UPSB v4
Serious Discussion / UPSB PF Debate #1
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 02:22:00
Topic: The costs of a college education outweigh the benefits. @ChainBreak will be arguing "con" (that the topic is false) You both post 700 (max) word comments to this thread with your initial arguments. After both are posted, you have 48 hours to post 700 word (max) rebuttals (that don't introduce new arguments, only address your opponent's arguments) After that you'll both post 300 word (max) conclusions. Do both parties agree?
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 02:55:43
I agree.
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 02:56:35
I'll judge the round. Make sure you rebut all of each other's arguments, a weak argument that goes unchallenged will be scored higher than a strong one that gets rebutted. Evidence (statistics and other proof) can be used to BACK UP arguments, but not in lieu of arguments (meaning if someone logically explains why a point is right, the other person can't just throw a stat out as a rebuttal, they can use a stat INSIDE of an argument). If both sides use reasonable logic, and only one side has a stat, they'll be scored higher. Any other questions? :)
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 03:22:18
Mod Edit: Let's wait for the discussion thread to talk about it ;)
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 03:24:24
Whoadie wrote: **************
Lol then why not include this in an argument .... Either way, there will be discussion threads AFTER the debaters complete the debate, until then let's not influence them ;) -
Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 03:32:57
Oh, sorry. I did not mean to influence the debate.
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 14:31:55
K so till when should I write it? edit: Agreed btw
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Date: Fri, Apr 27 2012 18:19:11
First posts are due 72 hours from now :) @ChainBreak
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Date: Mon, Apr 30 2012 19:14:22
@ChainBreak you both agreed to do this, need arguments!!
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Date: Mon, Apr 30 2012 19:17:23
Huh? Oh it's been 3 days already. Sorry didn't notice because I was busy preparing for my exams. I'll upload asap. edit: [SPOILER="Contra argumentation"]UPSB-Debate #1 Theme: The costs of a college education outweigh the benefits. Contra side To start this argumentation I will first present the topic of equipment in educational institutions. A very major problem in German universities is the lack of proper equipment that are needed for advanced studies. Especially the sciences often rely on the accuracy and reliability or measuring instrument to be able to derive knowledge from the measurements. As I am taking an advanced course in physics I know that to approve mathematically calculated formulas always have to be affirmed with proper experiments. In school it's still not as important, because the knowledge has already been approved by other scientist that have the resources for proper equipment, but in higher educational institutions where new discoveries are to be made this kind of inaccurate measurements cannot be allowed. The most striking example would be the speed of neutrinos. In CERN there have been measurements to prove that the speed of light can be surpassed, but later on scientist found there was a mistake in the measurements due to defects of the measurement instruments. With this example we can see the importance of accurate measurements and proper equipment to be able to gain new knowledge and make new discoveries. However higher educational institutions often lack the funds to be able to cover the fees needed for accurate instruments. With college fees this problem could be solved to a certain degree. New and high class instruments could lead to more institutions able to make important discoveries in different fields in science and thus accelerate the advancements in technology. But this is not the only use that college fees can have. The educational institutions in general could be kept a lot cleaner and more services could be provided for the students to assist them in their education. This could range from proper food to clean toilets, more residential accommodations along with more advantages. These advantages however are not just to make the life of college students more comfortable. A clean and comfortable environment will help the students relax in their free time so they can properly concentrate on their studies. If they don't have to worry as much about proper food and clean residential areas they will be able to concentrate more on their studies and thus be able to perform better. The most important use for college fees for me however is the proper education of the students. Here in Germany basically anyone with an Abitur (similar to the American A-Level) can become a teacher at a higher educational institution. So while the more capable people are hired by companies to improve the technology used to sell products there are barely enough left to make the more important advances in science. Of course the jobs at companies are much more attractive to these people, because they get a better payment, they are provided a better work environment and overall have a more luxurious life than those that chose to stay at college or university to teach. If there are college fees however the educational jobs will possibly be more attractive to the very capable people, because they are provided a good work environment, a decent pay and most and important the possibility to extend not only their own knowledge, but also the knowledge of the whole world. There would be more and more capable people working to achieve such knowledge with the increase of the number of higher educational institutions that have fees. So the college fees would not only benefit the students directly by providing a good environment and proper equipment, but also very capable people teaching them and the advantage of experiencing more advanced forms of science. These experiences could help to help people understand newer discoveries better and an increased number of people capable of working on new scientific knowledge.[/SPOILER] I'm not sure if I got the topic right. I mainly focused on the point of college fees and their advantages. This belongs to the costs of education at college so I thought it would be a good starting point. ;)
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Date: Tue, May 1 2012 19:28:25
Is there going to be anything happening here? @strat1227
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Date: Tue, May 1 2012 20:16:03
@King you have 18 hours to submit before you're disqualified
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Date: Wed, May 2 2012 01:03:57
Sorry D: An NPR host, Korva Coleman has stated “College doesn’t always get you a job, but it will almost always give you debt.” According to American Student Assistance, the average cumulative debt of a college graduate student has reached $40,297. $40 thousand dollars of debt does not seem like a great way to start of any career. I stand in strong affirmation to the resolution: The costs of a college education outweigh the benefits for the following two contentions; 1) With the job market of today, there is no longer a guarantee of finding a job after college. 2) The only route to a beneficial outcome of a college education is coming from a rich family. For this debate round, I will be be using data from American colleges. (Sorry if ChainBreak is from somewhere else) As any person who pays any attention to the economy of today, they will observe that our job market is not as stable as it used to be. Our parents generation may have been able to land a job right out of college, but now, it is not so simple. According to an article in USA Today, the unemployment rate for college graduate students is at its highest since the 1970s. Obviously, the plan to pay off the debt from student loans when you graduate don't succeed when you don't have a stable income. Yes, the average college graduate may have a higher income than people who have not, but that average college graduate will have to pay off the staggeringly high $23,200 (NY times) of debt at the end of their college career that is caused by student loans, which in turn will take a considerably large amount of their yearly/monthly income. So, sure, if you’re 1% of the population with the amount of money to pay through college without aid from loans, you will benefit from graduating college. In conclusion, the cost of college in America will undoubtedly outweigh the benefits according to the mass majority of America. Vote affirmative. [SPOILER="Sources"]http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/default.aspx http://www.savingforcollege.com/tutorial101/the_real_cost_of_higher_education.php http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2010-12-06-collegegrads06_ST_N.htm http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/debt/[/SPOILER]
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Date: Wed, May 2 2012 17:36:17
@ChainBreak good job guys, thanks for submitting your first arguments :) now you have 4 days to post 700 words (max) refuting your opponent's arguments
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Date: Sun, May 6 2012 08:11:34
@ChainBreak 24 hours to get your rebuttals in :)
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Date: Fri, May 11 2012 01:35:56
@ChainBreak are either of you even remotely interested in finishing this debate?
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Date: Fri, May 11 2012 19:47:20
I am. But unfortunately I lack the time to find arguments against King's. :(