My teacher is just teaching Java stuff that helps us to program and not what is on the AP exam. The stuff covered in the exam is located here The stuff I really need help is with the super small stuff; Exceptions and Exception handling, inheritance, static methods, ArrayList
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Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 03:35:38
fuck wrong thread can someone delete this post I accidentally thought it was this thread
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Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 04:47:19
i'm learning java :P
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Date: Mon, Mar 25 2013 05:03:28
I learn C Programming language. If you are an android user an is IT Savvy, you should know CyanogenMod. I am one of the team members Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
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Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 07:17:50
@MightAsWellGG If you want help you should probably ask specific questions. There are plenty of tutorials on that shit on the net and it's unlikely people here could write a better tutorial tailored to you with the information you've given.
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Date: Fri, Mar 29 2013 11:21:02
Timbo wrote: @MightAsWellGG If you want help you should probably ask specific questions. There are plenty of tutorials on that shit on the net and it's unlikely people here could write a better tutorial tailored to you with the information you've given.
QFT! Good point Timbo. -
Date: Tue, May 7 2013 23:15:32
I ended up not asking any questions because I realized that I didn't know enough of the concepts that I could actually figure out my weaknesses, so I studied a sheet some other student made a while ago with small aspects regarding the Java language (e.g. when using System.out.println() to print numbers and strings, do mathematics until you reach a string => System.out.println(8+3+"hello") prints "11hello" Then I took a practice exam using that knowledge and learned a couple more minor aspects, like how floating point numbers have inaccuracies at some extent then I took the exam today, and it was okay
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Date: Wed, May 8 2013 01:18:35
MinoochX wrote: I learn C Programming language. If you are an android user an is IT Savvy, you should know CyanogenMod. I am one of the team members Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
The team doesn't recommend using Titianium backup with CM. that makes me sad :( -
Date: Wed, Jul 24 2013 17:44:10
I'm learning Java and Python (and HTML+CSS). I tend to prefer Python because of it's easy syntax and the language is better to write Linux applications and scripts.
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Date: Tue, Nov 12 2013 13:14:55
Alright men, here me out. I'm looking for a language just to do general scripted shit. Stuff like pulling data from webpages and maybe parsing it and just displaying things. I'm fairly sure Perl can do this but I'm aware that Perl syntax is generally thought of as terrible. Can python do this ok? I'm coming from ASM, C, C++, Java background. Holler back at me.
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Date: Tue, Nov 12 2013 14:10:46
Timbo wrote: Alright men, here me out. I'm looking for a language just to do general scripted shit. Stuff like pulling data from webpages and maybe parsing it and just displaying things. I'm fairly sure Perl can do this but I'm aware that Perl syntax is generally thought of as terrible. Can python do this ok? I'm coming from ASM, C, C++, Java background. Holler back at me.
yeah python is for you. Python isnt really hard to pick up and its pretty useful if you're going into data mining. -
Date: Wed, Nov 13 2013 13:21:23
Looks like I'll be diving into python soon then. Thanks.
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Date: Sun, Nov 17 2013 11:30:14
@ChainBreak: Since you dislike both Racket and Java for not having Python-like syntax, what do you think of pyret? It's made by the creators of Scheme (who have created bazillions of programming languages for fun) and looks to me like a mixture of Racket, Python, Ruby and ML. Pattern matching is a quite cool feature, less boiler plate for new data structures, too. Not to forget optional annotations. I'm not sure about the test support. But it's a fairly new programming language, so they'll surely iron out things in the future. @thread: I find it funny there's no love for the functional languages. We've got on the one hand the ML-likes which focus on type systems and parsing, such as SML, OCaml, F# and Haskell, on the other the entire Lisp family focused on simplicity (with Scheme, Common Lisp, Emacs-Lisp and Clojure being the major corner stones). I've come to hate side effects because it makes testing more complicated and finally understand why there's so many parentheses in your average Lisp program. The other thing that led me to those would be books like SICP, Emacs (because it's in its own league when it comes to text manipulation) and the cool things you can do with the numerous variants floating around. For example people can program games you'd usually use C for in a compiled Scheme or Common Lisp variant (mocl for example targets iOS and Android). I'm favoring Chicken (I'm not unbiased though because I've met its creator at FrOSCon 2013) for that task as it allows you to do lots of tweaking and wraps existing C libraries easily. For education there's Racket with its JIT-compiler and IDE. PicoLisp takes minimalism to another level, Shen abandons most traditional Lisp aspects and somehow fuses both ML and Lisp. Common Lisp gives you lots of the things you'd need for commercial development. And Clojure turns the JVM into something you can work with without having to resort to Eclipse. People create not only web services with it, but also program music. In real time. I really have to investigate this particular topic because DAWs are freaking me out, but at the moment I'm busy understanding Emacs Lisp to customize that editing environment to my likings.
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Date: Sun, Nov 17 2013 12:46:16
I'm on the fence whether to learn vim or not. It just seems like so many shortcuts that are taking up space in my brain that I could be using for other stuff. Also, thanks for the advice ;).
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Date: Sun, Nov 17 2013 14:24:34
@Timbo: Vim and Emacs are the two text editors you should consider using, no matter whether for code or prose. They're simply lightyears ahead of the rest. Vim is famous for its modal model that makes you switch between contexts while editing. The other distinguishing feature is that this modal approach is combined with some sort of "language" which means that once you know the grammar, you can use that knowledge in all other contexts. That cuts down the learning significantly, but you still need to practice a lot to get proficient in it. It's on pretty much any unix-like system around there, so I can always edit text on these boxes in a fast and efficient manner. Emacs has completely different goals. It started off as part of the GNU project intended for people who don't like modal editing. Thanks to its design you can extend it almost endlessly, some people even live in Emacs and use it for everything they do on their computer (except browsing maybe). That means that the goal of using Emacs is creating your own favourite editing environment with it. I for example didn't like that Vim doesn't lend itself as well for turning it into an IDE, but like its keybindings a lot, so I'm using Emacs at the moment at home with these keybinds and Vim for remote editing. This was written with GVim FYI.
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Date: Mon, Nov 18 2013 10:59:09
Well I'm going to be doing a lot of programming over the break hopefully so I guess I'll force myself to use vim. Any advice to get started? What are the five or six most important shortcuts? When I use it every now and then all I really know is x to delete, i/a for insertion/appending, hjkl for navigation, shift+j for concatenating lines, G for going to a certiain line and f for finding a character. Should I just keep learning shortcuts one at a time like that?
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Date: Mon, Nov 18 2013 18:28:24
Use vimtutor at the beginning, create your own cheatsheet, read the inbuilt help. Maybe read articles like this (it's the answer to a similiar question) or that one. It takes time and lots of practice, not memorizing keystrokes. By the end of learning you'll probably hate all other text editors, so beware.
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Date: Mon, Nov 18 2013 22:50:02
webspider wrote: By the end of learning you'll probably hate all other text editors, so beware.
Is it because vim has a bunch of shortcuts to completing tasks easier than on other text editors? like deleting multiple lines of text or several subsequent words -
Date: Tue, Nov 19 2013 06:22:40
Just read the first article I've linked. It explains the nature of vim quite well (I wish somebody wrote a similiar one on Emacs). It's not even shortcuts since most of the time you aren't even pressing modifier keys, just hitting single keys as if it were stepmania (though stepmania just uses four keys instead of the entire QWERTY keyboard). That level of editing is a lot more effective than anything else I've seen. Though Emacs comes quite close to your perception of more effective shortcuts or let's just say, chords. Watching somebody use it reminds me of piano players.